Engine Managment systems

[Nismo280zEd]

So in the future i'm prolly gonna convert over and save myself some hassle of 24 year old electronic technology. What engine managments systems are you guys using? or planing on?

[Guest 81na ZX]

Just doing a little research myself for a V8 fuel injected swap/buildup:

 

Electromotive TEC3 - everyone I've talked to loves this system.

 

Haltec E6K - ~$1145 - Lots of Rotary guys love it

 

MoTeC M48 - Not as complex as the M800, so it might be the right choice for me.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am also looking into purchasing an engine management system. I've been strongly considering the Haltech EK6. Where can I purchase one of these? There aren't any dealers in my area. Anyone selling on the net?

-jeremy-

[Owen]

If my post is still there in the For Sale section, I'm selling mine.

http://www.hybridz.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001714

Price is negotiable.

 

Email me if you're interested.

 

Owen

[Bob_H]

I would give a serious look at Perfect Power. They are a South African Company that is expanding into the US. I very seriously considered their PRS-8 system till I found out I could only drive 5 coils,(that may have recently changed). I needed to drive 6. I could drive 3 wasted spark, but that meant giving up the stock 6 coil setup on the RB26.

The price is $895,(or 8 something). Their software has a good interface and their tech support is quick. I e-mailed several hard questions to them about my setup and they were prompt in their response every time. Haltech on the otherhand didn't respond at all. Food for thought. Haltech as I recall is in Austraila and can be tough to get ahold of personally for tech support. The website for the PRS systems is

Perfect Power

And the PRS-8 I was considering is:

The PRS systems

Ken Jones is using them for his FI conversion on his 3.1. He recently wrote a series of articles in SportsZ about his 3.1 buildup and tuning.

I also like the interface and features of the Link EMS. It is about $500 more expensive for what I needed,($1295 for the full feature one, $895 for the base feature one). However I liked the interface better. You may be able to get away with the lower system as you don't need to drive as many functions as I do. Here is a link to my post asking about it. It has the link to the site:

Hybridz post

-Bob

[Owen]

Haltech Australia was very helpful to me, they also have an office in Texas somewhere. But I had gotten to know one of the techs at the Australian site so well that I kept contacting him.

Owen

[Drax240z]

Lets not forget SDS in this discussion. Pretty straightforward system with a great price. Doesn't offer all the bells and whistles of some other systems mind you.

 

www.sdsefi.com

[pparaska]

If you want only fuel control, laptop programming, and you're not afraid of DIY electronics, probably the cheapest thing is:

 

http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html

[Tony240ZT]

The volumetric effciency graphical display is pretty neat on the MegaSquirt software. Anyone have a web page that explains how VE applies to fuel ratios and such in plain english? Seems to me it'd be hard to calculate your engine's VE.

 

My Wolf3D system was fairly strait forward to wire up, has a wasted spark setup, and similar sequential fuel injection setup on a 6 cylinder. http://wolfems.com/ cost me $1500 shipped with a modified cam possition sensor pickup. Can be configured with a PC (data logging), and fuel/ignition maps can be monitored and modified in real time with a hand held LCD display. Will drive many different types of injectors, multiple I/O's anolog and digital. PWM for boost control, idle control, etc.

[Owen]

I don't think you can calculate actual VE, not at home anyway. It all depends on your cam, intake, exhaust, etc. You have to tell the system you estimate of VE.

 

For some management systems, you set a target A/F ratio, the O2 measures actual A/F, and the computer adjust fuel accordingly. If your system supports the readout, 0% O2 correction is ideal.

 

The Megasquirt looks pretty decent. But for those with loftier goals in mind, supercharging/turbos etc., I don't think the system can hang without much work. What I don't like about it:

+It's decribed as "experimental" right at the top.

+It's only been installed on two cars so far. Who will be guinea pig number 3?

+Switching from bank fire to sequential fire requires additional software (and hardware?) mods.

+Switching from speed density to alpha-N requires additional software mods.

+The MAP sensor is internal.

+It doesn't control ignition.

 

I don't know why they use the tach signal as a reference, to me, a cam-sync or crank angle signal would be much better. Who knows?

 

Not trying to knock anyone who's bought this system, I am just wary of it's experimental state and the fact that changes to the system require more mods when most EFI management systems have these built in already. And knowing my electronics skills, if something went wrong, they would say I built it wrong...

 

Owen

[pparaska]

I have my order in for the Megasquirt and it'll probably be here in a month.

 

The megasquirt was developed by a few guys that wanted a CHEAP fuel injection computer. The guys the developed it and those that seem to put it on their cars are people who don't mind fangling the induction and fuel system together from various parts to get a cheap system.

 

I'm pretty sure that there are more than 2 people running them. Join the megasquirt mail list and or forum, and you'll see that people all over the globe have it on motorcycles to V-12 jags. Not sure how many are running, but it's got to be more than 2. I'm going to try it with the Holley TBI I bought, but it's going to be interesting as I have to adapt an on/off IAC instead of the GM stepper motor type one that's on the Holley TBI. That's simple though - use an EGR solenoid tapped into manifold vacuum. I'm going to try it with the map sensor (which can be put anywhere - in the computer or on the engine, BTW) and tach signal.

 

All the software is free. This is like a unix. User run, user supported. A bunch of ee's and computer geeks that program in assembler. Most of the list traffic goes over my head.

 

They are also designing an companion MegaJolt DIY electronic ignition computer. It'll have Ion feedback, knock sensor controll, etc., laptop programming, and other options.

 

This all stemmed from the DIY-EFI group that got started probably 10 years ago. They also have an EFI332 system that is pretty advanced with ignition as well, but is not for the beginner.

 

I just couldn't see spending $900 on a Commander 950, and I want laptop tuning (so SDS is out). The megasquirt will be a cheap (about $125 for the kit) fun project. If I can't get it to work, not great loss - I'll get rid of it and do the commander 950 which is available as a retro fit kit for my TBI.

 

I also am thinking about taking a Offenhauser brand copy of the Smokey Ram manifold and putting injectors in the base and mounting a big air door on the top plate. I could probably do that for less than $500. But if the TBI works out (and isn't too small for my uses) I'll probably hang with it for a while.

[Owen]

I envy people like you Pete! Those who have the brains enough to get stuff to work! Me? I'm a moron and have to depend on ready made stuff

 

Let us know how it goes!

 

Owen

[Bernardd]

I think they've got over 30 cars as well as at least 5 bikes using the megasquirt system. The only extra software needed is if you want to switch to alpha N. That's as simple as downloading new code to the controller and away you go. The people on the list fall all over themselves to help newbies (similiar to this forum). I've got a system put together but I haven't installed it yet. Downside is you can't control ignition yet but a couple of guys have the megajolt system running but no group buy yet.

Bernard

[Guest jt240z]

A Haltech E11 just went up for sale on eBay. Check out the description. I was told by the seller that the E11 should be officialy released on Monday. Someone bought it within 5 hours.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1872151502

 

By the way, anyone looking to sell their E6K?

 

JT240Z

[RB30-ZED]

In the Kalmaker/Delco system you can calculate the engines VE by using the O2 sensors correction table, or long term fuel trim table.

You use this information to make corrections to the VE table. Once the VE table is correct you can set the Air Fuel ratio tables to run any ratio you like and it will be correct. This normally is set to work in the 20KPA to 80KPA absolute manifold pressure range (14.7:1), but can be set to run the whole range just for tunning.

A big advantage of the Kalmaker system is that even though its from OZ you guys in the States can use local GM sensors, wiring looms and computers. Take a look. WWW.kalmaker.com.au

Steven

[Moridin]

What about the new AEM engine management system that they've been promoting. I don't know all the features, but it is expandable. I've had my heart set on the TEC 2 or 3. I've heard good things about the AEM system, but that may have been from the uneducated. Anyways, just a thought.

[Ivan280zt]

well the good thing about AEM system is that it just plugs in factory harness. no mods required just replaces your old computer and it comes as bolt on (as far as i know could be wrong?). good thing is that you dont have to modify anything (like getting your pulley machined for crank pickup) and the price range is about $1200-$1500 and it should be on the same level as haltech tec... and of course bad news (there is always bad news lol) its not awailable for our application (i mean 280zxt) but i really hope that i am wrong. i am not good at all with electronics but with help of this great site i am getting better with it

[Mudge]

Megasquirt looks good, that + an MSD timing box may be what I end up using.

 

There is a program called VEmaster, but its for FBodies, so you can sort of calculate VE based on logs (if you have BLMs, or you can sort of guess with O2 readings, but narrow bands aren't good for that purpose), then VEmaster will modify your ECU/ECM/PCM image and you upload it and do more logging.

 

The source code is available I believe, so someone could make use of it, although since we'd all have fairly different controllers and logging abilities, that doesn't make it the most usefull for everybodies purposes.

[Guest jt240z]

I'm trying to find anyone who has or is using the Haltech E6k on there turbo L28. I have an E6K coming from Australia and I would like to get some basic information on how it works before it arrives. Things like how are you triggering the ignition, what does your fuel map look like and what kind of support are you geting. Anyone out there or am I the first to use this in this application?

 

Thanks

[z-ya]

I just discovered the whole Megasquirt thing, and I think it's awesome! I'm thinking seriously about building one for our local club's race car (10:1 NA L28). I was going to use the FI out of a 78' 280Z, but I may just go for the Megasquirt.

 

As far as an internal MAP sensor being a dissadvantage, I'd have to dissagree. My Wold 3D has one, and it works great. The Wolf must scale the MAP sensor output. By changing a switch setting, I can change the MAP range to atmospheric, 12psi, or 21psi. Easy hookup too (one hose).

 

Pete