Dyno run done!

[jeffp]

oh, sorry for the bad spelling.

[Lockjaw]

Well the stage V wheel is worth at least 75 hp over the stage III according to turblonetics. That would put you close to 500, and you still can go to the .82 housing, and if you extrudehoned the housing, perhaps you can get close to the HP you want.

 

I have got to say, I have gotten a lot of static about the JWT set-up and it is nice to see someone bust out some big numbers with it, and a HYBRID TURBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Congrats on the numbers. The dampner is a weak link, my friend said he has been seeing alot of it in his shop. My 260 was reading in excess of 60 advanced until I did a crude top dead center check and marked the dampner again. Nice huh?

 

Big turbo guys, I think a little is in order.

[jeffp]

Really that would put me where I want to be to gain that much power. You need to stop to considr the loss through the drive train and that is said to be anywhere from 15-20& depending on who you talk to so 415 Hp at the wheels is 498 Hp @ the flywheel, if I am doing the math correctly. Not to bad I say. I just want to get the power band in a better range. I do need a better compressor, and I really need to find out the actual back pressure at the turbo inlet.

 

The dampener, I knew it was going to go, but not this fast. I have a guy designing a new dampener as we speak. Dave Robello is having the older three shiv dampener in to him also and the Euro dampener. He is spinning the engines to 8500 rpm and he said they are lasting about five races and they are toast. The dampeners are being frequency tested right now and with that information Brian can come up with a solution. ATI also makes a dampener already for the L28 engines, but I haven't looked at them closely to figure out if that unit will work on my car. The ATI unit is NHRA approved and are serviceable.

I have been thinking about this problem for some time because I wanted to set the rev limit to 7200 rpm because I am having a hard time shifting fast enough at times to get it into second before the rev limiter kicks in.

I have looked at the fluidamper and possibly in an application of a serpentine belt configuration. That really would be the best way to go I think.

[jeffp]

Well I have good news and I have bad news. The good news is that I got the output Hp to 415.1 and the torque to 473.2 and stopped there at about 23-25 psi.

I started to do the cam timing and found out the harmonic dampener is gone, the timing mark is way off and I can see where the rubber is getting munched. I realized this after I had the cam sprocket loose and had no wqay of figuring the degrees of retard on the cam. I did not have a dial indicator to get TDC on the piston, and I tried to use the screw driver old trick, but that was a waste of time. For anyones information, doing the screw driver is a complete waste of time as there are a number of degrees of crank rotation that move the piston just slightly and you cant tell exactly where TDC is without a dial indicator, so dont even bother.

I did advance the cam to where I thought 4 degrees was, but that to was a waste of time. We ran the car and it caughed good once and it felt rough when I started it. I thankfully did have a mark to where I had the cam before I started, and you know sometimes I think I am real smart, because I forgot I did that mark, so I set it back to where it was ran the car one time to make sure we did not do any damage with it's little cough and called it even.

Here is the thing tho, the power comes on at 3500 very hard and lasts till almost 5000. The boost gauge starts fluttering at about 23 psi, so now I'm thinking it just may not be the cam causing the drop in power/torque, but the turbo just running out of air flow.

Now I'm thinking the best way to go is to get the bigger turbo, run it up to 23-25psi and see what the results are on the power band.

What do you guys think would be the best next step with this thing???? My reasoning is that I know I need a bigger turbo anyway, so start there and then start testing again once I know for damn sure the flow rate is there (pounds per minute) and then start testing again.

I think I am going to make a few calls and try to get some more input even on the head and make sure the valves are no floating or something like that, because when they start resonating, and they do, the power dropps off real quick also.

I will scan the dyno results and post them on my page later today so you can get a look at what I am talking about.

I'm all ears guys and gals.

 

Jeff

[Lockjaw]

Well as tough a time as I had at the track last time with hittng the rev limiter, I imagine your problem is worse. I had mine set at 7k, and with the 3.90's and the T5, I was on the limiter in the first 3 gears.

 

At least it is not as abrupt as the stock limiter.

 

We need a billet aluminum underdrive pulley from Unorthodox Racing. Seems to me with as much popularity as the L6 has, someone would come up with something.

 

Wonder if the dampner from a Skyline would work?

[yo2001]

I think one off L4 will fit. I'm thinking I'll try one like 510 or something.

[jeffp]

I called Brian today and the dampeners are on their way back to him. He thinks he has a solution for all of the dampeners. He mentioned that they are going to make a standard dampener and machine the pully's (of the various types) to bolt on the unit. Sounds like a winner to me. The units will be lighter, that is good and I am guessing they will be made of aluminum, that is way cool. I will keep you updated on the progerss.

[Lockjaw]

PLease do, and have you noticed the "big turbo guys" are conspicuous in their absence?

[pparaska]

Wow! ~500 flywheel HP!

 

Awesome. I can't even imagine how you can get that to hook up. My measly 350 or so flywheel HP from my V8 is overpowering my 255/45-17 Pilots. Of course, they are a bit old and hard .

 

Congrats!

[TimZ]

Originally posted by Lockjaw:

PLease do, and have you noticed the "big turbo guys" are conspicuous in their absence?

Not sure what that's supposed to mean - I didn't know I was suddenly the enemy.

 

Those are very impressive numbers, Jeff - congrats.

[jeffp]

Thanks Tim, I was a little bothered by the harmonic dampener tho, really messed up my test. I think I am going to do the turbo thing first with the car and then continue the cam project. I made a few calls today and decided on a turbo for the car. I think I am going to hold off on the T66 compressor for now and go with a To4E .60 compressor housing with a 62-1 wheel. The exhaust will be a couple of choices, but I need to make another call and decide then. I really dont want to go to the T4 exhaust, but I just might end up there, but for now I will try this setup and see what that does.

I really need to get the power curve a little more flat line, and I think with a little tweeking I can get it, but it just takes time to get the right combination of parts that will work good together.

I got to get this dampener issue solved once and for all. I am really hoping Brian will come up with a unit that will last. I cant be changing out dampeners every 7K miles.

You know, I am starting to get real surprised that T5 doesn't break, that is allot of torque going through that tranny.

anyway I guess it'stime to putthe car up on jack stands again, I hate pulling the intake off that car.

[Lockjaw]

Nah TimZ you are not the enemey, I am just being a smart alec.

 

I am excited to see some nice BIG numbers from a car with an EFI set-up like mine and without having to resort to the big turbo. I like the response my hybrid has, and wanted to stay with a hybrid for that reason, and packaging.

[TimZ]

Originally posted by Lockjaw:

Nah TimZ you are not the enemey, I am just being a smart alec.

Yeah, I was kind of tired when I read that - probably overreacted.

 

Jeff - should I infer that this is somebody from Unorthodox Racing that is making you a dampner? If so, I just have to say that I'm a bit leary of them - is this piece actually going to be a dampner (with some sort of mass-spring system), or is it just going to be a pulley? I'm asking because I've never seen anything but pulleys from them.

 

This is kind of important, since the stroker crank ought to be more prone to torsional vibration due to the longer crank throws. This is most likely the reason that strokers seem to be be more prone to breaking dampners. Going to a pulley with less damping (actually no damping) will just make the situation worse for the crank. If you just need a single groove pulley, the ATI piece looked like a better idea.

 

Now if somebody just made a dual groove pulley dampner- I'd like to keep my AC if I could...

 

Now, maybe I'm way off with my notions about unorthodox, but from what I've seen about them from different forums, they seem to be able to machine a very nice looking piece, but there doesn't seem to be much in the way of R&D to back them up.

[johnc]

Latest issue of Circle Track Magazine has a 5 page article about crankshaft harmonics and balancers. One point made is that a properly designed balancer actually frees up torque that's normally lost via negative throw deflection. In a tested 540hp Chevy V8 that worked out to 35-40 ft. lbs. in an otherwise balanced reciprocating assembly.

[D83ZXT]

Congrats Jeff!

 

Yahoo

 

Donna

[RB26powered74zcar]

Myself also would be very intrested in a nice aftermarket harmonic ballancer, as I've already gone thru 4 oem ones due to cracks at the key way. Like TimZ, I would like to continue using my a/c, with the need for a double groove.

 

Seems that before I went to the stroker crank, I never had that problem. Also I can say that having to cut so much material off the back side of the dampner for the TEC2 trigger wheel install, it dosen't stand a chance of lasting very long.

Mine has also spun the outer groove peice off it's rubber absorber, rendering the timing marks useless.

 

So... if anyone comes up with a hit on a better replacement, I'm all ears...

 

thanks

joel

[Lockjaw]

I got an idea, get rid of the stroker crank.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

Well I don't care about AC when the engine ends up in my 260Z, so what could I use? Maybe the racing pulley?

 

What about one from a Skyline. I mean it is an inline 6. Surely there has to be something for it because they twist those engines up there.

 

Maybe one of our engineering geniuous's (spelling) could make one.

 

My friend put the orthodox pully(dampner) on his 300ZXTT and it made a big difference. Of course it doesn't have a long crank.

[jeffp]

>Jeff - should I infer that this is somebody from Unorthodox Racing that is making you a dampner? <

 

Hi Tim, no this is another company that is doing the R&D on this part. I keep getting the name mixed up so I wont say who they are, except that the gut I talk to is named Brian.

 

I was refered to them by one of the companies I was tring to get to do a dampener. Funny thing about that is that it seemed like a trail right behind Dave Robello that landed me in the same place.

 

This will be an honest to goodness dampener for our cars. I wouldn't have bothered with them if it was not. They will make the single shiv pully and the three shiv pully so you can have your A/C and power steering if you want that to, hey Donna, right up your alley with your car, and my car. I told Brian I wanted the third pully bolt on just like the stock unit and he said no problem. Rest assured if it was not a viable solution, Dave Robello would have dumped the prospects long ago. Those guys are turning the engines they build to 8500 rpm, really crazy stuff.

 

I am hopeful this will be a good solution and save engines and some money in the long run. Right now I am chicken to even run my car with the dampener the way it is.

 

Get rid of the stroker, yea that longed rod, long throw crank, reminds me of an old WWll jeep, what a dog LOL

 

I have been waiting on a number of upgrades to my car to get this part. I still need to do the oil pan, and a brass oil pump gear, and I would like to do all of them at the same time. Frankly I am tired of getting under the car, so I am going to wait an all this stuff, including a manual rack and pinion steering unit that will require the cross member to be changed out also, so what better time to do the oil pan. I keep eyeing the cross member on the floor. I have it almost ready to install. I welded all the spot welds and seams on the part and just need to have it powder coated to finish it up. I have all the new parts for the rack also. I need to get off my butt and get the parts down for coating and put them together.

 

I have decided on a turbo and will get that going here Monday. I also need to do myself a big favor and find out exactly what the back pressure is right now, got to take the turbo lose to get a fitting on the spacer for the pressure gauge, under the car again I guess. Really I am almost done with the car LOL or at least I find some new gadget to install for something LOL

 

That is my story and I'm stickin to it. LOL

 

I will keep you guys updated on what is happening with the dampener. I know it will be a good seller, and I was thinking of letting David at innovative Zcar know about it so he can sell it through his business.

[D83ZXT]

This sounds great and all. But for me it would have to made exactly as the stock unit. Joel, I didn't know you had to shave yours. I didn't but then my trigger wheel mounts in front of my harmonic balancer and pully. I did have a machined billet aluminum insert made so I was able to keep my A/C.

What about using the harmonic balancer that actually came with these diesel cranks? This would be defeating the idea of a lighter unit. Due to they might be a little bit heavier, perhaps a bit bigger??? But, then maybe we wouldn't have the problems as we do running with the stock Z unit with the diesel crank not being able to last a long time due to the vibrations.

Me... personally, I would rather have longevity then trying to gain every once of HP from my engine. But then I'm always open for new ideas

 

Donna

I miss my ZXT

[240Z Turbo]

Wow, I go to the beach for a 3.5 day weekend and this! I am glad I don't fall into that "BIG TURBO GUY" bracket with my little 16G turbo's. Tim and Joel are the real enemies with their larger T-series monsters. JeffP you are on the right track with the 62-1, but I sure hope you are not running an internal wastegate. I just can't remember. I think the combo of the cam and inefficient compressor are killing the topend power, but it would not seem likely you would heat soak in a single gear pull that fast??? I saw that you keep advancing your cam timing, +4deg. Retarding gives better top-end power. You might try going the other way. TimZ can better explain the theory behind that one. As for me and my little turbo's, the new IC is being fabbed, new oil cooler being installed(TimZs old one) and the Nitto 555R's fit nicely under the back end! BTW, JeffP you need to drive your car to the Montgommery drag race event so I can stomp a mudhole in your ass! HEHE!