Brake Master Cylinder Brace

[mutantZ]

Anyone have any thoughts on this? It would be infinitely easier than getting all the seam fill from that panel out and weld bracing it.

 

https://www.apexengineered.com/store/p77/Brake_Master_Cylinder_Brace.html

[AydinZ71]

30 minutes ago, mutantZ said:

Anyone have any thoughts on this? It would be infinitely easier than getting all the seam fill from that panel out and weld bracing it.

 

https://www.apexengineered.com/store/p77/Brake_Master_Cylinder_Brace.html

 

It looks a little gimmicky to me. I suppose it is a solution if you don't want to weld to your car or remove the brake booster/cylinder assembly. I just doubt it would make much of a difference in the end, since it does not take much force to deflect 20-gauge sheet metal (what the bracket is bolted to). Do you experience a lot of deflection in your pedal? 

[mutantZ]

My car is about to go onto a rotisserie and I am going to be doing some repair and moderate stitch welding on the easy stuff. I was thinking "while I am at it" until I came across this part. I'm not sure if I will need to brace the area around the master, but everything is apart so... Did you brace yours for your build? If its not a concern, I will prob just sand and paint it. I'll do a track day here and there, but its 98% a street car.

[AydinZ71]

when you disassemble your pedal assembly, you will see it is not only bracing against your cowl chimney, but also your firewall as well. On the engine-side, this section of the firewall re-unforced pretty well too. You could stitch weld the OEM lap joints here if you want, but go super slow as the firewall is prone to warping. If you plan to leave it OEM (single dual-acting MC) w/ brake booster, it is probably stiff enough. If you are putting in a cage, you can have a tube run from your cage through this general area of your firewall through to your strut tower. You will need to mock everything up though, just so you are sure there is no interference. A friend of mine did this recently much better than I did. He is on IG “gregs_gears”, lives down yhe street from me. 
 

Us silly race cars (often) run dual master cylinders so we can adjust the front/rear proportioning on-the-fly (with a knob). The hydraulic ones work but they can fall out of adjustment as the fluid changes temp etc. my pedal assembly is a Tilton unit, but will wood makes them too. I removed my (rusty) OEM pedal assembly altogether, and replaced the firewall section with a sheet of 16-gauge (where OEM felt like 18-gauge) and reinforced it on all sides with tube sections. Pics attached. Finally, I have a 1.5” tube running from my roll bar to the firewall, then from the firewall to the strut housing. When I slam it, the tube sections on the firewall makes the whole thing move as a ridged section, and the tube to the roll bar keeps the whole firewall from flexing. 
 

blah blah all this to say if you want to keep OEM, you can stiffen the chassis to the strut towers (important) and pedal/firewall interface all at the same time. That way you don’t have to add extra metal just for the firewall/pedal assembly. 

[mutantZ]

I am welding a brace under the fender. I was wondering if the strut tower brace that ties back to the firewall would be enough to reduce flex there. I could weld in braces tying it back, but I like the idea of it being removeable in the event i want to clean.

[JMortensen]

If you're bolting in a strut brace and have a welder, would it be possible to weld up a better brace, either off of the strut tower or off of your braces to the firewall? 

I think the idea of a master cyl brace is a good one, just not convinced that the bracket they're selling would do much.

[mutantZ]

I was looking at this in terms of a bolt in brace, I prob could gusset it a bit before install.

 

https://www.apexengineered.com/store/p66/Front_Strut_Brace.html

 

In terms of a weld in brace, is this what you were talking about?

 

 

 

I notice most peoples braces are welded offset from each other on the firewall, is there a reason for that? I may try a panel replacement for the master since theres essentially nothing on my car at the moment, but it would most likely be overkill for my driving. I'm mostly street, but I am a pretty hardcore bench racer 😁

Edited May 2, 2022 by mutantZ

[AydinZ71]

When you say offset, do you mean the drivers side bars are not a mirror image on the passenger side? I’m my case this is true. It’s because the most efficient bar placement on my passenger side could not be reproduced on the drivers side due to the Tilton pedal assembly interference. It could have been made a mirror image, but I would have had to design it on paper first vs. install the pedal reinforcement first then iterate on further reinforcement. It only looks goofy. In terms of performance, there will be negligible different. In My case, I have one bar that straddles the inner fender wheel-well. The 20-gauge steel shrouding it acts as a shear-wall resisting bending in that direction. The other bar terminates to the firewall and continues to the roll cage. The last bar is actually a semi-circle of 16-gauge tube that ties the thick steel at the top of the strut tower to the 14-gauge 2.5” 316SS frame rail. This one is acting mostly in tension. 

[mutantZ]

Ive been following your build in instagram, your car is probably 20x's more serious than mine will be used. I have to admit a lot of what im doing is probably cosmetic, you know it *could* be functional though 😂. I will most likely just do the bolt in brace give what you are saying about what those bars tie into. I think I may do a plate on the firewall to spread the load a little better.

 

The real question I have is how much does your cat charge for labor

[AydinZ71]

Oh you follow me on IG? Cool! So you already know I’m silly AF 😂

 

He charges one head-Pat and 4oz of kibbles. Except, he just takes your offering and promptly goes to sleep. 
 

yeah you are probably OK using it, not using it. I mean, it’s $50. But yeah, if you do want to improve upon it, you could use a sandwich plate on either side of the OEM wheel well to make the attachment point more rigid. 

[jhm]

I would tend to agree with Aydin...does seem a little gimicky; but then again, it’s only $50.  If you like the idea, that part is easily fabricated DIY, but make sure it’s easily removable (I.e., not welded) to ensure ease of removing your MC when you need to.  If your firewall is structurally sound, it should be plenty strong for street use with the occasional track day.  If you’re concerned about it, just reinforce that area while the car’s on the rotisserie.  I guess I could imagine some possible firewall flex if someone were running their car without brake boost, which obviously requires a lot more pedal force to achieve the same level of braking.