Guest jt240z Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 I was looking at an upgrade for my T3/T4 turbo in the future and came across one for sale. They say it's a new never used T04 thats normaly used as a Mozda upgrade, but they don't say much else. The only other information I have now is that the turbo is .96 A/R on the turbine and a .66 A/R on the compressor. What other questions should I be asking this guy before I decide to buy it? How can I tell with pictures wether it's a T04B or T04E compressor? What specs should I be shooting for if I'm trying to get over 350 RWHP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jt240z Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 I talked to the guy and he said that he only knows that the turbo is new and the compressor is a T04B .66 A/R with a P trim wheel. I have no info on the turbine side other then its a T4 with a .96 A/R and 4 bolt flang. What do you guys think? Will this spool too slow? How much power do you think this is good for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 I can't answer for sure, but a TO4 turbine of .96 sounds like it would be a real chore to spool up. Honestly I don't know how a smaller engine like a Mazda rotary can use it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 I would think it's a T04B if it's for a rotary. The rotary can use a bigger turbo ecause it's got 3 pulses per rev. P-trim suppose to work well with well equiped L28. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jt240z Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 What size would you recommend. Right now I'm runing a T3/T04b hybrid. The turbo spools supper fast with boost coming in at 2500. My problem is two fold. First I don't know what the specs on the turbo are except that it's a T3/T04b with a 300ZX center section, 3" inlet and 2" outlet and an internal waste gate. Second, when I did the dyno runs, I found that the power came in strong and hard, but petered out by 4500 RPMs. I'm looking at increasing the turbo size in order to gain additional top end. Right now at 14PSI boost I'm only getting 287HP at the wheels, but 348 ft/lbs of torque. My plan was to up the turbo and increase the exhaust diameter in order to get more top end. I'd like to run 18 to 20psi boost and have a solid 350HP+ at the wheels. I'm runing a Haltech system with 550cc injectors,Walbro 255 l/hr pump and a Skyline GT-R intercooler, so I don't think thats a limiter. How does gearing effect these numbers. Right now, I'm runing 3.9:1 Non-LSD rear end. I may have been getting wheel spin on the dyno. I was planning on going with a 3.7:1 LSD with CVs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 rotary rated at 1.3 cc.. but thats only one side of each rotor. if you go a full rev on a rotary its actually a 3.9 liter motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Go with 60-1 You would want T04E housing, they are 5% more efficient. I don't know about T4 turbine housing but P-trim suppose to be a nice size. I like the Stage V T3 turbine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 The turbine housing on that turbo is way to large, you will have a hard time spooling it. A hybrid works fine, but you may need to look at upgrading the compressor wheel. At 14 psi, you aren't that high yet, and I would throw some more boost at it. Power with a stock cam is not going to be strong in the upper end, mine ran out of steam too, and you may need to look at a camshaft swap and or portwork. You need to know what you have to make a change. A stage 3 10 blade turbine wheel is nice and will drive most any wheel up to a 60-1, but I would step up to the stage 5 10 blade and run a 60-1 if you want to make some power. Stay away from the TO4B housing and run a TO4E. Personally I like having my boost come in low like that, mine was full on by 2800 and it hit like a freight train. If you can harness it, it is a lot of fun to drive one like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jt240z Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 Looks like that was my initial mistake. The same one that so many seem to make... Not enough turbo. I should have gone with a to4E to start with. The T04E with a 60-1 wheel and a T3 stage III or V looks like the right route. You're right about the low end power being fun though. I may drive it this way for a while. I just picked up some new wider rubber( 225/60ZR-15 Yokohama AVS Intermediates) and that along with the 3.7:1 LSD should help the hookup problems a little. Now I just need to find a good source for a new custom turbo. Does anyone know about how gearing effects dyno results? How would changing from a 3.9 to a 3.7 rear end effect my results? Thanks for the help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 i went with a smaller tire which would about the same as going from a 3.90 to a 4.11. i gained horsepower on the dyno, MPH and et at the track. i would assume going down in gearing would do the opposite ... unless of course your allready to hi in gearing then it would do nothing but help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 15, 2003 Share Posted February 15, 2003 My last trip to the track was with 3.90's versus the stock 3.56's. On a sick turbo I still dropped a tenth of a second over my fastest time before, this during an 85 degree day versus a cool night. I was all over the rev limiter at 7k on the JWT box in the first 3 gears. I am sure with a better turbo and cooler temps I would have dropped more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 I talked to the guy and he said that he only knows that the turbo is new and the compressor is a T04B .66 A/R with a P trim wheel. I have no info on the turbine side other then its a T4 with a .96 A/R and 4 bolt flang. What do you guys think? Will this spool too slow? How much power do you think this is good for? I will try to be nice. You have info on the turbine side when you said it was a P-trim. That is the turbine wheel. You have also said .96 a/r which is also the turbine side a/r. You also said 4-bolt flange which signifies it is an on-center housing. Do NOT buy things when you do NOT know what you are talking about. Do some research 1st before you buy a turd you cannot use. I am not trying to be a detective(dick), but..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jt240z Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 You are being a dick. First off, I made only one mistake in the post. I accidentily put the P trim on the compressor side not the turbine side. This was a typo, not intended. All the rest was just as I stated. I did say that "other then" the .96A/R was the turbine side and I did say that it had the 4 bolt flange. This implied that it was an on center outlet. If you are such a "Hybrid Z Guru", then please suggest instead of just bashing. If you have suggestions on what would work best, the do that. Your contribution to this thread is NILL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jt240z Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 OK, I just did some calculations and what I get is this: For a 168ci (2800cc) engine running at 6800 RPMS and 20PSI boost using a VE of 85% and a Adiabatic Efficiency(AE) of say 70% I get: Inlet Volume of 32.8 lbs/min and a Pressure ratio of 2.36:1 If this is true then the following compressor map should work: T04E 60 Trim Map Is this correct? Calculating the compressor side seems to be a fairly simple exercise, but how do you figure on what the turbine side should be? What does it take to turn a T04E 60 and still get decent spool up? I'm sorry for being short on the previous post, but I burns me when someone slams me for asking a poorly worded question, but doesn't offer a solution. I'm much better now that I've had my first cup of coffee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 a full t04e should get you at 350rwhp pretty easy if you have everything beefed up to take it. hoovers turbo makes 500hp with a ball bearing t3/t4 with 15psi pump gas, plenty building though. man i cant make any sense of those dang compressor maps!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 http://www.turboneticsinc.com/comp_maps/fig9.html I was told, if Iwas to going to go with 60 trim E, then just go with 60-1 more expansion room. Your car should have enough tunablility to handle 60-1. And look into Stage V or Garrett GT style 10 blade Stage III. I was told GT style wheel is 10-20% less backpressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest storm280z Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 how ever started this post that is loooking to upgrade their t3/t4 if you get that new turbo can i buy your hybrid turbo. b/c im looking for a new one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted February 16, 2003 Share Posted February 16, 2003 You are being a dick. First off' date=' I made only one mistake in the post. I accidentily put the P trim on the compressor side not the turbine side. This was a typo, not intended. All the rest was just as I stated. I did say that "other then" the .96A/R was the turbine side and I did say that it had the 4 bolt flange. This implied that it was an on center outlet. If you [b']are[/b] such a "Hybrid Z Guru", then please suggest instead of just bashing. If you have suggestions on what would work best, the do that. Your contribution to this thread is NILL. Well said, I apologize. You said you had limited info on the turbine side, but you listed all the info on the turbine side. I did not designate myself a "HybridZ GURU," but I appreciate the designation. I did not bash you, you were most likely just embarassed? I did "suggest" to you. I suggested you do some homework before you make a post that shows your limited knowledge and before you buy a turbo that you have no idea about. A P-trim .96 a/r will not spool. P-trim .58 a/r or .70a/r will work in most cases, but anything larger will be lazy on a standard z setup w/out nitrous. BooHoo, I hurt your feelings and I am truly sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240Z Turbo Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Thank you for the e-mail JT240Z. It was so nice I thought I should share it with others! Now if that is not the pot calling the kettle black This is why I hardly post, because people just can't stand a dissenting opinion. If you are gonna post when you seemingly don't have a clue, then why should you not expect some criticism. I was trying to help by telling you to do some further research so you would not waste your money. I also said a .96 a/r on a p-trim would not spool. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:25:30 -0500 From: Tomsits <odyssey@mindspring.com> To: jthagard@wombat.eng.fsu.edu Subject: Student DICK You are the dick I thought you were. The PH "D" must be for student DICK. Some day, you'll realize that, you yourself, don't know it all either. I hope when that day comes, you'll be left in the dark with some argent kid trying to make himself look smart. You know nothing about what I am or what I know. I make one lousy post on a simple topic that, you may know more about <bold>at this time</bold>, and assume that you have all the knowledge in the world. A PHD at FSU...Now that's a joke. The HYBRIDZ forum was design to aid in the growth of knowledge, not to suppress it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted February 17, 2003 Share Posted February 17, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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