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Uneven deck height


ttodhunter

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Hey all, 

 

I'm putting back together my motor and have found that (especially) the #1 piston, at TDC, is above deck at the rear and at deck at the front.  I am measuring approximately 15 thou above deck, but only at the rear of the piston.  I don't have a mechanics straight edge, but used a framers square across the top and can't fit a 10 thou feeler anywhere along the deck.  I plan to use a standard FelPro HG which should still leave 20-25 thou clearance, but not sure if that's enough.  I also worry that there is a problem somewhere that once I fire it up will reveal itself.  Has anyone else come across a similar situation?  The block was not decked since rebuild.  Feel free to make me look dumb.  

N42 Block

P90 Head

L28+1 dished pistons

 

Thanks for your input!

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That’s weird… I’m not a machinist, but .015” is a LOT. Can you “feel” the difference with your finger tips? Trying to rule-out your measurement device. What would naturally cause your piston to “pivot” on its axial travel would be improper ring gap or worn rings. Beyond that, it could be many things. My head is off, and I’m at -0.35mm (negative for protruding piston) on all 6. 
 

i boosted an L24 twenty years ago and thoroughly wore-down the rings to the point where the piston side-skirts slapped the cylinder walls. Detonation was involved. 

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On 2/18/2022 at 8:13 AM, ttodhunter said:

L28+1 dished pistons

 

3 hours ago, ttodhunter said:

try swapping #1 and #2 to see if the problem is with the rotating portions or with the hole

 

What brand of piston?  Add connecting rod to the possible cause list.  If the problem stays with #1.  That's probably what you meant by hole.  Interesting problem.

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I went and measured all pistons, Front and rear:

#1 F -1.5, R +13

#2 F +3, R +8

#3 F +3, R +8

#4 F -1, R +10

#5 F +3, R +8

#6 F +10, R -3

I swapped #1 and #6, and the readings remained unchanged with piston assembly #1 in hole #6 reading F -1.5, R +13.  Same thing for #6 in #1 hole.  I am now suspecting that the rods are bent, so I will take them and get them checked out.  I'll post results, but it may be a while.  Any other comments or suggestions are welcomed in the meantime.  Thanks for all the input so far!

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So, I took #6 to the machine shop to check for straightness.  He put it on a template and found it slightly off, put the crank end in a vise and a dowel on the pin and did a few rounds of hammer blows.  He got it to 'as straight at he could get it'.  I took it home and put it in the hole, and it now measures F +4, R +3.  This appears to be the root of the problem.  The question now becomes: do I have him repeat for all cylinders, or do I get new rods.  Would you all have concerns with rods that were bent being straightened in this manner?  I worry, and I'm no metallurgist, that when they heat up, they may bend back to their previous state.  Or, perhaps, that their strength has been compromised.  He did note, as he was hammering, that they were very tough rods.  

 

Thanks again.  

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Can you afford a whole new bottom-end? I bought mine 6mo ago for $350. That would be the most convenient option (Quick swap). If you find a set of spare rods, crack open your “how to rebuild” book and read carefully if you are attempting it yourself. You need to check clearances etc. i also believe the wrist pin is pressed in on OEM rod so, there’s that.

 

What are your future plans? If you plan to race the car, upgrade to lightweight rods. Rods are also the weak-point on a turbo engine. About $1500 for a quality set from Pauter.  
 

Quick facts on steel: if the rods are heated to the point where they change “color”, the metal becomes annealed. This is the most ductile state of the metal as the molecules have rearranged themselves. If the OEM rods were heat-treated (I don’t know anything about OEM forged parts), you are losing the “hardness” that came from OEM treatment process. I would toss them and not reuse them, unless you know what you are doing and can re-heat treat and “quench”. This process is done BEFORE machining, as heat-treating can warp the steel 
 

 

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