TomoHawk Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 I see a LOT of the cold air intakes with the filter BEHIND the radiator ( the hot-air side.) what makes people think this is COLD air?? I think I would rather go back to the way my Escort gets it's COLD air- from inside the front fender. This might get some eyebrowse to rise.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 Lol! Yeah, behind the radiator you just have to call it a HAI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zen Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 This was one thing I saw with the 350z at the dealer, they were touting a 5hp increase by using a K&N Cold Air Intake, but the filter cone was sitting in the engine bay behind the radiator! I didn't see how it was getting any cool air where it was located. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest szlash280z Posted October 3, 2003 Share Posted October 3, 2003 they make the "filter charger" kits for cars that have no room to mount it in front of the radiator, it's basically a plastic box for the filter to sit in that "isolates" the filter from the hot air. I doubt that works much either. my 1SG has a supercharged intercooled Ram pickup, he made a cold air box for it, but he put insulation around inside the box to insulate it better, then he has it facing a direct hole in the front clip so it gets "RAM AIR" too. He said it didn't make any difference either. so many people believe the K&N hype. I think it's a crock, a Z car comes stock with a cold air intake because the filter is in front of the radiator. If people just called it a high flow filter instead it would have more credibility. I honestly don't think the filters do anything special for a car other than get dirtier faster. I fell for the hype too, that's why I believe it's a crock. but I got my filter for free. gotta love the low cost "mods" right? I saw a punk kid at the track, he asked to borrow a screwdriver because his stock filter box "must've popped" off while he was running. BS, I think he was just another victim of the Filter hype and just couldn't afford to buy his K&N yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted October 3, 2003 Author Share Posted October 3, 2003 For as simple as the things are, and if it was making more horsepower, wouldn't you thing that the Auto Manufacturers would be putting them on all the cars? No! because they're already on there, like I stated in the original post. It's just made of plastic with a plastic hose and the cold air comes from the fenderwell. More evidence that all that junk on a ricer is just..... junk. If they pointed the kicker/subwoofer out the back, they'd be getting an extra 5 mph! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 For every one of us that makes fun of "them" there will be somebody out there that makes fun of "us." For as simple as the things are, and if it was making more horsepower, wouldn't you thing that the Auto Manufacturers would be putting them on all the cars? If this were true, wouldn't all manufacturers also put on 2.5" exhausts with open canister exhausts? With everything that else being equal, you have to remember that the stock air box on most cars were designed with cost, stability, and most importantly, noise levels in mind. The open-ness of the intakes you are mentioning may very well offset the heat that the radiator is transferring to the air Have any of you ever datalogged a car that was running a cold air intake before and after the intake install? I have. Even on my old DSM doing something as simple as pulling a plastic cover from behind the headlight dropped my intake tempatures around 10 degrees. Just some of my thoughts...I'm not saying that all mods ricers do make power, but, not all of them don't either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 First- You can get a large-diameter exhaust on a vehicle, but you pay for it. The smaller-diameter ones are cheaper and quieter. Also help in decreasing the emissions. But you can still have the big exhaust pipes & muffler, etc., to make more horsepower, but at the expense of money, emmisions and loudness. Fiortunately, for us Z-guys, the before the radiator shouldn't be as hot as the air that has gone through, and the large opening on the nose of a Z-car should let an ample amount of air through , keeping the air in front of the radiator relatively cool and pressurized even. I bought one of those things, not because it's supposed to add power, but because it uses more common filters, because I'm having trouble finding the rectangular ones ar the local stores. I like the idea of the K&N filter. The large-diameter pipe should let more air through the AFM, too. The stock one seems a little small. I don't think that all the ricer mods make power. I think that more mods are used just for looks, like LED mirrors. DVDs or subwoofers add nothing to performance, or safety, or fuel ecomony, etc. Why not just a carbon cold air pipe? Or fiberglass/plastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilRufusKay Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 If you want a real cold air intake come run with me over here in sunny Buffalo. It 's a balmy 40 degrees out right now!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmead Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I'll agree that on a z car a "cold air intake" doesn't do much...it already has one. But other cars are a different story. The airboxes are not designed with performance in mind (well, most of the time they aren't), and sometimes it amazing to think the engine could make any power at all sucking air through that maze of plastic. Most CAIs don't work by really reducing the temperatures much, but simply by opening everything up (and a slightly higher flow through the filter doesn't hurt either). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 Especially on Hondas. If you've ever looked at a stock honda intake, you definitely see how small the stock intake tubing is. It's not even 2 inches ID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest szlash280z Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 calling them a cold air intake is a false name. Every ricer I have seen with one has the filter still in the engine bay sucking hotter air than the stock air box did. A K&N filter is a higher flow airfilter, I think thats even what K&N says about them, they don't mention cold air unless it's in their filter charger pack. I truly don't think they actually work well enough to offset the cost on small engine cars. The demand for super high airflow just isn't there on a honda unless it's boosted or something. But they look cool, and that's really all most people get them for, and because "they said it will add power!" I got some huge K&N's from our Apaches and put them on all of our cars. The most noticeable effect was on my other corolla. It just made it sound like a fart cannon muffler was installed in the engine bay. Most cars have a lot of silencers in the intake tract so you don't hear all that noise when you rev the engine. It's a requirement for you to have one if you are a ricer. I have heard ricers making fun of other ricers because they haven't gotten a K&N yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomoHawk Posted October 4, 2003 Author Share Posted October 4, 2003 Does "Hi-Rev Tuners" have a website? Somebody (from here) should go over there and see ifd they know what the real truth is for why ricers have CAIs. I'm tired of seeing them showcase some "Award winner" when it's got something that doesn't add to power, and only takes up space. I wonder if those guys will argue the point. Maybe I will call them "Award Wieners" instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280z-racer Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 just some extra info sort of in defense of the ricer the intakes that keep the filter under the hood and behind the radiator are short ram intakes, the cold air intakes drop the filter inside the front fascia of the car which pulls in the cooler more pressurized air coming from the bottom of the car. that is why they are sold with a bypass valve so they dont suck up water when they go through a puddle and hydrolock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 4, 2003 Share Posted October 4, 2003 I work for a Mitsubishi dealership that installs/sells Inject intakes/CAI's. Injen actually provides dyno figures for before and after intake installs... There's a difference between and intake (which is what you are referring to) and a Cold Air Intake, which, on most cars puts the air filter in the lower bumper. It's funny to me to hear import owners clown other import owners for doing things to their cars that doesn't make them faster... If everybody kept that attitude then we'd all be driving around rusted out/primered old school muscle cars with $24k engines rolling on some old steel wheels. I chose to go with the MSA F40 wing when I had my Z painted and a body kit installed...I guess that makes me a ricer, too... Oh yeah...it has a CAI on it, as well...plus a billet fuel rail and 16" wheels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240hybrid Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 I honestly don't think the filters do anything special for a car other than get dirtier faster. If your refering to a K&N filter I would say they get dirty quicker because they are filter more dirt than a standard paper element that lets more particulate matter through. I could be wrong but the red oil in combination with a cotton type material in the K&N filters will grab more dirt I believe. Im not saying you gain HP from a 90* elbow and a K&N cone filter, but it can't be any worse than stock thats for sure. As for CAIs on Zcars, its all personal preference as to using the stock, box housing or a newer design which leaves the filter freefloating in air. I do agree that the stock box housing is esentially a CAI being that its infront of the radiator though. As for getting K&N filters for the stock box (the rectangular ones) I had ho problems ordering one at a local Advanced auto parts. Too bad I only used it for about 3 month....kind of a waste of $. Well I think it all comes down to personal preferences, but for god sake, don't make one out of PVC tubing elbows , cause your too cheap to buy a 3" 90* mandrel bend. Heck the 1 mandrel bend is probably cheaper than the PVC ghetto rig that some ricers make after buying 3 or 4 90*/45* bends and the glue and all. Just my $.02 ...Chase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 If you've ever looked at a stock honda intake, you definitely see how small the stock intake tubing is. It's not even 2 inches ID. A 1.75" ID tube (~44mm) will flow enough CFM to work on a 500 horsepower engine. Look at the intake restrictors required on ALMS and FIA Le Mans LMP675 engines. Size isn't that important when it comes to intake flow. Velocity is an order of magnitude more important then tube cross section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 OK but how about the way the intake tubing is bent all over the place like a bad exhaust system? I know what the engineers are doing, they are using the bends and sometimes pieces of tubing that come off the intake and go nowhere to cancel sound resonance, but surely the convoluted SHAPE has to hurt performance. Just a little devil's advocate here... BTW, I love the drop in K&N's and have put them in every car I've owned, except my Z which has an ITG. The only reason I buy them though is to save $$$. Use and clean vs. use and trash... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 11, 2003 Share Posted October 11, 2003 Size isn't that important when it comes to intake flow. Velocity is an order of magnitude more important then tube cross section Not that I don't believe you, but, if that's the case, why do most V8 users have 4 barrell carbs instead of 2 barrell carbs? Wouldn't the 2 barrels actually create more velocity over the 4 barrells? That would also apply to intake valve sizing...most people opt for big valve heads, although we know that smaller valves create more velocity (and as such, more torque) I used to build intakes for DSM's and actually got to see a customer's dyno results before and after the intake install. Going from a stock intake to a 3" intake he picked up 12hp WHP!! Of course, this was a mildly built turbo engine, so, as always...results may vary. Also, correct if I'm wrong...but, I thought that the FIA used turbochargers...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest szlash280z Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 the cone filters get dirtier faster because more of the filter is exposed to the elements directly. the stock filter only pulled air from one spot that wasn't directly facing the road, that design limited the amount of dirt that could even touch the filter and the filter got less dirty because of it. take both filter setups, throw a handful of dirt at each. the k&n will get very dirty because you hit the filter directly, but the stock filter wont get very dirty because you hit the fully enclosing metal compartment instead of the filter. It has nothing to do with the k&n being more efficient and the paper filter letting stuff through it. I have a PVC intake system on my turbo engine and on my old NA, are you trying to say something bad about me? Yes a metal pipe would look better, but my filter has a 5" opening on it and they don't exactly make pipes that size. I am going to get a regulation 3" filter when I get an intercooler because I will likely have to mount the filter directly to the AFM inside the engine bay. Am I a stupid ricer because of my PVC pipes? I used black plastic pipes, not that white PVC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 240hybrid Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Either way I believe that a K&N will filter smaller and more matter than a regular paper filter....I guess I got sucked into the hype . As for your 5" filter I'm sure theres commercial truck exhaust pipe you can use for it....just kidding . I'll admit that black pipe you have looks better than white, but I just don't like the pieced together look of white PVC under a car hood. Thats just me, and I referred to ricers doing it, because thats the only people I have ever seen use it till today. I hope that I didn't get you fired up, but everyones entitled to a opinion. Chase Morrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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