davidh Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 just wondering can a triple carb car beat a turboed l28 350 hp motor? well on freeways that is. like if you were running like maybe 250 hp on carbs? if the top end feels like a good rush then should it at least hang with it too? what kind of gas milage would you see with the triple carb set up? im just asking these questions cause i don't know what to do with my car yet, and want to get opinions. i heard if you tune the triples right you can get good gas mileage like a efi and still kick ass on civics ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I've never heard of one person getting good gas mileage on tripples. Average is something like 12-13mpgs. Second, about the only way you'll get 250hp at the wheels on a N/A motor with or without triples is if it's a stroker motor, lots of head work, big cam, etc. You could dump in a STOCK turbo motor, put just a few mods like boost controller, intercooler, better fuel pump, MUCH less money invested, and get about that much power at the wheels, plus get better mileage (17-23mpg's) and have a car much easier and more enjoyable to drive on the street. I had a built up, high compression N/A motor that I spent a lot of money and put a lot of work into, and my turbo motor with just the mods listed in my sig below, is much faster. And, for your specific example of a 350hp turbo... I dont think you're gonna build ANY streetable N/A motor that would be able to keep up with that, ESPECIALLY on the freeway. Turbos are much better on the top end... the N/A would have more advantage, say, taking off from dead stop... after that it'd be all over. I'm not trying to be negative but man I went down that road and in retrospect I feel it was such a waste of time and money to build up the N/A, when for the same amount of money invested I'll end up with close to 75hp more at the wheels, and MUCH more room to grow with easy mods, whereas with my N/A I was pretty much at the limit w/o doing major engine work. The hardest part about doing the turbo swap is the wiring which really isn't THAT hard at all... something like 6 wires need to be spliced and that's it, the rest just wires exactly the way it was in the turbo car. And I'll bet money it's easier to do that than it is to tune tripples right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Much less money huh, Bryan? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 I get about 20 mpg on the highway... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Tim - well I did run into problems with my turbo swap that I would think (and HOPE!!) most people would not. Hmmm well let me tally it up here... figure, both motors went into my 240, and I payed the same amount of labor for the motor swaps.. I forget what it was, like $500-600, so they are equal there, I payed a bit more for the wiring BUT I think just about anyone could easily do the wiring themselves with this swap. My N/A motor... hmm... well it was close to like $2000 to rebuild it, with a .060 overbore and flattops, an N42 head with only minor work (the headwork needed for a 250hp motor would easily add at LEAST another few hundred to this price), polished stainless valves, new rockers, $150 added to that when I got my cam. Nearly $700 for the rebuilt SU's... good tripples will cost anywhere from $300 to $1500 I think, not to mention the money you will NEED to spend on jets and stuff to try to tune them. So, close to $3k, but after lots of little stuff, I remember my total investment came close to $5k when all was said and done and that motor was in my 240. The turbo donor car and swap initially cost me $1900, BUT you gotta figure I also took the radiator, 5spd tranny, and 3.54 rear end out of it. These parts were ALL recently refreshed... the tranny shifts like brand new, the radiator was recored, and the diff had like NO play. Also the wiring harness. You can find donor cars for less, or just pick up the motor with the wiring harness. I picked up a decent used turbo motor with manifolds and turbo for $300. wiring harness and ECU would probably be another couple hundred. Now, if you want to count my bad luck, then add another $800 that I spent to that to rebuild the head, and put new rings and bearings in the block, and maybe another $200-300 in other parts that have since gone bad such as starter/alternator(s)/water pump, but these things are seperate from the swap and could have gone bad at any time with any engine. Hmm... I guess in the end the prices are close... I guess with both, my total investment in the swap approaches 5k... without the problems I've had, the turbo would easily come out cheaper, but even if the investment is equal, I still ended up with a much faster car with the turbo, and now that most of the bugs have been ironed out, the car runs much better too, and gets much better mpg's. And I do know that many people on this board have gotten lucky with junkyard donors and spent very little money on swapping in a turbo and getting big power #'s out of them, whereas there is no N/A motor davidh is gonna be able to buy and just drop in like that and get that kind of power, unless he buys a rebello motor, and those motors are $5k on the cheap side. And remember, I've still got SO much room to grow, power-wise... I still haven't put in an intercooler, I still need a 3" mandrel exhaust... then bigger injectors, better fuel pump, better EFI system, better turbo... so much more can be done, some guys on this board are getting easy 300+hp on stock motors, whereas with my N/A motor the only other thing I could have done would have been to put a better head with lots more work on it, and might have gotten a little over 200hp at the wheels after that, and that woulda been it. There's just more room to grow with a stock turbo motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted November 20, 2003 Share Posted November 20, 2003 Triples and a high hp n/a motor has no comparison with fuel mileage. My setup gets me 27mpg, cruising 80-90 mph. Of course, at my altitude, the n/a motor can't keep up anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidh Posted November 21, 2003 Author Share Posted November 21, 2003 well thanks guys. its just that its hard to find a turbo motor around here. i was just looking for opinions too. i guess theres no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Build it and come see me and my "no comparison" 3L NA motored 240Z at Willow Springs Raceway. In fact, any of you Turbo boys want to run against me? Go here and sign up for the event next April: http://www.opentrackchallenge.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I was waiting for that. I'd take the Pepsi challenge with a turbo Z too, on a road course or at an autox. They did specify "highway" driving though. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 john - no ones saying you can't build a really fast N/A... it's not 'no comparison' per se. To me, having tried both paths, it just seems to be easier, cheaper, and more predictable to get high power #'s out of a turbo motor, and w/o needing to rebuild the motor from top to bottom. There are plenty of really fast N/A Z's out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I know. I'm just doggin' the turbo guys to get someone out to the track. Can't seem to get the V8 guys to come out and play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I know. I'm just doggin' the turbo guys to get someone out to the track. Can't seem to get the V8 guys to come out and play... Come on, John.......why not just drop in a V8 into your Z and do a comparo. Your L6 is in pieces right? Great timing! Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nic-Rebel450CA Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Davidh, in regards to your original question, no. Unless the turbo motor is geared bad and your N/A is geared perfect, you are not going to get an engine with less HP in the same car be able to keep up or go faster. If you want an N/A with 350HP to be able to keep with a turbo, drop in a V8! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 If I had the money and KNEW really closely how much it was going to cost and how long it would take... and had the choice to make again, I'd most likely go V8. But that would only be if I already knew the solutions to all the important questions/problems that would arise... I mean I'd really want the whole thing mapped out way before I even started. I still think doing a good V8 swap would cost more than doing a turbo swap, but I know a few people feel differently.... I really can't argue it either way, but considering the amount of custom work that needs to go into, as opposed to turbo which litteraly just bolts right in, it seems like it wouldn't be as cheap or easy. But, I can definately attest to the fact that a turbo swap can sometimes be nowhere near as easy as it first looks Turbo is good but I'd rather have the V8 for instant torque... no waiting for the boost, no struggling off the line. Though I will always agree that EFI is the way to go for better power, mileage, etc. I'd do a nice old fashioned big 4bbl on a 350 in a heartbeat, because this is technology that I understand, can diagnose and work on easily... it's the stuff I grew up with. Many times the Turbo EFI just has me scratching my head or worse pulling hair out by the handfull. But one day... some way, I WILL build a 240 with a carbed 350 in it, putting down around 300hp, with a nice T56, and I will be happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 John & Jon No fair beatin' up on the 16 PSI, 500 HP, street tired, 340 treadwear, soft springed, 2800 lb, monroe shocked street 'n strip cars. Heck, my little stock motor L24 with maybe 160HP gross, and monkey designed suspension smacks down twin turbos all day long on an autocross. Flame suit on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Good one!!! Turbo and V8 guys can take a joke or two or three, can't they??? We'll soon see... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 John & Jon No fair beatin' up on the 16 PSI' date=' 500 HP, street tired, 340 treadwear, soft springed, 2800 lb, monroe shocked street 'n strip cars. Heck, my little stock motor L24 with maybe 160HP gross, and monkey designed suspension smacks down twin turbos all day long on an autocross. Flame suit on![/quote'] Autocross has never been about power. Years ago when I autocrossed my Honda 1200 Civic in C or D street prepared, I'd lay the smack down on monster V8 mustangs and camaros. Can you say 60hp to the ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 We used to have a REALLY fast EP Ford Fiesta in our autox club. You don't know how many Vettes and Stangs I saw pointing and laughing when they came in, and crying when they went out. Another case in point is the 2 separate Vipers I beat in my Toyota P/U. They weren't too happy either... Our club rented a track and I passed that Fiesta at about 40 mph faster than him. I thought he was broken!!! Sleeper is right, autox is definitely not a hp game. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 On the other hand, there are some super fast F-body CP cars around too. Camaros, when setup right, can be potent autox cars that can match or beat a well setup Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 I got 20 mpg with triples. If you got less then that, you need to learn to tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.