David K Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Joe Smith started the day early having set his alarm clock (MADE IN JAPAN) for 6 a.m. While his coffeepot (MADE IN CHINA) was perking, he shaved with his electric razor (MADE IN HONG KONG). He put on a dress shirt (MADE IN SRI LANKA), designer jeans (MADE IN SINGAPORE) and tennis shoes (MADE IN KOREA). After cooking his breakfast in his new electric skillet (MADE IN INDIA) he sat down with his calculator (MADE IN MEXICO) to see how much he could spend today. After setting his watch (MADE IN TAIWAN) to the radio (MADE IN INDIA) he got in his car (MADE IN GERMANY) and continued his search for a good paying AMERICAN JOB. At the end of yet another discouraging and fruitless day, Joe decided to relax for a while. He put on his sandals (MADE IN BRAZIL), poured himself a glass of wine (MADE IN FRANCE) and turned on his TV (MADE IN INDONESIA), and then wondered why he can't find a good paying job in AMERICA..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 you know what I love seeing? A 4th gen camaro owned by a teamster/union member that has a bumpersticker on it saying "SUPPORT US JOBS - BUY AMERICAN CARS" if you know where the f-body was assembled, you'll get the joke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 LOL. And this is being read on an import car forum btw...the answer to that joke is... Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I wonder if they have a problem with my Toyota truck built in Ohio. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aaron Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 The lines of American/Imported cars are teribly blurred. We now have germans owning an american car company that makes most of its cars outside this country, and makes german cars in Alabama. Japanese and Korean cars/trucks/suvs/vans built in Tennesse, Ohio, Alabama, and Mississippi, while the number one American truck (F150) is built in Mexico. I personally would only consider Nissan's, Toyota's, and Honda's as my daily driver mainly because they are the most reliable, well built cars in my experience. I often like the styling of other manufacturers much better, but for my uses, I have to choose one of those manufacturers. The added benefit to those makes is that all of them have large manufacturing facilities within a 4 hour drive of my house, so I feel that I am doing more for my country, and my part of the country by purchasing those cars instead of the "American" cars that my inlaws will only drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aaron Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I wonder if they have a problem with my Toyota truck built in Ohio. Jon They probably do because the japanese plants are usually not unionized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Our Mitsubishi plant in Normal, Illinois is unionized....maybe the Toyota one is, too.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 ok then, I tell you what, why dont we stop trade with all forign countries, and just have US workers manufacture everything we use. oh, dont forget about the labor unions that will be getting involved. sounds good doesnt it. well, im sure that will sounds great when your paying out the ass for everything because joe schmoe doesnt build calculators for less than 12$ an hour. or his wife doesnt assemble that shirt for less than 10$ watch out inflation, and kiss the buying power of your dollar goodbye. the only reason why the us has a strong economy, and you can play with Zcars, is the fact that underdeveloped countries (aka thirdworld) supply a steady stream of cheap labor. your goverment makes it that way so it doesnt have to listen to you complain about your 1k dollar tires, or your 100$ watch, that before that nationalist labor movement you could buy for 100$ a set at pepboys, or 15$ at wallmart. besides if joe smith wants a high paying american job, than he shouldnt be looking at manufacturing anyway. get an education (not a given), learn chinese and then put a resume out. let me aks you this. how many people in ex-subsistance economies have resumes? hello? anywho...give the american labor movement a rest. you would be kicking yourself in the ass if it ever happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PETEW Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Sparky, While that all sounds good on paper, what do you think is going to happen to this country as more and more products are imported in and more people can't find a good paying job. I don't care if the calculator only costs $5 instead of $12, if you don't have a job then you don't have money to spend on that calculator. Everyone getting an education sounds like a nice plan, but not many people have $60K dollars laying around. And that would be for a state school in PA. If everyone would get an education than there would be an influx of people looking for office jobs and where would all these jobs come from. Face it, this country is still very much a manufacturing country and if that goes we are going to be in big trouble. Do I have the answers, NO. But I do know that if we just keep letting everyting be manufactured outside the country and export nothing then we are doomed. Thee has to be some sort of balance and there isn't one. I have a feeling tough times are going to be reeling thier head in the not too distant future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Whaddya mean? We have a great balance in this country if you think about it. We're one of if not the most properous country in the entire world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 I worked for EarthLink for three years until they decided to outsource all of their call-center work to India. That story rings so true.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparky Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Forgive me on my last post, it wasn’t meant to be a "that’s the way it is" or "that’s how it should be" statement. Pete, Everyone getting an education sounds like a nice plan, but not many people have $60K dollars lying around. And that would be for a state school in PA. If everyone would get an education than there would be an influx of people looking for office jobs and where would all these jobs come from. Its not about people in general, what I should have specified was that anyone looking for said "high paying job" isn’t going to get it without some kind of education. Be it a tech school, or state school. And its not how much money you have lying around. My schooling here costs me 2,500 a semester, and this is at decent well-known school. I’m a resident so of course its cheaper, but if you add in books, and lets say that jumps to 3k, then its 24k for 4 years ( a rough estimate i know) but that’s still not bad, and that’s still something that a lot of people could pay for if they just make it happen. (Plus with my low paying job I get a little tuition reimbursement as well) And in no way in my previous post did I suggest that everyone is going to go to school. There are plenty of people that will work for wal-mart and taco bell for the rest of their lives making 8$ and hour keeping the system afloat. While that all sounds good on paper, what do you think is going to happen to this country as more and more products are imported in and more people can't find a good paying job. I don't care if the calculator only costs $5 instead of $12, if you don't have a job then you don't have money to spend on that calculator. Oh I agree, don’t get me wrong. The govt keeps a lot of the companies in the states for that very reason, but still, since the early 60s the US had been losing a substantial amount of its manufacturing jobs to other counties ( a more recent event would be NAFTA). and since that point in time people have always been screaming "keep jobs in America" fearing that the economy would collapse, but it never happened, other jobs spring up. but I agree that this trend cannot continue forever. (or that much longer) There will always be some form of low/middle paying jobs as long as you have an upper/middle class that can spend their disposable income on things. Even in this country there is poverty, and its that poverty that keeps the local economy stable. It’s the same model that works for the entire world. The rich (US) will take advantage of the poor (Mexico) in order to keep your peoples rich all the while telling Mexico to "work hard and someday you’ll be just like us, you can thank NAFTA for that, sign right here please" Face it, this country is still very much a manufacturing country and if that goes we are going to be in big trouble. Do I have the answers, NO. But I do know that if we just keep letting everything be manufactured outside the country and export nothing then we are doomed. Thee has to be some sort of balance and there isn't one. I have a feeling tough times are going to be reeling their head in the not too distant future. At one point in time people where saying that "this country is an agricultural economy, and if we keep getting undersold by Mexico (or who ever) than this country will die." No more cheap cotton! Now we are in the end of the manufacturing era. So what’s next? I have no idea, I like you don’t have all the answers, as a matter of fact I don’t have any really. Actually, I take that back. I do know one thing; the US can kiss its "number one" economy goodbye. there’s a old dog on the block and its got some new tricks. That dog is China, and its going to give the world a rude awakening. So Anywho...that my opinion, if it must be flamed than so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Sparky has made a great case for why the trade pendelum shouldn't swing too far on this one as there are benefits to buying certain products elsewhere. What I think the original post was trying to say was that we've moved too far in the other direction, not that trade is bad all together. With our current trade deficit, $1.5 billion a day is sucked out of this country in foreign trade. America became very powerful after WW2 because we were the industrial powerhouse of the world. By the early 50's, at 6% of the world's population we produced 50% of the world's goods. Had we protected our patents, America could be the only country producing a vast array of high-tech goodies, and the world would be paying us hand-over fist for things like TV's, VCR's, computers, camcorders, etc. Instead, we now prefer to have others build it really cheap. Sparky did a fine job explaining some of the dangers of going too far one way, let's look at what aggressively going the other way has created: What we get aside from lower prices are a lot of people now standing around without jobs. Some have been absorbed into the new "service economy," some have not. Going to college may not help much either. A recent trend has white-collar jobs going too. Why pay an accountant in the states when you can hire a number-cruncher in the Philippines? Or a computer programmer in China or I.T. in India? The list goes on, at $5,000 a year instead of the $50,000 you paid the guy back in the states. Efficiency looks great on paper and the stock price jumps, shareholders party down. But now you have more Americans standing around, not paying taxes(lately 50,000-100,000 more unemployed each month). The gov needs all that employee income tax to run things, so to plug the holes they can (and do) just borrow it back from those countries who we pay for all our goodies, namely China and Japan. How much did we borrow this year? The figures released earlier in the week said $730-740 billion. How much is that? Well, let's see...if you went into business the day Jesus was born, and lost $1 million a day, every day, it would've taken you until 3 years ago to finally lose $730 billion dollars. Thazalotta clams!!! P.S. To give credit where credit is due, we are still the undisputed champs in one manufacturing sector - war. We are the largest by a long shot, supplying 50% of the total weapons sold worldwide each year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest greimann Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Guess what, we ALL live on this big blue marble called planet Earth and we all depend on each other for our quality of life. Isolationism died in the early 20th century when transportation and communication between continents became routine. If we are truly one people and benefit from a global economy, then why not buy shirts from Sri Lanka if that is where they can be made most economically and the business can benefit the local inhabitants. It is a win-win. Do you want to buy an 100% American made t-shirt for $50. I don't. Think global, end predjudice, and the world will be better for everyone. P.S. If the aramda from Proxima Centauri enters orbit in the near future, bent on colonization, then we can nuke 'em till they glow, but otherwise, can't we all just get along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAD D Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 It is crazy, but people want cheap products. I think 90% of shoes are made in China.... Speaking of cheap products, have you guys seen the new OBX turbo headers for Hondas for 300$!!!! http://www.ssautochrome.com/level.itml/icOid/1324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Do you want to buy an 100% American made t-shirt for $50. I would gladly pay that much for a t-shirt if it meant that we had jobs here in the US. If everything wasnt made off-shore by companies that sell here then we would have jobs that would be paying us enough to afford $50 t-shirts. It is not a win-win situation.. when you are sitting there working in a job and your employer points out that someone over in india can do the same job for literally pennies on the dollar and then you watch your job go away for that very reason you will see that it is not win-win. If all of our business were to be done off-shore where it is cheaper then none of us would have jobs and none of us would have any money. Our economy (local and global) is completely flawed by humanity. Everyone wants to make more money and spend less. The only way to do that is by robbing someone else, period. And before you ask, NO, I dont think trade is bad, and NO, I dont think there is anything wrong with buying imported products. There isnt any way to establish a balance because humans will screw it up anyway. The only solution is brewing beneath Yellowstone as we speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZR8ED Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Back to Auxilary with the F body.. Well I drive an United auto worker built Nissan (built in Tennesse) and I drive it to work everyday to my customers manufacturing facility...GM Canada... Where they build Buick Century and Pontiac Grand Prix. hehehe I do know what you mean about the pendulum swinging too far either way... not good. BTW excellent post on the "blue marble"...now that is looking at the big picture. I studied "societal marketing" in my senior years at college. We are still a long way off from truely achieving that mindset....Its worth it though... This world is pretty small...I was talking with a buddy in Holland this morning..he was standing in the post office to send me something, when a woman behind him started chating and it came about that she knew exactly were he was sending that package more than 10000 miles away.. (a suburb of Toronto)... she was from that area.... This just happened this morning... Small world.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaparral2f Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 You have a job making widjits that sell for $400 and you are making $10 per hour. The company owner finds that he can set up shop in the third world where the person doing your $10 job only makes 15 cents. Do you actually think that the cost of the widjit is going to come down? When is the last time you bought a pair of Nikes made in asia by low paid workers? Cheap weren't they?? Lets face it, companies are going to pocket the savings, and and avoid corperate taxes, leaving them for us to pay... if we could only find a good American job Lots of people deride the labor movement, but if it weren't for unions we would all be working 14 hour days and none of us would be able to play with our cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Z Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 I couldn't agree with you more Dave. Think global, end prejudice, and to go farther - make fair labor standards for all countries. One reason that we can't compete is because some countries could care less about employee safety or rights, and unfortunately those are "hotspots" where business can be most profitable. Regulate them more and we could better compete in an atmosphere where workers don't have to work under the lash to allow cheap stuff for us. The same "company town" tactics we look down upon in our own history are allowed to flourish elsewhere. We fought hard to end it here, and now by allowing other countries to work this angle leaves us not on a level playing field. Actually it's not other countries, these are American companies just "over there" often times, competing against our jobs. Take Nike for example. They pay dirt wages due to economic circumstance in Vietnam. They build a shoe for $3. We don't get it for $10,11,12, even $20 would be a great profit. They could pay their workers a living wage for next to no loss in profit, but why do so if there aren't any rules? No, they take the money and spend so much on advertising as to ram the swish down our throats. That money is good for the economy, but the price tag is still $150. So much for passing the savings on to the consumer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKDGabe Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 I believe Heavy Z hit the nail on the head. Free trade would work great if it was a level playing field but it's not! Unfortunately the U.S. government cannot enforce freedom. Not here or anywhere else. The people are the keepers of freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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