Nicest Z 2.0

[awd92gsx]

See above edit. I've been away for awhile, but, I hope that the HybridZ community doesn't have the overall attitude that it's OK to belittle other people's contributions.

 

One of my favorite Z's is still Darius's supercharged LT1 powered 240Z. No extravegant body mods. Just clean, simple, and fast.

 

Anyway...enough of my thoughts...

[awd92gsx]

Ernie,

 

I couldn't find any completed pictures of the car, but, it doesn't look too bad from what I could see. I can definitely see why he added the flairs, though. He needs all the rubber on the ground he can get.

[pparaska]

Hmmm. It may be just me' date=' but I don't think the JDM fairlady's are that pretty, watanabe's, zg's, fender mirrors, whatever. I think the Z's real styling strength is in it's clean lines and cab rearward look. The JDM's do a good job of accentuating the latter, but I don't know about the former. This red Z, which I praise constantly, is my favorite so far. He just needs to ditch the triangle, shave the rest of the side hardware, go back to the original side mirror, and possible fit a cleaner air dam setup up front. Really, I'm just crazy about the rear end. CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN.

 

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/data/503/323552384.jpg

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/data/529/3235RIMG0067-med.JPG

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/data/529/3235RIMG0053-med.JPG

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/data/529/3235RIMG0070-med.JPG

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/data/503/3235RIMG0004a-med.JPG[/quote']

 

Thinkmonkey, just so you don't feel alone, I am a fellow "clean, stoc-paneled 240Z" admirer also. The JDM stuff is "faddish" to me. I never did think bolted on fender flares looked good, especially painted a different color than the car. The G-Nose used to be interesting to me, but now I find it makes the nose of the car look too long.

 

However, I do like nicely integrated flares, subtle spoilers and airdams, and subtle hoods - if they are molded into the body and painted at the same time the adjoining body panel(s) are.

 

The "over fenders" "spook" and rear spoiler were developed for racing, and a smooth integrated look was not an important requirement for racing. Just as I wouldn't want to drive around in a NASCAR look-alike, with all the stuff they have, I wouldn't want to drive around with bolt on, non-molded body mods either - except the rear spoiler which I think looks great. JMO.

 

Just so you don't think everyone gets a H.O. when they see bolted on, different color JDM stuff...to each his own.

[JMortensen]

It would be safe to say that the Japanese have a flare "faddish".

 

Jon

[awd92gsx]

I've always said "it should look like it came that way from the factory"

 

I agree with Pparaska 100%

[HS30-H]

Thinkmonkey' date=' just so you don't feel alone, I am a fellow "clean, stoc-paneled 240Z" admirer also. The JDM stuff is "faddish" to me. I never did think bolted on fender flares looked good, especially painted a different color than the car. The G-Nose used to be interesting to me, but now I find it makes the nose of the car look too long.

- big snip -

Just so you don't think everyone gets a H.O. when they see bolted on, different color JDM stuff...to each his own.[/quote']

 

To each his own indeed. Amen to that.

However, I drive a totally STOCK bodied car. When I say STOCK bodied, I mean it looks just as it did when it left the Factory in Japan.

It was also designed by the same team ( headed by Yoshihiko Matsuo ) that designed all the other models in the early S30-series Z model range. In fact, Matsuo had very direct input on its body shape and was really proud of it.

It may look "faddish" to some people, but I can't really see how something that left the Factory looking like this can be considered anything other than an official Nissan product.

Possibly it could be argued that copying or replicating this look without knowing where it originated, and why it was done in the first place, could be seen as following a "fad". That's the way I see it anyway.

Its a bit dismaying to see bright young things thirsting after a look that they don't really understand. Personally, I think its important to understand about ROOTS in all things to do with cars - especially old ones. The parts being described as faddish have roots and can be traced back through automotive history, in just the same way that a chopped and channelled 32 Coupe, a track-style T, a Hiboy roadster, any real 'Kustom', a Maserati Birdcage, Cobra Daytona Coupe etc etc can.

It would be nice if people paid some thought to where the looks originated before they take them and adapt them to their own tastes. I'm all for pushing forward and breaking the mould, but you have to know where things have come from before you can see where to take them forward and make your own interpretation.

 

Here's a pic of my TOTALLY STOCK bodied car. Its called a Fairlady 240ZG:

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=1131&password=&sort=7&thecat=3070

[pparaska]

I know exactly where they came from. I know about 50s and 60s stock and race cars. The "faddish" part was the new following that thinks that because it's JDM, it's "the best", no matter what the brand of car.

[HS30-H]

Well then we at least are thinking along the same lines.

 

However, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just 'cos the "JDM" ( God I hate that acronym ) freaks think some things are cool it does not make those things automatically crap.

 

For example, I see people on here and elsewhere sometimes writing things about Hondas, and I find it hard to relate to them. OK - I'm from the other side of the Atlantic, but we have our equivalent of the 'Ricers' over here too - so I can relate to WHO is being talked about. What is dangerous is to tar the product and manufacturer with the same brush as you do these kids. They are not the same thing. Honda make a good product and they take very seriously what they do. They also have ( what I consider to be ) a proven record in competition. I think any car manufacturer that indulges in competition is to be applauded and taken seriously. Its a shame that a whole section of the performance-car loving crowd now associate Honda with these kids.

 

There is always an element of the wrong-headed and poor-taste crowd in every scene. For my part, I don't want the fact that some dimwits have caught on to a 'look' and made it a 'fad' to diminish what I know and love. Hopefully they will move onto something else soon.

 

I'll come across as something of an elitist I'm sure. However, I just want people to understand more of the Japanese side of the story. Like I said, roots are important.

[awd92gsx]

I agree with both of you guys.

 

As long as it looks like it came that way, I think it's good. Most of the ones that I think that we all agree that don't look good are the obvious hack jobs. Putting flares on a car just to say they have flares doesn't do a classic car justice.

 

...now...in the case of Darius's car and a few others, I can understand the need for flares...having such wide tires without flaring the rear is illegal I think...plus it doesn't look that good...kinda redneckish.

[pparaska]

Yes, tarring an entire group at once (applying a generalization) is always a bad thing to do. Generalizations are never 100% correct.

 

But I have a mode of operation in my life that is counter-culture to some extent. I've always hated fads. I hold people that follow the latest cool thing at arms distance in my relations with them. To me it is unintelligent and non-thinking to just follow fads, especially when they are just to be different or to be accepted by a certain "group". I'm speaking in general here, not specifically about JDM stuff on Zs or other cars. So I have a habit of trying to distance myself from fads so as to not appear like one of the sheople, but as someone who actually thinks for themselves. I may even go as far as to go counter to a fad in my decisions (e.g., flat black, small exhaust outlets, not having short hair, not driving the latest "in" vehicle). There's a little peak into my psyche.

 

Oogling JDM hardware has become a fad in the import scene and the Z community is not immune. Sure, some of it is functional and looks like it should be there. IMO, the Z432 rear spoiler that I have on my Z is one of those pieces - I think it accentuates the rear of the Z's Kamm tail look and also is functional for reducing LIFT at higher speeds that I sometimes hit. (and yes, I realize the Kamm tail is visually appealing to me, and not necessarily aerodynamically efficient.) It also (according to a PhD aerodynamicist we know) may help keep the flow over the back of the car attached better to POSSIBLY help with the exhaust backdraft problem the Z has.

 

Sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings (it shouldn't - it's just my opinion) but bolted on flares look TACKED ON to me, and I think they ruin the smooth flowing lines of the Z. They were developed to allow wider tires and wheels to be bolted onto the racing Zs back in the day. If you talk to the designer, I'm sure he'll say that bolting them on was a practical consideration (as it should be) and while the shape might be aesthetically pleasing to some, the visible bolting is not purely pleasing. Until you get into the whole "lets make it look retro like the old fast race and street Zs in Japan". Nothing wrong with that, but it has less to do with pure aesthetics than it does with "having that look".

 

The G-Nose was also designed to take care of an aerodynamic problem. But I've come to see it as an aesthetic aberation as well. It makes the nose of the Z too long and pointy to be pleasing to my eye. in many cases. It does seem to look better on darker cars, to me anyway.

 

Fender mirrors have always looked strange to me. At a recent Z car show, I got two responses as to why they were put there on Japanese cars. One reason given is that it takes less head and eye movement to take your gander from the road ahead to the mirror when they are forward like that. But the reason that came from a Fairlady expert (Kirk Towner) was more telling - they were put there because in Japan (at that time) taxes on cars were determined in some part by the overall width of the car. The door mounted Z mirror made the Z move just slightly into a higher tax bracket. Putting them forward on the fender (so that you didn't have to look through the A-pillar) allowed the Japanese Z's to be overall narrow enough to move into a lower tax range. Note it wasn't about functionality or even aesthetics - it was about the practical matter of taxes - just like the 2 liter engine size tax break point.

 

These are just my very subjective opinions on what is purely aesthetically pleasing (to me), not taking into account the retro, historical, or period look aspects of how they make the car look. I have no problem with others wanting to put them on, but I think many times people do things to obtain a particular "look" (e.g., historic racing Z car, etc.) and shut their mind somewhat as to what is really purely aesthetically pleasing. This gets to "classic lines", etc.

[HS30-H]

Pete,

You put your points very well. If you want to go for what is aesthetically pleasing to you, then that's a great set of rules to stick to.

For myself, I too find that what is aesthetically pleasing to me is not necessarily what is pleasing to others. Yes its subjective, and with subjectivity being subjective - well, we are going nowhere!

I actually LIKE the 'tacked on' look of the Factory Overfenders. Reminds me of details from race cars that I grew up with. I'm sure that's what Matsuo and his team had in mind. By the way, the proper Factory attachment for the Overfenders was with steel ( not alloy ) Pop rivets - not bolts. Even more 'rough'.............

Your Fairlady expert got it right about the taxation class element to the placement of the Fender Mirrors, but missed the other consideration - safety. Japanese laws of the time stipulated that rear-view mirrors should not be a risk to pedestrians or cyclists / motorcyclists. Anything that could 'hook' the clothing of that category of road user ( yes - many small streets in Japan have no delineation between pavement ( sidewalk ) and road ) was basically deemed illegal. Hence the little rubber wedges between the rear bumper ends and the body. The fact that the Fender Mirrors don't require much head movement in the user is simply a function of their position so far away from his head.

The ZG went up into a higher taxation bracket ( 33 number ) with its Overfenders and longer nose, as indeed did the Fairlady 240Z models when they were offered in the Japanese market from late 1971. You will notice that the position of the mirrors went unchanged, as safety was still a factor even when taxation class no longer was. Safety considerations sometimes contribute to form and function. I'm used to people telling me that the Fenders Mirrors on my car can't be as good or as easy to use as their door mirrors. Somehow they don't actually WANT to think that they might both work OK.

 

All the best,

Alan T.

[Guest zline]

i've always been about overfenders and period wheels. have been since i was about 9 years old. =) stock body Z cars look great, I love em. about the only thing i dont like is the spook style fronts and the 280YZ, that's just TO much for me.

 

 

anyway, back to really cool Z cars.

 

 

and one more for good measure.

 

[blueovalz]

I found this string fascinating in comparing it to a bad car wreck. I didn't want to read what was posted, but at the same time found it too intriguing to look away as one that feels he has had experienced some level of each end of the continuum discussed. This includes keeping the basic Z and "enhancing" it, to the all out physical transformation the blueovalZ has morphed into. Often I see examples of what Pete describes, and for me they are quite pleasing to the eyes, and provide excellent examples of what the traditional proportions and characteristics of a classic sports car are. Often I wonder if I wouldn't be happier with my old 280 I had that had the subtle, clean, classic look that a Z can easily exhibit. I also look at what I've done to my 240 and wonder (often) if I went well beyond tasteful. My only regret with the blueovalz is the vast departure of some of the more recognizable features of the Z and that I have to pause slightly when someone asks me if it is a Z. I prefer the original look with some cleaning up, and subtle competition exterior pieces. Now, if I could redo the past 15 years I've spent on my Z, it would instead look more like a physically fit 180 lb example of an Olympic gymnast, rather than the 320 lb steroid bloated power lifter that it now has become.

[awd92gsx]

BlueovalZ...your car looks mean...and at least you can tell it started life off as a Z.

 

This is just my personal opinion, but...If I were going to do extravagent body mods to a Z...I'd do them to a 280Z...as it seems like it's getting harder to find clean stock 240Z's...Even though I'm a 280Z owner, I kinda see the 240Z as more of a collector's item than the 280Z...just my opinion, though. With that being said, I think one of the signatures of the Z is the headlight setup. I think that's the only thing you lost in your Z that makes it lose the "Z" look.

 

I wouldn't mind putting some flairs on the back of my Z, once I have the V8 installed and everything else done...I'll keep the front a little more subtle, though. No matter which way I go, the flairs will be molded in to look like they're part of the body.

[pparaska]

Terry, the BlueovalZ is a beautiful car, IMO. You did nothing in the previous rendition (when it was the blue race car) or this street rendition that I consider faddish, bling, etc. You had a vision of what would help functionally (vents above the front tires, laid back radiator, flared body for big tires/wheels) and made it all hang together like the Cobra Daytona did! I love the look of your car - it is devised as a swoopy, integrated race car, that started as a Z.

 

Bill, I agree about high powered Zs needing flares. To get the back end to stick! That's form following function! I just prefer that it's done to look like an integrated mod, like Terry, Van, and others who molded and blended attractive flaring into the rear of the Z.

 

JMO

[JMortensen]

The "faddish" thing that bugs me is the 17, 18, and 20 inch wheels. Nothing is more displeasing to my eye than huge wheels with stock puny brakes in there. I suppose you could argue that you can change the brake pads without taking the wheels off but that's about the only benefit IMO. Although I really have bled the brakes on a Civic at the track by reaching through the wheels with the wrench and the tube on my bleeder bottle. We teased the guy for hours. It was pretty funny, and he took it pretty well. Later on he got a set of 13's and slicks, and was much faster. Faddishness took over though when he ordered 13" rotors that he didn't need (I don't think that car broke 110 mph ever) and had to go back to the 18's.

 

You get to a certain point with wheel diameter when it actually starts to raise the car (nothing uglier to me than a car with almost no suspension sitting 8 inches above the pavement), plus you get much more rotating mass at the end of the wheel.

 

I know I disagree with probably MOST of this list on this one, but the only reason I'll put bigger wheels on my car is to fit bigger brakes under them. That's it. I think the larger contact patch is counteracted by the no sidewall thing. And I see lots of cars with 17's, 18's and bigger driving with a space saver on. Not too much room for potholes in a 35 series tire. One more thing, a 205/superlowpro/17 starts to look like a really fancy WAGON WHEEL at some point. Really tall and skinny. Not the look (or drive) I'm after.

 

FWIW, I like the JDM stuff, and I am considering bolt on flares precisely because they bolt on. If I smack one on a cone, the idea of grabbing a spare and bolting it on is pretty inticing to me. There is a silver 240 I autoxed with in CA who had beautiful steel flares and a beautiful paint job, except for the large dent in the left rear flare from a wayward cone. That must have sucked.

 

OK, I'm done. Lemme have it.

 

Jon

[Guest BlackTTZ]

sorry for the poor picture quality in my earlier post. I have since sold both those Z's, and they were the only ones I had left to scan.

 

also Sleek Z, everyone has a diffrent opinion on the nicest Z. The 2 I restored were certainly the nicest Z's in my area, and the clean stock look was what I was going for. Personnaly I don't care for silver Z in your post, to me it looks nothing like a "Z". Later

[pparaska]

Jon, no way - I'm not going to "let you have it".

That's what you like, and that's cool!

 

I agree on the big wheel diameter thing. I've learned my lesson about 17s on a Z. I bought them when I thought the extra 10 or 20mm or section witdth that a 17"wheel allows on a stock fendered Z (rear) would be an advantage. The wheels on my car were custom speced by the previous owner (Jim Biondo) to be as wide as possible in the stock fender - 17x9 with coilovers. But a 15 or 16inch wheel with a bit less width and 235 or 245 tires would be better for my triple purpose car (street, road course play, drag race) uses.

[majik16106]

I tell you guys what, I know im not really an important member here, some of you may have seen my posts but its not like everyone is asking my opinion on anything... with that being said, I still feel more welcome here than any other forum for any car group I have ever been at. When im bored I pick a car, find a group for it, whether it be ITR's, Wrx's, rx7's, starions, silvia... etc. Look and read and Learn. And of all the groups, you guys are by far the nicest. I think it has a lot to do with how this group started, sort of like outcasts who formed their own family. People didnt like us "tearing" these classic cars apart, even though we made them drive better, go faster, arguably look better.. etc. We arent purists here, and it shows.. people respect everyone elses opinion. I was a supra owner, and there, your nothing without 18's and 700rwhp, which is ridiculous.. i stopped going to supra meets, nobody could even spell road racing much less do it, save a few special owners. I wanted 17's on my Z, big IMSA flares and 275/40 rear tires. But the tires i needed at 400+rwhp on pump gas on the road. the 17s and flares were just for style however, nothing like 6 inches of lip,but now i think id rather use the ZG flare, keep the 275 with a 45 or 50 sidewall, and put them on 16's so I can lower the car a bit more. But the Great thing about that is, no matter which way I would have gone, a black car or a bright orange one, people on this board would have understood, and been curteous to my own "personal style". HYbridz.com made me a Z owner for life. And I cant wait to post pictures when all the work is done because I know that I wont be made fun off...

[pparaska]

There are no stupid questions and there are no unimportant members here. Nuff said.

Glad you found your home and your model of car!