Mikelly Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Took off today as I was scheduled for a home appraisal for some bill consolidation/ home improvement/ HUGE ASS GARAGE INSTALL and decided I'd go ahead and completely tear down the motor... First off, My aluminum head FELL off the deck of the motor after I had removed the head bolts bolts. It was near level and I still don't know how it came off the deck..no apparent damage there. Get to the oil pan and drop it off the block and I find that my pickup screen and block for the pickup tube had broken free from the tube... Not a good weld job on that... I need to contact Meloden on that one. On removing pistons, one dropped and cracked. They are cast Silv-O-lite claimers, which shouldn't be too expensive to replace one on. However, you guys have me thinking about my rods, and I may go ahead and do the pistons as well... and upon looking at the rod bearings, there is evendince of contamination from something (I suspect gasoline) on the rod side bearings. All of the cap side bearings look good, with no wear evident, yet significant on the rod side... Motor is completely down except for the crank. Gonna leave it alone until I decide on the piston/ rod issue. Couldn't believe I broke a piston... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny411 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Mike,I have a complete set of silvolite hyperutectic pistons, they are still in the 383 on 5.7 rods(this engine has never been run) I`m interested in selling them w/o the rods, they have been weight matched.The only problem is that they are in Oh, and I`m in Al, right now.food for thought anyway.If you`re not interested maybe someone else here would be.Oh yea...they are 10.5;1 w/ 64cc chambers.it will probably be more than a month or so before I can have them out and ready to ship.I`m not sure exactly when I`ll get back there next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Mike, do you got the dropsies today? Or is your hand not cooperating with you today? Lucky you didn't drop that head on your foot! That would look good, a cast on your hand and one on your foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 31, 2002 Author Share Posted January 31, 2002 Denny, thanks, but these parts have less than 3k miles on them. What I'll likely do is replace the piston for $20 (Jegs) or replace the set with some forged units and some Scat Rods. YUp, Mike KZ, I'd love to blame it on the bum hand, but I was no where near the motor when the head fell, and I dropped the piston with my left hand...Right one has the brace on it... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Mikelly get a set of the (h)beam/7/16" bolt cap screw eagle or prowler 4340 forged steel rods and you will be WAY beter off than useing the stock chevy rods HP5700 4340 H Beam 5.7 $329.00 HP6000 4340 H Beam 6 $329.00 (prowler) CRS5700 EAGLE RACING 4340 STEEL H BEAM 5.7$389.00 CRS6000 EAGLE RACING 4340 STEEL H BEAM 6 $389.00 AND READ THIS http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/uhs89734.htm http://www.babcox.com/editorial/cm/cm99828.htm http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm SHORT ANSWER< LONGER RODS ARE BETTER! and if your going to change pistons get the 6" rods and matching pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scott Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 Yikes! Not to be throwing my whole shopping list at you, but the SRP forged (JE) are a fairly inexpensive. $450? Like Grumpy said, the 6" is supposed to good for a little more power and lighter to boot. Might give them a look. Consider staying out of the garage for the rest of the day Grumpy, aren't the H beams overkill, 6-700hp? After finding out the HP ratings on the I beams, I returned mine and went the forged I beam 4340 with capscrew. JS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted January 31, 2002 Share Posted January 31, 2002 I haven't been able to find a REALLY good discussion of the benefits of H-beam over I-beam and under what situations. What about turbo engines? One thread I found stated that H-beams are great for High Rpms, but not a LOT of torque. (Once again - just passing on what I read - I don't know enough to comment - that's why I'm posting this) I'm hoping for some MAJOR illumination here.... Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohzrd Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 about the only type of rods i'll put in a motor for performance use are h-beams. in the past they were to expensive but now they are aren't too bad. they are more then up to the challenge that just about any streetable engine could dish out at them. i feel the extra $$$ spent on the bottom end is well worth it in the long run. just a more comfy feeling to me in case i over rev or spray it longer than need be. just my thought on it though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 look this over http://www.engr.rutgers.edu/~llongo/4K.html http://www.engr.rutgers.edu/~llongo/8K.html http://www.engr.rutgers.edu/~llongo/12K.html http://www.vrand.com/ex1.htm http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/rod-tech-c.htm http://www.vips.co.uk/demos/mech/conrod.htm http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/NewsInfo/NewsRels/NR110299E.html http://www.hayabusazone.com/rods.html http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m0BUW/5_40/61204109/print.jhtml NOTICE that the connecting rods high stress areas are areas the rod is under TENSION NOT COMPRESSION , most people fail to realize rods tend to fail on the exhaust stroke where there is less opposeing force slowing the piston as it nears tdc, rods commonly fail from being streached not compressed, and the points the tend to fail at are the rod bolts, or just under the small end holding the piston pin and the large end where the rod changes size to go around the crank journal, now it mostly depends on the QUALITY of materials used, the care used in manufactureing and overall design but (H) type rods normally place more steel in these stressed areas for the total weight of the rod than (I) type rods so thats why you see those type rods in the higher stressed engines but like I said a QUALITY rod of EITHER DESIGN works fine, and its the rod BOLTS that normally fail first,or the area just under the piston pin from stress cracks when you pull an engine apart and find the rod broken in most cases a rod bolt failed first and as the crank started slapping the loose rod against the block it bent and broke the rod, its not normal to find a big end of the rod still on the crank with good bearings and bolts yet broken in the center area , look again at the stress analysis color photos ans see what IM talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JAMIE T Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Dang Mike, you've had a day like mine. I was grinding a rusted out Alfa Romero GTV today, and the grinder bound up in a rust hole and twisted around and grinded my wrist with 36 grit . Sorry to hear about your engine trouble. You should have been taking it easy anyway, like the wife said. Get better and put some forged pistons and H beams in that engine. You won't regret it. Lighter weight, balanced, smoother revving engine. Those claimer pistons are heavy, that stuff is for stock engines. Durability at 200mph is what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 1, 2002 Author Share Posted February 1, 2002 ...And to make matters worse... I think I got the screw job on the motor build. I was supposed to get C&A ZG Rings(Nada), Wavelock rod bolts (Nope), and a crank scraper (Zip)... I won't complain for the money I paid ($2900 intake to oilpan) but I won't be doing the crate motor thing again...once bit, twice shy... Still doing research on the connecting rods and I've found these: http://www.racepartsstore.com/connecti.html (Eagle SIRs) but they aren't dowled. I'm still looking and any help would be mucho appreciated.. My pain level is about $300. I'll be selling my 5.7 Pink Rods for sure. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Mike, that really bites. There should be some kind of list with disreputable builders on it that we could access. Are you going to give them a call perhaps??? Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RON JONES Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Stay away from the Eagle 3-D H beems.Made in Japan and not known for quality control.Just ask Brad Barkley,He broke an Eagle 3-D rod and took out his entire Engine!!I don't know how many of remember this,but he posted pics of the motor after it came apart.Eagle 3-D failure!I have heard of other simalar storys as well.I do have a friend that has a set and is useing them on his thrid sesion though,hit or miss,You might get a good set,or you might get a set with one of those BAD ones in there.My pic on a steel rod would be a Lunati I beam Pro mod rod($689.00)or a Manley Sportsmaster I beam($529.95)the Lunati Rod is rated to for medium to high HP aplacations.The Manley rod is rated to 550HP.If your Buying New don't short change your self here,you get what You pay for!I know Guys that run the Manley Rod in SBC's at 600HP with no problems.Don't Buy cheep rods,one breaks,and you'll be real sorry You didn't spend a little extra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 Bearing damage just on the rod side is often a sign of detonation. Your cast piston may have been weakened from that as well. Forged pistons are a no brainer, but for a steet motor, I think a lighter set of I beam rods is probably a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biohzrd Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 i totally agree with ron. the better the quality parts on the bottom end the better. the chance of a block living with a rod failure at 6000+ rpm is not good. in my case i'd really be out of luck. i run a 400 block and to find a good one is getting harder everyday. higher quality doesn't alway have to come at a higher price. shop around and do some research. i would also shy away from used rods and cranks unless you know who your getting them from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 1, 2002 Author Share Posted February 1, 2002 OK Grumpy, What is a good piston combo for 6 inch rod 383 stroker, with large lift hydraulic roller cam (Isky # 201282294) and 205/160 valves on Dart conquest 215 cc runner 76cc chamber heads??? Mike Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 1, 2002 Share Posted February 1, 2002 heres what I use in alot of engines I build ad as of today some of them have been in use for a few years and thousands of 1/4 mile passes,with no trouble, 1-383FHPS-LR 4340 Forged Crank, 350 Main, 3.750" Stroke, 6.000" Forged H Beam Rods and 4.030" Bore SRP Forged Pistons (THIS KIT WILL INTERNAL BALANCE WITH NO MALLORY METAL) http://www.scatcrankshafts.com/smblkchevyrotating.html now I used the corrillo 6" rods but the scat forged crank(internally ballanced) with a fluid damper and the TRICKFLOW #TFS-31504110 10/1 CPR PISTONS AND TOTAL SEAL RINGS IN MY LAST PERSONAL 383 btw IM RUNNING A .575/.595 LIFT 230/236 DURRATION CAM CRANE # 119661 (1.6 ROLLER ROCKERS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Grumpy, with those last figures on the cam you just mentioned, what kind of horsepower is you motor putting out? I was thinking of building a long rod 383, but I thought it would be way to expensive. Perhaps I need to think it over again! I guess 'reasonable' compression (for use on pump gas) is obtainable with the larger sized combustion chamber heads that Mike mentioned. With 76cc chambers, what is a streetable compression ratio that is easily ($$$) obtainable? I guess the bottom line is the overall $$$$ of the engine; custom pistons and the like get really pricey, but then again, I don't know if I have to push a 383 to 6000+ rpm and get a Z to move. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 im pulling about 470hp/520tq, I could easily get more but im not trying for max hp im trying for a good ,powerfull , dependable ,street combo. my 3500lb vette can run 11.8s or so but the wheel spin is the limiting factor slicks would make it faster but again street not strip is my goal,and Im running a 2.87 rear gear so that i can run 175mph with a 1/2 mile head start which is what I like to do, in your much lighter Z-car very low 11s are going to be easy with a 383sbc roller engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted February 2, 2002 Share Posted February 2, 2002 Thanks, Grumpy. That's really all I need to know--that sounds like a streetable engine, great hp w/mega torque, and can run on pump gas. I want to build one just like that for my Z. I appreciate the info and the 'recipe' for a great motor. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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