jeromio Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 So, lately I drive my Z on a daily basis. The car sticks very nicely when it's dry. But in the rain, this car is not fun to drive. It's somewhat scary. Okay, really scary. I can cruise at 60, even 65, but if there's any kind of standing water, either because the road has slight puddles, or the rain is coming down heavy, I cna feel the rear slipping side to side and it is very butt-clenching. So, when it gets moist, I tend to slow waaay down. Other cars I drive, Contour (SVT) and my old 68 Travelall (33" A/Ts) are just fine in the wet. No tangible difference wet or dry really (except if you actually do hit a huge puddle with those giant tires in the truck). I have decent tires: Dunlop SP5000 235/45/17. I have a pretty bad one wheel peel issue on the driver's side wheel so I had to replace that tire recently. Before that the car simply could not be driven in any kind of wet. So, is it Zs in general? Light weight? Is it just my car - somehow messed up suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 When I last drove my Z in the rain (Fall of 85) I was amazed at how well it stuck. I tires had on the car were 195/14 pirelli P77. For plain street tires those were great. The width of your tires could be a big cause of the problem. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I think it's a light car/wide tire problem. My car, with 225 Yoko AVSI's, is downright spooky to drive in the rain. I was at Roebling one day when it was raining, and it was awful. Every car in my group passed me. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 ... I can feel the rear slipping side to side and it is very butt-clenching... Yes, the dreaded pucker factor that I hate. My 260Z was a pain to drive in the wet and I didn't like that at all, frankly. The tires were "decent," but not good all-weather tires so I think it was due to the tires and not so much the car. I had a 510 with fat BF Goodrich ties and it would hydroplane like nobody's business---not fun. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I'd be looking at rear alignment and/or worn suspension bushings - When my '73 was a daily driver it was fine in the dry - but had the same problem in the wet. Changed out all the rear suspension bushings - problem gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 The biggest factor in wet weather handling is - your right foot. Assuming that's under control, the next biggest factor is tires. After that comes shocks (less compresison damping is better), anti-roll bars (softer is better), and springs (softer is better). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted September 23, 2003 Author Share Posted September 23, 2003 Tires don't seem all that wide. Friend's M3 has same sized Michelin something or others and they look much more squared off and therefore fatter (more tread width). Mine are a bit roundish - not as much actual tread on the road. Car has no rear sway bar, stock one up front. All bushings are poly. Carts are Tokico Performas. Springs are 150fr/175r. I think they're pretty hard (skateboard-like) and therefore may be contributing to my issues here, but John probably thnks they're marshmellos And yeah, with the V8, mr. throttle must be used with extreme care in wet. In dry too actually. What mostly freaks me is cruising at constant speed, say 55mph, and driving into a wetter spot in the highway. You know how on a cement freeway some parts just don't drain as well as others. If I hit an actual puddle, the front may lurch, but it mostly tracks fine. It's the rear that feels squirrely. I also wonder if it is just me. I did have a very bad experience with my previous wheels and worn tires ('bout 2 years ago) where, going 40mph on the highway around a slight curve, the back-end came around and I did a 180. Scared the boseefus out of me. Anyway, that could've just made me extra sensitive. Like how sometimes, even when my cell phone is not in my breast pocket, I'll feel a phantom vibration and think my phone is ringing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 well when my Z was stock it was SOOOOOOOOO BAD in the rain... and im coming from a Z32 which just SUCK in the rain. also i have the feeling ill be not driving in the rain with my Z when its driveable. 225 front, 250 rear spring rates, on a really!!!! low car, with wide 275-40-ZR17 tires out back. does it rain in texas alot anyways? mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruez Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 I knew a girl that was dating this guy that owned a Viper........It was raining..... he went around a curve and.....well, slid off the road, flipped and hit a tree.... killed them both, one decapitated..... I think anything with a little power and fat tires in the rain can spell disaster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 gramercyjam might be on to something. Check front and rear toe. If the shop can do it, also check rear caster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted September 23, 2003 Share Posted September 23, 2003 Well heres my experience. When I ran bfg comp ta's all around on my 280... 245/45/16 rear and 225/50/16 front, and a welded 3.9 ratio rearend, and very cut springs and upgraded tokico's, I ran at a fairly tight 12 turn 1.3k road course in the pouring rain. It rained hard enough, my wipers were on the middle setting. Our club had rented the track, and because it was paid for, we decided to run anyways, even though we were all pretty nervous. I was amazed how fast we could run in the rain. Milder 240's simply could not keep up with my 280 though. We had to be smoother with the gas pedal, but were were going full tilt, and on the brakes hard. It was extremely fun, and a learning experience that I was very grateful for. Last year when i was running 265/45/16 victoracer 700's with bfg kdw's 225/50/16 out front, it was down right scary in the wet on the highway. Cars would be slowing to 80k while I was slowing to 40-50Kph and still felt the rear sliding from time to time.. (I could not see my tracks in the water in my rear view mirror.) This year with my 315/35/17's out back, I"m back to pushing the car much harder in the rain. I'm incredibly impressed with the wet handling characteristics of the Yokohama avs sports. I'm not nervous about the handling at in the rain.. though I'd be very wary of standing water, but then so should everyone else. I think tires are the biggest key, that and a smooth right foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.pk Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 ill never drive my NEXT Z in the rain no matter what.. who would after my last experience.... a combination of heavy rain after a dry spell and bald tires.....never again will i drive any car on blad tires... i learned this the hard way bviously... http://www.geocities.com/onebadass280z/Zmiracle.html [/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotfitz Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 Damn! Can you say "crumple zone". Glad to hear you made it out alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 I hope you didn't have a passenger with you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin.pk Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 no passenger thank god.... i came out wihtout a scratch... something im still wondering how i manged to pull off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modern Motorsports Ltd Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 So, is it Zs in general? Light weight? Is it just my car - somehow messed up suspension? Your tires Jeromio....perhaps some rear alignment issue exaggerated by your tires. A good wet/dry tire you can take to 90% or more of a dry time in street use (just ballpark, I still have TONS of fun in the rains we get)......once I came to BC here I've bucked up for good wet/dry tires and it's a world of difference. My one incident I had was on a temporary poor set during a hub pattern changeover, I will NEVER screw around with cheaper or used tires. Good wet/dry, firehawk SZ50EPs, S03 PP's, MXX3 sports etc. RE730's are 'ok' and cheaper as are many others. I'm sure I've missed a few. I'm a big fan of SZ50EP's. An optimal alignment will help with both dry and wet traction, more caster/nominal camber for easier straight line stability on uneven roads is agreat benefit as steering input's can be smoother as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 The tires on my Z seem to be great in both wet and dry situations. They are about the same measure as yours and are kind of like the aqua-channel design (with a large grove down the center of the tire). You might check out a set of these. Also, you mentioned that you have a problem with one-wheel spin. Granted this is more common in open differentials, if you have this happening a lot then that is something that should be checked out. (Unfortunately I dont know what to check, possibly shocks ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeromio Posted September 24, 2003 Author Share Posted September 24, 2003 I guess the SP5000s might not be great wet weather tires. They are claimed to be good - that's why I bought them. I was primarily looking for wet weather handling. Immediately after my 180, I parked the car and ordered my wheels and tires. As to rear alignment, I know I have some toe out, perhaps 1/2 inch difference between leading and trailing (dunno what that translates to in degrees). The car is fairly low. I have not had a rear alignment performed on the car, because to my knowledge there is nothing that can be adjusted. I suppose I could get offset bushings, but I'm leary of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted September 24, 2003 Share Posted September 24, 2003 As to rear alignment, I know I have some toe out, perhaps 1/2 inch difference between leading and trailing (dunno what that translates to in degrees). Thats huge. There should be no toe out at all. This is definitely at least one of your problems. You should not need camber bushings to correct it unless something is very bent back there. I would look very carefully at the lower A arms/transverse links and associated hardware. --John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Testing the car on a wet skid pan facility is a good, safe way of finding out how the car performs in the wet. Plus it is fun and you can refine your driving technique at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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