240z SCCA vintage race car, restoration

[clarkspeed]

Now you are getting into some fun stuff! Greg runs races less than 1 hr so something to consider unless you have some big electrical demand. I am going to run a Geo Metro alt on my next engine as a small alternative, but I have not got to the engineering for that yet. 

 

AIM has a good product. Think about where you want to be in future state before purchase. I know quite a bit about data acquisition and I am officially Greg's race engineer BTW. Main questions are do you just just want a dash and how much data you you want to analyze? Are you just looking at driver performance or logging of multiple car parameters? Are you planning carbs or EFI system? They are both legal for EP.

[AydinZ71]

@clarkspeed ah! Hey that’s great! I didn’t realize you were still so involved! I saw your name under “special thanks” along with Guy and Sam on his nationals victory. I bet that was a great experience. 
 

I just realized the link didn’t get posted. Here is what I had found: https://performancedistributors.com/product/mini-racing-alternator/

Problem is, I have no idea if 7lbs is light for an alternator (need to weigh my OEM unit) or whether these are quality. one idea I had was using an amp meter when the car is finally running, and size the alternator just a hair over. Since all we are running is ignition and instrumentation, I’m betting we are less than 30A peak. If that were true, I would look for any 12v alternator in a 35-40A frame. Might still use up juice at idle, but once you are ripping, RPM/amps are not longer an issue 

 

I looked in to AIM, and immediately realized it’s not something I can afford at this time, hahaha. Failed start. My main reason is to eliminate analog gauges, store data for off-track analysis, and rough-tune suspension with the lateral G data. Ideally I could use the axial G’s to tune my valve and ignition timing, but I doubt it is sensitive enough. I will be running dual O2’s for tuning the SU’s. 
 

Tilton assembly is in, so now I can add reinforcing around it and tie a thin tube to the roll cage to resist (tension) my leg force on the firewall. 

[tube80z]

On 8/2/2021 at 7:32 PM, AydinZ71 said:

1) anyone run a racing/lightweight alternator? Greg uses Li batteries w/o alt., and just charges the batteries after the race. I don’t think I’m there yet, so looking for a compromise. I found this. Eager for your feedback! 

 

I've done that in the past.  I can tell you that going forward I'm not for the simple reason is you need to lug around another battery to hook to the car before and after runs.  And forgetting to turn something off really screws up your day.  I made a quick connect on the side of the car where I would drive off and the base battery connection would pull out.  While that worked it left a battery hanging around where I was.  Not a big deal if you have friends that will move it but if you're a one man show someplace that might be problematic.

 

On 8/2/2021 at 7:32 PM, AydinZ71 said:

2) looking into AIM dash loggers. Anyone run these or have any preferences?

 

I like AIM products but hate their software.  They are doing a massive upgrade to Race Studio, which is their analysis package.  It addresses a lot of my comments.  One reason they are successful is they are doing tons of training webinars and show up at major events.  There aren't too many places where you can actually get emails from the software developer asking for specifics around something you found or don't like.  

 

That said, they are a lower tier player compared to the big boys but I don't think you'd run into any use case where at an amateur or starting out pro user would have a problem.  There are other companies that have similar products that might be better or not.  Race Technology is one, which I hear has great analysis software.  AEM has some alternatives but I've not seen any in person.  Personally I'd leave this to the last item on your list only because the market is always driving forward and you don't want to be tied down by older products.   My AIM system is one of their first to support cars coming from carts.  I got a killer deal on it and bought it.  There are plenty of things it won't do but it has enough that I can still do a lot of work using match channels to find areas of improvement.

 

One thing to keep in mind is if you are going to EFI that many aftermarket companies have dashes now and the EFI system will do a lot of the channels via CAN.  So that's a must if you need to stay current.  And there are some cool PDM solutions running around.

 

On 8/2/2021 at 7:32 PM, AydinZ71 said:

 

 

PS: mocking up the pedal assembly 

 

Have you considered replacing the column with 3/4 DOM tubing and joints (Woodward, etc.)?  I lost a surprising amount of weight when I did that.  And I moved the column over to make my pedal spacing better on my new car.  The old car uses the stock box modified to take a balance bar.  Add a horizontal false floor that's level and a heel stop.  I wished I would have done that earlier. I drove a friends car with this mod and it was nice and seemed easier to use.

 

Hope that helps,

Cary

 

[tube80z]

17 hours ago, AydinZ71 said:

@clarkspeed ah! Hey that’s great! I didn’t realize you were still so involved! I saw your name under “special thanks” along with Guy and Sam on his nationals victory. I bet that was a great experience. 
 

I just realized the link didn’t get posted. Here is what I had found: https://performancedistributors.com/product/mini-racing-alternator/

Problem is, I have no idea if 7lbs is light for an alternator (need to weigh my OEM unit) or whether these are quality. one idea I had was using an amp meter when the car is finally running, and size the alternator just a hair over. Since all we are running is ignition and instrumentation, I’m betting we are less than 30A peak. If that were true, I would look for any 12v alternator in a 35-40A frame. Might still use up juice at idle, but once you are ripping, RPM/amps are not longer an issue 

 

Look for a Kubota tractor alternator.  Here's a link https://www.amazon.com/Alternator-100211-1670-16231-24011-16241-64010-16241-64011/dp/B00S6MW70A/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=kubota+alternator&qid=1628200900&sr=8-5

 

Cary

[AydinZ71]

@tube80z hey thanks a bunch Cary! Definitely looking into the alternator now! 
 

No EFI (I wish). Unfortunately our spec. Line for a 240z in EP still has SU’s listed. Somehow, Greg was able to squeeze out 260hp out of them, which is phenomenal considering the head restrictions in EP. 

 

I very much have contemplated ditching the stock steering column! Only reason I kept it is I have so many other priorities on the list, that fabricating something from scratch merely to save weight didn’t make it on the list yet. A few folks here recommended a Sweet column. Do you have a parts list/concept for the replacement column? Is it just a 3/4” diameter tube with the steering rod riding inside with pressed in bearings on each end? Or… are you talking a 3/4” tube as the steering shaft itself, where the mounting bearings are on the outside? 
 

The car still has a LONG way to go on optimization. Always looking for new ideas to employ!

[JMortensen]

Isn't the factory alternator 40A? Is the tractor one smaller, or internally regulated? Why not just use a good stock setup?

 

[AydinZ71]

56 minutes ago, JMortensen said:

Isn't the factory alternator 40A? Is the tractor one smaller, or internally regulated? Why not just use a good stock setup?

 

That’s a great question Jon. I am looking for something lighter than OEM. Something just big enough to keep up with the ignition system amp draw. Ideal solution is to have enough juice on board to not need an alternator at all, but I don’t have the budget for Li batteries at this time. 

 

In theory, the alternator only “steals” the power it needs to maintain a 14.5amp voltage. So, certainly nothing wrong with the OEM unit, just looking for weight savings  

 

I will keep looking around  maybe I can find a creative solution. It will be worthwhile to check my current amp draw when she is running as a baseline for the smallest unit I can employ. 

[clarkspeed]

I think Cary is referencing just 3/4 tubing with external bearings. Maybe even a rod end near the steering wheel.  I struggled with this decision on the car I am building. In the end I went with the Sweet collapsible column for safety reasons but it is not so light. I am not sure what the rule book says for EP.

Yea you can get into a lot of complexity on data/dash systems. If you decide to take the plunge maybe we talk on the phone. Yea dash + data is not so cheap. But it opens up a lot of potential. But the potential means nothing unless you can apply it. I think the cheapest solution is the Race Technology Dash 2. It will log 8 channels and the analysis software is pro level. If you just log oil pressure, oil temp, and water temp you have something to look at along with all the GPS and G force data.  I had Greg put 1 in his LeMons race car for those reasons. You can easy add throttle position and the O2 sensors if you want and that is a pretty solid setup. Greg runs Traqmate in his EP car which drives me nuts. The software sucks. I have to put much of the data in Excel to analyze.  But again, complex questions demand complex answers. If you go for something we can talk. I know a little about a lot of things, but data acquisition is something I know a little more about.

[AydinZ71]

@clarkspeed hey I really appreciate that Clark! I’m a complete novice driver, and after seeing the cost on data acquisition/logging, I feel I need a bit more experience before I make the investment. I Absolutly will hit you up after i get some seat time! 

 

I also saw Jesse Prather is running trackmate on his Miata. The programmable alarms are neat, but the tech does look a bit dated. Having to extract the data the way you described to graph in excel definitely sounds like a pain. I think I’m going to go old-school and employ analog gauges for now. If I install electronic sensors, Best-case I can integrate them with a data dash in the future. I figure as long as The analog inputs have a voltage min/max adjustment, software can adjust for scaling and boundary limits. 
 

What all do you run on sensors/gauges? I’m thinking tach w/light, oil pressure w/light, water temp, volts (confirm over 12 for charging), dual O2’s for the SU’s.Can’t imagine anything else would be critical enough to know, but open to your thoughts! Only way I could get a speedo in here is from axle/wheel speed and that seems like a PITA. 

 

Hey by the way, I got an Instagram page up and running for Greg. @gregiraracing 

least I could do for all the help he has given me. 
 

 

[clarkspeed]

I don't normally run a volt gauge, alt failures have been very rate for me. Oil temp is good, best to mount sensor in the pan. 

 

You can always add a Traqmate later if you want to analyze your driving and skip the dash. They go for around 400 used. They are fine for most basic analysis, like looking at speed vs. Distance graphs and g-force circles. Most people stop there. I need much more than that to analyze tire compounds, best gear ratios, understeer, etc. Etc.

 

If you really just want to improve driving, a system that gives real time time slip data back to the driver is a must. Just forget about analyzing data.. Since I have been sim racing, I rely on it extensively. Just something that shows you real time how your rate of time slip compares to your best lap and actual lap or segment delta to best lap. Everytime you try something different in the car, you get immediate feedback if it worked. Some systems have easy to read bar charts and even a voice response in your ear. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by clarkspeed

[tube80z]

18 hours ago, AydinZ71 said:

I very much have contemplated ditching the stock steering column! Only reason I kept it is I have so many other priorities on the list, that fabricating something from scratch merely to save weight didn’t make it on the list yet. A few folks here recommended a Sweet column. Do you have a parts list/concept for the replacement column? Is it just a 3/4” diameter tube with the steering rod riding inside with pressed in bearings on each end? Or… are you talking a 3/4” tube as the steering shaft itself, where the mounting bearings are on the outside? 

 

My column is as Clark described, 3/4 DOM tubing held by separate rod ends (specially sized for 3/4 tube) and then I used the Woodward weld in splines and their u-joints for the weld in splines and a special Woodward u-joint for the rack.  For the collapsing piece I used a Woodward part inside the car near the steering wheel.  It has 5 to 7 inches of telescoping as I recall.  My plan was to make a trick system that allowed you to pull a lever and move the steering wheel up and almost to the windshield rather than removing the wheel.  It was an idea I had thought for driver changes watching friends race in Chumpcar.  

 

For the firewall I used one of the aftermarket 3/4 oversize bearings that mounts flat.  I could move this over enough to get good pedal spacing.  If you don't want to go to all this trouble you might be able to make a larger pad for your brake pedal to make heal and toe easier.  Or you could do the same for the throttle.

 

For data it doesn't matter the system but here's what you need at a minimum in my opinion.

 

For car health you'd these as the most basic.

 

1.  water temp & maybe pressure

2. oil temp & pressure

3. RPMs

4. lateral and longitudinal Gs

5. GPS coordinates

6. other basic things you want to measure (fuel pressure)

 

The magic happens in the software.  You can create match channels to view what happens to your fuel and oil pressure when you're in a turn over a certain amount of Gs.  Or what happens when you brake hard.  One of my favorites is to create match channels that measure the distance certain things happen.  Say for instance how many feet have you driven against the rev limiter.  What are the mileage of components when heavily stressed (brakes over a certain Gs threshold).  You can map these out against a track map to see if there are certain areas where there are problems and plan on how to fix.

 

You're probably thinking when am I going to have time to deal with all this data.  That's where setting up the analysis package comes into play.  I like to create a health report that is a channels measure screen.  It records the highs and the lows.  So for all those match channels above I set them to show either 0 or 1.  The channels report can then be setup to show red for anything showing a 1.  This could be low oil pressure but it only shows when you have a really long corner with heavy braking at the same time.  My first 5 minutes involves clicking the health tab and seeing if there are any red or yellow items (all goes back to setup).  These can cover all the basics so you only need a few gauges if you don't want to do a dash.  You don't need voltage, current, fuel level, etc. as the datalogger is a better option.  

 

For understanding how you are driving I'd add the following the basics for car health. 

 

1. Lateral and longitudinal Gs (can be GPS sourced if all else fails)

2. GPS for distance and track mapping.  Most new systems can also be used to verify lines but ideally that's done by adding video.  Race Technology is better here than AIM that want to use their expensive smarty cams.

3. steering

4. throttle

5. front and rear brake pressure sensors

 

Like car health you can create match channels that measure how you are doing and put that into a channels report.  And any package that's decent will have time slip (faster or slower vs. reference lap or same sectors).  You can map these out on the track and tie to video to see what lines might be better or worse.  But generally before you start worrying about this you can use a split times report to check for consistency.  That along with seeing timeslip will help you get better as a driver really quickly.  Then you add in how are you doing at heal and toe, or how good are you on the brakes, or releasing the brakes.

 

You can also use the above channels to measure Ackerman steering and use this as a math channel to report over or understeer.  You can map that out on a track, you can show it doe fast, medium, or slow corners.  There's lots you can do.  My advice use OEM sensors from a JY or buy new often for a ton less than what the data companies want to charge.  In the end it's like anything else.  All the details are in the preparation and that makes it much easier to consume the data at the track.  I'm a big believer in Ross Bentley's review system for data.  You have 5 minutes to check the big things (health KPIs), 15 to 30 minutes to see area where you can improve (or be more consistent), then you can spend a bunch more time between events looking for ideas of what to change to make you faster and more consitent.

 

Sorry for the length, I love data and race cars

 

Cary

[clarkspeed]

4 hours ago, tube80z said:

 

My column is as Clark described, 3/4 DOM tubing held by separate rod ends (specially sized for 3/4 tube) and then I used the Woodward weld in splines and their u-joints for the weld in splines and a special Woodward u-joint for the rack.  For the collapsing piece I used a Woodward part inside the car near the steering wheel.  It has 5 to 7 inches of telescoping as I recall.  My plan was to make a trick system that allowed you to pull a lever and move the steering wheel up and almost to the windshield rather than removing the wheel.  It was an idea I had thought for driver changes watching friends race in Chumpcar.  

 

For the firewall I used one of the aftermarket 3/4 oversize bearings that mounts flat.  I could move this over enough to get good pedal spacing.  If you don't want to go to all this trouble you might be able to make a larger pad for your brake pedal to make heal and toe easier.  Or you could do the same for the throttle.

 

For data it doesn't matter the system but here's what you need at a minimum in my opinion.

 

For car health you'd these as the most basic.

 

1.  water temp & maybe pressure

2. oil temp & pressure

3. RPMs

4. lateral and longitudinal Gs

5. GPS coordinates

6. other basic things you want to measure (fuel pressure)

 

The magic happens in the software.  You can create match channels to view what happens to your fuel and oil pressure when you're in a turn over a certain amount of Gs.  Or what happens when you brake hard.  One of my favorites is to create match channels that measure the distance certain things happen.  Say for instance how many feet have you driven against the rev limiter.  What are the mileage of components when heavily stressed (brakes over a certain Gs threshold).  You can map these out against a track map to see if there are certain areas where there are problems and plan on how to fix.

 

You're probably thinking when am I going to have time to deal with all this data.  That's where setting up the analysis package comes into play.  I like to create a health report that is a channels measure screen.  It records the highs and the lows.  So for all those match channels above I set them to show either 0 or 1.  The channels report can then be setup to show red for anything showing a 1.  This could be low oil pressure but it only shows when you have a really long corner with heavy braking at the same time.  My first 5 minutes involves clicking the health tab and seeing if there are any red or yellow items (all goes back to setup).  These can cover all the basics so you only need a few gauges if you don't want to do a dash.  You don't need voltage, current, fuel level, etc. as the datalogger is a better option.  

 

For understanding how you are driving I'd add the following the basics for car health. 

 

1. Lateral and longitudinal Gs (can be GPS sourced if all else fails)

2. GPS for distance and track mapping.  Most new systems can also be used to verify lines but ideally that's done by adding video.  Race Technology is better here than AIM that want to use their expensive smarty cams.

3. steering

4. throttle

5. front and rear brake pressure sensors

 

Like car health you can create match channels that measure how you are doing and put that into a channels report.  And any package that's decent will have time slip (faster or slower vs. reference lap or same sectors).  You can map these out on the track and tie to video to see what lines might be better or worse.  But generally before you start worrying about this you can use a split times report to check for consistency.  That along with seeing timeslip will help you get better as a driver really quickly.  Then you add in how are you doing at heal and toe, or how good are you on the brakes, or releasing the brakes.

 

You can also use the above channels to measure Ackerman steering and use this as a math channel to report over or understeer.  You can map that out on a track, you can show it doe fast, medium, or slow corners.  There's lots you can do.  My advice use OEM sensors from a JY or buy new often for a ton less than what the data companies want to charge.  In the end it's like anything else.  All the details are in the preparation and that makes it much easier to consume the data at the track.  I'm a big believer in Ross Bentley's review system for data.  You have 5 minutes to check the big things (health KPIs), 15 to 30 minutes to see area where you can improve (or be more consistent), then you can spend a bunch more time between events looking for ideas of what to change to make you faster and more consitent.

 

Sorry for the length, I love data and race cars

 

Cary

Wow Cary, I didn't know you went that deep into data acquisition!  Problem is when I start talking about this stuff,, people's eyes glaze over. I have my software split into 2 modules depending on which analysis I am doing. 1 is for driver performance with related KPI's. it looks at max use of G circle, racing lines, lap comparisons, throttle and brake use etc. It is combined with video feed.  The other is car performance stuff like downforce, gearing, under/oversteer etc.. Both have lots of custom graphs and math channels that show problem areas as red. The KPI's provide important historical reference. I haven't tracked engine parameters much because I am out of channels, but intend in the future. I really like your idea of a simple 1 or 0 flag to scan. I may even be able to get that displayed before I get out of the car!  

Don't know I you saw my last post in the sim racing thread. I spent some covid time fabbing a cockpit display for time slip and slip rate. I have become dependent on this from sim racing. I think that will improve my lap times immensely.

[JMortensen]

Cary's problem is he doesn't talk enough; the dude is a reservoir of knowledge. Pretty much every time I was waffling on some part of my car, he made an argument and I went the way he suggested. That I have 257 "reputation points" and he has 28 shows the errors of the reputation point system.

[AydinZ71]

Sorry for the late reply!

 

@tube80z @clarkspeed Thank you both so much! Cary, your long winded e-mail is very much appreciated! Detail is great! Always good as a reference in hindsight. I am going to add oil temp and fuel pressure as well, based on your feedback. Thankfully FP is not as critical on carbs since I just need to keep the float full (>1psi, regulator set to 5psi). but if the float drops and fuel does not come in, the fuel head will change and they will fall out of tune (SU's).

 

Cary, I will be pushing the data acquisition and analysis to a later phase of the build. I feel like I need to get out there and get some seat time before I can truly appreciate what metrics will mater most to me. That will save me some time to save up for a fancy new electronics package as well (leaning AIM). Important thing is to purchase/install the right sensors into the build now, so I can avoid new brackets/mechanical connections in the future (if possible). That way, adding electronics becomes a purely electrical exercise vs. re-work. 

 

Latest updates and questions (if you have time!):

 

1) Steering, pedals, and seat are all prelim. mounted to check fitment, and adjust the seat position based on my dimensions. 

 

2) Tilton pedal assembly is 100% installed w/ reinforcement added to the firewall. Steering column is bolted in as part of the mock-up, and I will be purchasing a "column drop" with the right dimensions based on my preference. That will "set" the height of the steering wheel. I am happy with the reach, so no need to adjust the telescoping. Going to keep the stock column for now, but will make plans to incorporate a smaller diameter shaft w/external bearings in the future. I see an easy 3-4lbs weight savings here, so I'm a fan. Just need to dedicate time to getting her up and running first. 

 

3) Moving forward with the Ford EDIS-type crank-fire ignition. Electromotive is great, but at $850 as a starting cost, I see the EDIS approach costing less than 1/3. I have the EDIS module and a crank trigger wheel that should work with my ATI dampener, ordered. Anyone have a recommendation on what model or where to buy a VR crank sensor? I could just buy a Ford OEM unit, but wanted to get your feedback. How about the coil packs? Looks like I can get OEM for 50, and there seems to be some A/M performance units for $100-150. Would love some feedback on what's good and what's garbage! 

 

4) The race car was dead-heading fuel to the carbs at 5psi before I tore everything apart and started restoring it. My other option is to install a return line, and have the drain from the FPR return fuel back to the inlet of the pumps. I have two independent redundant pumps (with outbound check valves) adjacent to my fuel cell. Any strong feelings about a fuel return line back to the fuel cell? I assume this will help eliminate vapor-lock and recirculate the fuel to keep the temp in the line consistent. 

 

5) Cooling: I just sold my OEM radiator. Any suggestions on a radiator? Mishimoto? Anyone running the head-to-block cooling mod for cylinders 5 & 6 on an NA race engine? 

 

6) Oil: I have an external oil filter bracket, and the oil filter remote adapter. I also have a copper/AL oil cooler I plan to use. How about oil pans? I hear some folks have had trouble with oil pressure blips at high G's, so I was looking into a Moroso or make my own custom (since its carbon steel). Also, anyone have a recommendation on an A/M cam oiler? I still have the OEM unit on the heavily modified N42 head, but it requires gaskets to seal and I am not thrilled about the stamped/punched construction. I would be happier with a billet unit with larger galley's. 

 

6) FRP hood: I already have an Z-trix FRP hatch since the OEM unit was pretty banged up. Any suggestions on a quality and affordable RFP hood? thought I would look around a bit before I went with Z-trix again. 

[clarkspeed]

I can comment on #5 and #6. I have run the Mischimoto with good results. I also ran cheap Griffin I think from some Ford app. I literally had to block parts of it on cool days to keep water temp above 160.

 

My personal opinion, and there are a lot of opinions out there, dry sump is best. If not dry sump, then a good racing oil pan with trap doors , windage tray, AND an accusump is next best. And third is a stock oil pan with accusump. The car I have now has the latter but most cars I build are option 1 or 2.

Edited August 11, 2021 by clarkspeed

[AydinZ71]

@clarkspeed thanks Clark! Il go with Mishimoto. I wish I knew more about their quality/construction. I’m surprised their cost is not as high as I would expect from a top-end vendor. 
 

I looked into accusump and watched Jesse Prathers video. It’s kind of a PITA, but certainly makes a difference if your pressure drops! I was surprised folks were not using a small bladder-filled accumulator. I have used them in other engineering applications. Worrying about the oil volume was my biggest concern. Who did you source your dry-sump system from if you don’t mind me asking? 
 

thanks again for the feedback! I really do appreciate it. 
 

here are a few shots of my drivers side seat mount and rails/stiffener. Also a shot of the Tilton pedals and steering column. I created a 3/4” rise on the front relative to the back. Personal preference, I like leaning back a bit with a harness. These will be welded in as soon as I get gas. 

Also a shot of the Tilton pedals and steering column. settled on a 4” drop from the roll bar, and getting that collar on order. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by AydinZ71

[clarkspeed]

I can comment on #6 also. The z-trix hood is extremely high quality and amazing light weight. I have one for the car I am building.

 

There used to be a guy in Greensboro, NC under the old Japco Raceglass moniker that made hoods and hatches so thin, you had to add your own supports. I still have one of his hatches. I googled him but couldn't find anything. He was at a Volvo repair shop and made FG parts for many SCCA prepared cars. He must have had a ton of molds. 

 

I could say do your own, I have been tuning my FG skills for about a year now. I just did a door and I am confident I could do a hood. But man it is the most boring, repetitive, exhausting, messy, never ending thing I have done with a car. I didn't think I could hate anything more than body work, but this went way past it. And the results are nowhere close the the Z trix stuff. My surface finish was great,, but the WEIGHT was not.. The Z Trix stuff is rigid and still paper thin.. I assume he vacuum bags the stuff.. I still have an air dam to finish, because none exist for what I need.

[AydinZ71]

@clarkspeed sounds good! Il probably go with the Z-TRIX hood then  

 

I already have so much body work il need to do, anything I can do to shed hours by purchasing I’m all for it! Especially if someone else’s skill can be leveraged to save time  Hence purchasing, but I like your idea of FG doors! That might be something I take a crack at in the future. 
 

I got the Mishimoto Radiator on order. Surprising… a quality radiator for 300 bucks shipped… really hard to believe! Maybe they are made hubdreds at a time in china 🤷🏽‍♂️ 

 

too bad the roof can’t be replaced with FRP in EP.  Lot of weight up there. Thicker gauge of steel, and a lot of unnecessary stiffening/reinforcement. Could just use the nearby roll cage halo for that purpose. still eyeing that darn hatch mount crossmember. With a FG hatch and Lexan, I’m sure it doesn’t need to be as beefy as it is now. I could even use the roll cage as the hinge point and ditch the OEM steel altogether. 
 

funny how you start obsessing over details the deeper you tear into a car. I guess once you have had your hands on every square inch of OEM steel, you start seeing things in a while different light.

 

On an unrelated note, I traded a bunch of turbo parts with a nice kid for his V07 crank. It’s at Mountune (socal race engine machine shop) right now being checked out. Need to decide if I’m going to keep it for my new turbo rebuild for the street Z, or build an NA race engine with it. Would not meet any classes I’m familiar with, but it would be fun to have a quick swap 3.0-3.1L for the race car just for shits and giggles. With carbs, I could swap it with the L24 in a few hours. 
 

Only reason I’m considering it for the turbo build is the added displacement will help with spool-up. Otherwise, the marginal gain at boost is not all that remarkable, since the head quickly becomes the limiting component. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by AydinZ71

[clarkspeed]

A lot of the vintage guys run the V07. Some some openly, some secretly. Most vintage  organizations don't measure displacement. I actually had 1 I swapped in and out but destroyed it a few years ago. 

I am no expert, but based on what I have seen,  if you put that crank in  turbo, don't try to max out the bore to 0.120. I saw a guy go through 4 blocks trying to get that combo to work. Kept blowing holes through the cylinder walls. Many of these old blocks don't have that much meat left in them.

 

[AydinZ71]

1 hour ago, clarkspeed said:

A lot of the vintage guys run the V07. Some some openly, some secretly. Most vintage  organizations don't measure displacement. I actually had 1 I swapped in and out but destroyed it a few years ago. 

I am no expert, but based on what I have seen,  if you put that crank in  turbo, don't try to max out the bore to 0.120. I saw a guy go through 4 blocks trying to get that combo to work. Kept blowing holes through the cylinder walls. Many of these old blocks don't have that much meat left in them.

 

100% Clark 

 

I wasn’t planning to overbore at all if I ran a turbo. ~2960cc. No more than necessary to seat a new set of pistons and rigs, plus hone. That extra displacement is not worth the risk at 30psi. I may still blow a block, but at least then I’d know it was from water jacket corrosion, and not my own doing. I would also have the walls ultrasonic tested to ensure I had enough wall left. 
 

NA engine has significantly less pressure/heat over the full power stroke, so I might try 1.5MM overbore. The weakest part on the cylinder is about halfway down the stroke, where the walls are furthest from the end flanges, and surrounded by water jackets. 
 

Here is a shot from Corky Bell’s book for reference. Most of my experience is from turbo applications. The EP motor is my first attempt at a race engine, and I plan to burn out the rings before I throw in lightweight rods for 8k+ rpm. 

I will keep an open mind for now  Good to know it can likely run it in Vintage Racing as an easy swap for the 2.4L EP engine. Thanks for that feedback!