Fitment if camber plate, shock, and spring upper perch.

[AydinZ71]

Hi all, and happy thanksgiving! 
 

I am assembling the rear strut assembly now, and I’m very anxious to make sure I don’t make a mistake here. Here is the part list:

 

1) silvermine motors camber plate. Bolt-in type, no cutting or welding necessary. This was important to meet SCCA production class rules.

 

2) Koni 8610 1437RACE

 

3) ground control coilovers with 10” Eibach 300lb springs.

 

the camber plate came with some bushings. I have one bushing on the bottom, and the upper bushing seems to screw onto the shock end which not only centers the shock into the camber plate bearing, but also tightens to plate onto the shock. I’m presuming the upper spring perch from ground control then sits flush on the bottom of the camber plate? 
 

I attached some pictures and videos to help illustrate. I thank you all in advance again for all your help! I can see this thing being put together is several different ways so I thought I would check with the community  

[jhm]

Ideally, you don't want any non-fitted metal-to-metal contact in the system....looks like you may have some of that occurring between the top hat and the lower face of the camber plate?  It's not as critical in the rear suspension, where there's minimal twisting of the strut/spring as the suspension articulates through it's range of motion....but a definite no-no in the front, which is constantly twisting due to the simple act of steering the car. 

 

That's one issue with this style of camber plate, which doesn't have an integrated spring top hat in the design like some of the other bolt-in camber plates.  You can mitigate the interference by inserting a thrust washer in between the top hat and the camber plate; just remember that any additional hardware length you add is reducing potential suspension range of travel.  The OEM thrust bearing in the front stock strut setup is very durable, but fairly thick when compared to some of the ultra-thin thrust bearings available aftermarket. 

 

Try it this way, and see if it's a problem.  It may work just fine for your purposes.  If it turns out to be problematic, there are some other tricks you can try (e.g. T3 makes a nice 2.5" top hat that has a thin integrated thrust bearing in it's design).  https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/260z/camber-plate-upper-hat-system-datsun-260z

 

When piecing together coilovers (or any major system in the car) from different parts and vendors, there's always experimentation and testing required to find the right combination that works for you.  I actually enjoy that process, because you're kind of making something out of nothing.  Good luck with it.

[JMortensen]

That top hat from T3 won't pivot with the strut as it changes angle, so it will allow for the strut to twist as you're steering, but I fear you're going to really chew through the threads on the coilover sleeves even more than they normally do.

The other solution is an adapter between the top hat and the monoball which allows the top hat to follow the angle of the strut, and uses the monoball to twist. Arizonazcar.com has a part that fits the bill, the silver bit in this picture: http://www.arizonazcar.com/coilover.html

 

 

 

Last option is the Ground Control setup. They don't have any pictures of the important bit on their site, but there is a steel concave cup part which rides on a needle bearing like the T3 setup, and then an aluminum ball section that rides in the steel cup, and this allows the spring to change angle with the strut. It also turns the camber plate into a wear item, but it's what I have. https://groundcontrolstore.com/collections/s30-camber-plates/products/camber-caster-plate-z-car-pair

[AydinZ71]

Thanks guys!! I will give ground control and Arizona Z a call on Monday and see if they are willing to sell those parts separately. 

I think I see what you mean. The coilover top perch (i believe you both refer to this as the top-hat?) will be applying force to the bottom of the camber plate, so it will not slide horizontally due to static friction. Then, as the suspension travels the shock will angle ever so slightly, but will be allowed to do so thanks to the teflon ball bearing. However, the spring perch will not, so the spring and shock will momentarily be forced out of concentricity, which will cause lateral strain. Do I have it right? That arizonaz bushing looks like it forces concentricity between the teflon bearing and the coilover top hat. I do see the likelihood of the top hat shock hole "striking" the shock rod itself (laterally) as the suspension travels. Its about 1/32" oversized relative to the shock rod OD (would not be a problem if it was a tighter fit). However, this striking is not along the length of the shock and would be occurring in the same place, pretty far up the strut rod and away from anywhere it may need to pass through the shock seals/bearings. 

 

How about a 1/16"-1/8" sheet of teflon between the top hat and the camber plate bottom surface? Teflon cold-flows, so it should "give" in the direction of strain which would take the stress of the AL & steel. It should also allow the top hat to "slide" laterally relative to the camber plate. Just an alternative idea. PU is stiffer, but I believe it has too high of a static friction coefficient to allow the top hat to "slide".

 

Honestly, I would have rather bought the T3 or ground control camber plates, but both seemed to me to require cutting of the unibody which is not acceptable to SCCA production class. It has to be a true "bolt-in" solution utilizing the same means of attachment (unibody holes). I also agree that without enlarging/slotting the center strut hole on the unibody, I cant get much camber adjustment. Looks like I can only offset 3/8" or so to add negative camber. One idea here is to test drive the car and make the dampening adjustment. Then, "tuck" the shock adjustment valve under the mounting surface using a spacer between the unibody and camber plate. This would lower the adjustment valve low enough to not "strike" the unibody and allow further adjustment. 

 

Hope ya'll are OK with me geeking out on this so much. I may be over-thinking this. 

[tube80z]

I'd also recommend torrington bearings under the spring seats (top and bottom).  Those will help front and rear as the suspension moves through it's range and they will allow the spring to rotate torsionally as it's compressed extended.  I'm also not sure why there isn't more of a spacer on your camber plate to top hot that moves the load to the bearing.  That's the silver bit Jon mentions.  If you still end up needing more camber than you can get from all the adjustments it's possible to slightly bend the strut tube (i.e. crash damage) or pull the strut towers slightly closer together (assuming you don't have this already welded into a cage).  This was often common on older cars where the rules didn't allow adjustments.  

 

One caveat is if you pull all the load into the monoball you'll either need to get better quality replacements or treat this as a wear item depending on use.  The GC plates spread that load into the spherical machined surface on top. 

[jhm]

4 hours ago, AydinZ71 said:

 

 

Honestly, I would have rather bought the T3 or ground control camber plates, but both seemed to me to require cutting of the unibody which is not acceptable to SCCA production class. It has to be a true "bolt-in" solution utilizing the same means of attachment (unibody holes)

 

I think I've mentioned this once or twice previously, but DP Racing and Ground Control both make true bolt-in camber plates that incorporate 2.5" top hats in their design, to avoid this issue you're currently having.  I'd definitely consider them for usage in your front coilovers.

 

You could try the teflon sheet idea, but that would obviously be a wear item; and the fitted bushing and bearing solution already mentioned would be better.

 

Yes, the spring top perch is AKA the spring top hat.

Edited November 26, 2020 by jhm

[AydinZ71]

14 minutes ago, jhm said:

I think I've mentioned this once or twice previously, but DP Racing and Ground Control both make true bolt-in camber plates that incorporate 2.5" top hats in their design, to avoid this issue you're currently having.  I'd definitely consider them for usage in your front coilovers.

 

You could try the teflon sheet idea, but that would obviously be a wear item; and the fitted bushing and bearing solution already mentioned would be better.

 

Yes, the spring top perch is AKA the spring top hat.

 

You did! I think im over thinking this. I just looked at both options and purchased the ground control camber plates for the rear. When I first saw your post, I was in the field working and did not remember to look back at your links. Thanks again for your help, and your patience!  

[AydinZ71]

On 11/26/2020 at 2:38 PM, jhm said:

I think I've mentioned this once or twice previously, but DP Racing and Ground Control both make true bolt-in camber plates that incorporate 2.5" top hats in their design, to avoid this issue you're currently having.  I'd definitely consider them for usage in your front coilovers.

 

You could try the teflon sheet idea, but that would obviously be a wear item; and the fitted bushing and bearing solution already mentioned would be better.

 

Yes, the spring top perch is AKA the spring top hat.

thanks again for the suggestion. These do look to keep the spring and shock concentric. I’m happy with the build quality. They asked me for very detailed dimensions on the shock To verify figment. 
 

just got some more undercoating work to do in the wheel wells and they will be going in.