Guest zfan Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I am currently running Edelbrock rpm 64cc heads with 170cc runners on my 355 sbc. I would like to put a better set of heads on my sbc. I have 10.3 to 1 compression with these heads and would like to go no less than that compression wise. I could go thinner gasket if need be. I found a set of afr's with 195 runners for 1099.00 out of the box, what experiences do you guy's have afr heads and does anyone have any other suggestions? I am currently running a hydraulic roller cam, comp cam 224/230-502/510 at 110 ls with 1.50 roller rockers. I have another comp cam hydraulic roller that is 238/244-520/540 with 110 ls. My current intake is a Weiand stealth dualplane and I have 1 5/8" long tube hooker headers. Can I expect much power gain going from the 170cc edelbrocks to the afr 195cc's? I am currently running mid 12's and should go low 12's this season with the edelbrocks but would like to see 11's! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I seem to remember that our venerable GrunpyVette touts the Canfields pretty heavily. I don't have any experience with them, but if Grumpy likes them........ http://www.canfieldheads.com/sbc.html Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z ya Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 zfan, How bout a CSI carb spacer and electric water pump? Should be good for 20 hp or so. Maybe a little blue bottle?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 73TPIZ Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 LITTLE BLUE BOTTLE!!! isn't that what the ford guys use to keep up with the chevys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 if you can get 195cc AFR heads for $1100 grab them! I sure would! just make sure which heads , are they the 74cc or 68cc heads?, personally if the AFR heads fit with either size Id grab them but Id prefer the 74cc chamber on the street, they should prove to be a big improvement over the edelbrock heads, and you should be able to sell your old heads to get some of the $$$ back http://www.airflowresearch.com/ LOK AT THE DIFFERANCE IN FLOW http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html THEY SHOULD BE WORTH A GOOD 30HP over the EDELBROCKS IF MATCHED TO THAT LARGER CAM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 if you can get 195cc AFR heads for $1100 grab them! I sure would!just make sure which heads ' date=' are they the 74cc or 68cc heads?, personally if the AFR heads fit with either size Id grab them but Id prefer the 74cc chamber on the street, they should prove to be a big improvement over the edelbrock heads, and you should be able to sell your old heads to get some of the $$$ back http://www.airflowresearch.com/ [img']http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/images/charts/195cc-Std-Head-Flow-Graph2.gif[/img] LOK AT THE DIFFERANCE IN FLOW http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html Hey Grump! You gonna make a liar out of re: the Canfields? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 the canfield heads and AFR heads are very close in performance, and $1100 is a good price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 There's a place that I'm talking with (Thunder Racing Products -330-792-2451) that sells complete Canfield 195s or 215s (new head) for $1190. Granted, I'd go for the AFRs for $100 less! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudge Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Canfields might have more meat for porting, I have heard that AFRs out of the box do not match what they claim, but I dont know first hand. When Canfield made stuff for the late model LT1 it was considered "the best" in terms of what could be done flow wise with runner size vs AFRs runner size, but the market wasn't there and they are NLA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Well after talking to the guy about the afr heads it turns out they only sell the modified afr's and they are 1250. per pair, no tax and free shipping. 4 week wait sucks and the price includes bowel work, cnc heads and springs set up for my hyd. roller cam. They are 68cc/195cc heads. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Oh, I thought you found someone who bought them and was getting rid of them. AFR makes you PAY for the name. And every little extra operation is super expense. Check out how much they get for drilling 400 steam holes, drill and tap temp sender passages, parts (studs, etc.). Everything is SO expensive with them. That really galls me. Canfields, 195s or 215s complete, (except studs, but with guide plates) are $1190 from Thunder Racing Products (330-792-2451) and probably others. Ken at Canfield advised me to call one of his vendors as they'd be cheaper that way. Thunder RP is close to them and Ken said that they would only sell stuff that Canfield did the work on, not buy bare castings and have someone else do it - Dave at Thunder Racing said that's the only way he'll sell them. Many, like Competition Products, possibly Jegs, buy the bare castings from Canfield and have someone else do the valve job. That makes a big difference in how they flow, from what I've heard. So I decided to only buy Canfields that CANFIELD did all the work on. Just to be fair, the AFRs are partially CNC ported, and have CNC chambers. The Canfields have CNC chambers at that above price. Full CNC porting of the Canfields is another $800 - ouch. BTW, the 215 heads are new. The 215s flow between the 195s and the 220s (which require offset intake rockers) and take standard rockers. Dave at Thunder Racing gave me these flow numbers for the 215s that he said came from Canfield: Lift - .100 - .200 - .300 - .400 - .500 - .600 - .700 Intake 62 - 141 - 207 - 255 - 270 - 279 - 283 Exhaust 43 - 112 - 152 - 173 - 184 - 195 - 213 That's versus the 195s: Lift - .100 - .200 - .300 - .400 - .500 - .600 - .700 Intake 72 - 145 - 201 - 247 - 258 - 259 - 259 Exhaust 53 - 107 - 143 - 175 - 190 - 200 - 203 .100 lift flow is lower on the 215s, .200 is close, but beyond that the 215s flow from 6 to 20 cfm more (.3 to .6" lift) on the intakes, and and -2 to 9 cfm more on the exhausts (.3" to .6"). Note that the published numbers from Canfield have the caveat: "mildly bowl blended ". I imagine the same for the 215s. That's o.k. I'll have that done or do a tiny bit myself. I'll also pay to have them tested afterwards (a pair of ports). I've decided that if 195s make sense on a 350, 215s make sense on a 400. Especially if the flow is that much better. If my cam/heads package are too soggy down low, I'd rather change down to the smaller cam I already have in the 327. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 hey zfan. i have a pair of afr 195 street heads cnc ported,milled to get me a 58cc combustion chamber.i paid a good deal more than $1200. the springs they had on the heads were single and my valves floated at 6000 rpm. with a double spring my valves are floating at 6500 rpm. i am thinking of adding one more shim but have to be careful of colapsing the lifter. to answere your question i am running a 236 242 w/510and 540 lift, 390 gear 3000 stall air gap rpm man,750 dp 1 5/8 blockhuggers. car ways 3159lbs with me in it. i am turning a best time of 11.56@118 mph and 60' @1.68. i recommend the larger of the two cams if you are going to run a low gear. they good for my application. and if any body knows about the hyd roller lifters on chevys, how to get them to run up to 7000 rpm, i sure would appreciate some advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeech Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Float at 6500 RPM is about what I would expect (with reasonable spring pressures) for a hydraulic roller. Me? I'm going with a solid roller myself. Since my daily driver is a Sequoia and this is my toy car anyway, then adjusting valves every ten thousand miles or so is no big deal. FWIW, I was figuring 195 AFRs with double springs would be adequate for a 7200 RPM limit, but my local engine guy is pushing heads made in NZ. Grumpy says they're OK and he along with the folks at Inglese have helped me select a cam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Is that cam you mentioned 236/242-510/540 a comp cams hyd.roller? If so I had that same cam installed on my build and it was a dog, I think they, the engine builder screwed up royally! I am now running the 276 I believe it is a 224/230-502/510 comp hyd. roller cam. By the way I had the Rpm air gap on the bigger cam as well as a victor jr. and both sucked with the bigger cam. On the smaller cam I am running a Weiand stealth dual plain intake and I did the install and made sure it was correct and have been really happy! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 zfan for a cam to work correctly in any application the rest of the combo must match. that vic.jr and 236/242 hydrolic roller match IF the rest of the combo also match, ant that would ideally require a static compression of about 11.7:1 and a rear gear close to 4.56:1-4.88:1 with tires about 26" tall. PLAY WITH THESE FOR AWHILE http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcmph.htm http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcrpm.htm http://users.erols.com/srweiss/calcrgr.htm http://www.prestage.com/carmath/dynochart.asp http://www.prestage.com/carmath/calc_ETMPH.asp http://www.wallaceracing.com/reargear.htm the idea is to keep the engine running almost full time inside its effective rpm range. a 236/242-510/540 a comp cams hyd.roller should be running in the 3000rpm-6500rpm range with most of its time in the inner 4000-6000rpm range if that milder cam and dual plane intake run better IM betteing your gearing keeps the engine in the 1000-5000rpm range a good part of the time, and your also forgetting that those small 170cc intake ports won,t flow at the higher rpm ranges, so the larger cam can,t flow any air in the rpm range its designed to run in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Mike W (zfan), If plan on dumping those Edelbrock heads, please email me!! I tried emailing you, but I'm not sure if it is working... Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zfan Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I emailed you back. I am not sure If I am as of yet. My wife may not like the idea of 1250 bucks for the afr 195's. They are a good deal as they are fully cnc'd and bowl blended or I think thats what he said? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike C Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 For that price they should be CNC chambers and bowls blended, NOT full CNC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 lol I know what you mean---that's why I'm always buying used stuff on cash only basis!!! Thanks for the reply Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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