Guest Anonymous Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 i'm pretty bad with mechanics, thus want to through a somewhat dumb question at you guys. hopefully you know a bit more and could answer it. i have found this pic the other day and was wondering, instead of going into all this trouble of actually making a whole new chassis is it possible to take a chassis from a car, i was thinking about 180SX or S13, and simply drop the 240Z body on it? am i talking s**t here or is it possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denny411 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 The SX and thZ are both unitized bodies,which means they have no frame. Which means the body and frame are intregal pieces of formed and bent sheet metal that gives the body it`s strength without the added weight of a separate thicker guage steel frame/chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j260z Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 that frame looks like the pairakooks frame from the fastassdatsun site. what they did was chop off the whole frame and bottom of a datsun and basically put the shell back onto a frame. although it adds the ability to use the corvette suspension and any size of wheel and engine they like it also adds a considerably larger amount of money to the project. very cool project but also very pricey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 j260z, you are right, it is the pairakooks frame. but my question was whether it is possible to chop off a frame of another car, with the suspension, drive-train and the whole lot, and simply mate it with a z shell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinCA Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Anything is possible with enough time and money. ANYTHING. I would feel 100% safer in my Z if i had a chassis like that though!. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 well, i might as well through in another question. is there any kind of books about building cars? if anyone could give me a name and an author, id really appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 > I would feel 100% safer in my Z if i had a chassis like that though!. You might feel safer, but the reality is that you would be in greater danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinCA Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 do you always try to rain on people's parades? the frame there combined with the suspension, would make the car more stable, therefore safer. In an accident it may be less safe because the unibody design would take more of the impact force, but there is a much better base there for a roll cage, so the car could more safe. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 I'm just a thunderstorm waiting to dump on folks... > the frame there combined with the suspension, > would make the car more stable, therefore safer. A simple ladder frame made of seamed mild steel tubing will be very flexible. The chassis will be much less stable then the 240Z monocoque design. Think pickup truck. > but there is a much better base there for a roll cage, > so the car could more safe. I can hear the thunder now... Better get your umbrella... The 240Z monocoque chassis has 12 years of OEM engineering and deisgn and 33 years of racing development under its belt. A properly designed and installed roll cage makes the monocoque extremely stiff and strong and a monocoque structure is a much better design to start with if chassis stiffness and strength is important. If cheapness and ease of construction is your main criteria, then go with a ladder frame. I apologize for raining on your parade. EDIT: I deleted some rudeness on my part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 well, not talking about the weather stuff, what i can get is that in fact it is better to stick to the original monocoque design of datsun. is that so, johnc? so what would you do in the case where you wanna stiffen up the body? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 well, not talking about the weather stuff, what i can get is that in fact it is better to stick to the original monocoque design of datsun. is that so, johnc? so what would you do in the case where you wanna stiffen up the body? Not sure how much you have been lurking around before posting, but this site is the place to search when you are looking to fortify the Datsun structure. Seriously, that's all they talk about here. V8's are all about twisting torque, and most V8 conversions end up with some strengthening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinCA Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 GRR I lost connection when i tried to post, so time to rewrite: I wasnt trying to step on anyones toes... I apologize for being ignorant and commenting upon a much broader image in my head than what is displayed upon my screen. I envisioned that ladder frame, integrated into the existing unibody, combined with a roll cage. Not simply bolted to the bottom of the body. I believe that a frame such as that, which closely follows the contour of the stock unibody could serve to significantly stiffen the entire vehicle. This lapse is more common than i would like to admit. I see something and think about what i would do with it to make it better, or just more complex, and then i cant see it another way unless i have a good reason to. I think that i am glad that i didnt get to see your post prior to your edit. I need to get some more work done, later, Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 A structure welded to or completely integrated into the monocoque becomes part of the monocoque. In general, adding mass to almost any structure increases the structure's strength to some degree. So, adding tubing to the bottom of the 240Z monocoque will increase its resistance to longitudinal bending and that's the thinking behind subframe connectors (also used a lot on Mustangs and Camaros). Its not the most efficient way to increase the strength of the monocoque but it works. My rudeness wasn't that rude, I was just being a smart-ass again. Been working for about a month straight without a day off so I'm a bit irritable. I'm going racing this weekend so I'll be a more pleasant person next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted September 8, 2003 Share Posted September 8, 2003 I can only think of one full-frame production vehicle more modern than a Z (is that the goal?), and that is the Corvette. Maybe a pickup truck (pick your brand). Saw a Cobra kit car body once built on a shortened '70's Ford Courier frame. No, it wasn't a monster truck, it was lowered like a sports car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas240z Posted September 9, 2003 Share Posted September 9, 2003 well, i might as well through in another question. is there any kind of books about building cars? if anyone could give me a name and an author, id really appreciate it! Hello deadshki: Here I got a name of a book that might help you understand more about chassis, automotive and a whole bunch of stuff. It's a really good book, easy to follow. The book is: ---Chassis Engineering by Herb Adams.--- You could also search for books on how to build Hot Rods...they explain how to build your own car from scratch. I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I think that much of the confusion about the structural “benefit” of ladder-frames comes from old hot rodding lore, where it was perceived that ladder frames are a better base for roll cages, as compared to unibodies. Unibodies do need local reinforcement (steel pads welded to the sheet metal) to properly integrate with a roll cage. Whereas a traditional ladder frame can support roll cage tubing without such local reinforcement. And unibody sheet metal has lots of compound curves, which complicate the making of flush joints with tubing. But if the designer is mindful of these restrictions, there’s no question that a cage-unibody united structure will be stiffer than a ladder frame-cage, especially in torsion. Going with a separate ladder frame and “dropping” Z sheet metal over would become a reasonable alternative if you want to use a different car’s suspension, but don’t want to cut and weld the Z unibody for the new suspension pickup points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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