JMortensen Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 I know this thing has a certain bling factor, and I know that 13000 rpm is ridiculous, but this would allow you to mill a head and not bother with shimming the cam towers and changing lash pads, assuming you had an adj cam gear. Plus should eliminate worn chain guides and tensioners, tensioner popping out on accident (I know there are other fixes for that) and should be quieter, more reliable (not really an issue, but looks more reliable) and would possibly eliminate some chain wear over time by controlling it better. EDIT-Did I mention more accurate timing? Or am I wrong? Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I'm sure everything you've listed is true. I just look at $440 + shipping and figure that's almost of a set of forged pistons or a turbo or a Nissan Comp header and Borla XR-1 muffler or a non-exclusive test day at Buttonwillow. All of which will make me and my car faster around a race track, which the 13,000 rpm chain thingy won't. But, then my perspective has always been a bit warped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I just look at $440 + shipping and figure that's almost of a set of forged pistons... Okay, well, half a set of forged pistons... ...maybe if you have an SR20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I already got forged pistons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnkondo-web.hp.infoseek.co.jp%2Fhyoushi.htm here is a good site from japan' date=' the tunner is called shake down. I do believe they will have some usfull parts for your L6 build up, including a timing tensioner that will let you rev to 13,000rpm! tbs[/quote'] Actually, "Shake Down" are just one of the many companies in Japan who are retailing the part. The design and manufacturing of the new twin idler tensioner was undertaken by Kameari Engine Works. Its even got their name on it. Its a bit disheartening to see people seemingly dismiss this as a bling-factor bolt-on. I actually know Mr Mori - the designer of the part and the owner of Kameari Engine Works - very well, and have been dealing with his company for some years. He developed the new tensioner over the last two years in an attempt to cure particular problems caused by the standard chain tensioning system on the L6 engines. These problems only really manifest themselves at high rpm and / or on high output engines, and the '13,000 rpm' figure is quoted only to stress that the tensioner is safe and reliable up to a ridiculously high rpm that would never be seen anyway ( as has been pointed out ). I was at Kameari just over a week and a half ago, and I discussed the new tensioner with Mr Mori. He says that they saw quite a lot of power loss on their race engines due to variations in cam timing caused by the standard tensioner system. I don't pretend to understand everything about the problems of chain whip and cam timing issues on these engines, but I can see that the new tensioner has a better chance of controlling cam timing than the original system, which was of course never intended for high-rpm high-output use. The lower plunger and foot is replaced with a roller-bearing idler gear, and the left hand chain guide is eliminated altogether - to be replaced by the adjustable tensioner on the front of the head. If your eyes pop out at the price of it, then I urge you to take a moment and think why it could cost so much. Well, for one thing its made in Japan ( and made well ) - and Japanese labour costs, as well as all other costs, are higher than just about anywhere else in the world. Many of the Japanese-made auto parts that you buy in the USA are subject to market-adjusted prices ( to your advantage ). This means that you sometimes pay LESS for the same item than Mr Average Z-owner in Japan does. Unfortunately, the US Dollar is fairly weak against the Yen at the moment - so this will make it seem even more expensive than it otherwise would. However, the part is certainly not aimed at the US market. Its aimed at the Japanese market, and it is selling fairly well with no reported problems or issues. If anyone was going to market a part like this in the USA then I'm sure that they would aim at reducing the retail cost for the USA market, and hence hope to sell well. This is the way that so many Z cars were sold to the USA in the first place............ Kameari are one of the leading suppliers of performance parts for the L-series engine in Japan, and have been established for some years now. They have always proved their parts on the track as well as on the street. The parts that they make are performance oriented, and not intended simply to impress by their looks alone or any associated 'wow factor'. I think it would be unfair for Kameari to be subject to Judge, Jury and Executioner without any chance of them speaking in their own defence. I'm sure that there would be somebody better qualified than me to defend them, but in the meantime I felt honour-bound to speak up for a company that is still being pro-active and innovative ( not to mention brave ) in making parts for these old cars that we love. Lord knows, there's not too many of them out there these days................. Alan T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Well I will buy one and scope it out, if someone will just tell me how to order it with a credit card. Bling bling or not, that mutha is going to look good with my BHJ balancer on there. Come on, have cash, will buy, just need to know where and how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Okay, well, half a set of forged pistons... My last set was $700 from JE, but then I got a real good guy price 'cuz I seem to be going through a lot of them. What kind of power is Kameari Engine Works geting from their NA L6 engines using the two valve head? The upper limit here in the US is around 340hp SAE corrected at 8,500 rpm. The rpm (and thus horsepower) limits Rebello and Sunbelt hit are set by the crank and the rods, not cam timing or chain issues. If Kameari is getting more horsepower at higher rpms as a result of their cam chain system, then I'll happily eat my words and buy their setup. A caveat, I'm not an engine guy so I'm just parroting what I've been told after spending tens of thousands of dollars on a 7400 rpm 320 hp NA L6. (note the new numbers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 Nice numbers John! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I just did some surfing for forged pistons and Vienola forged pistons, part number 10420 are listed a $80 each at flatlander racing. Are these no-good for a 14-15:1 motor? The whole timing chain thing could be improved greatly, I think. Chain whip and dynamics aside, the most basic issue I've seen is they wear. Where do the little pieces of the tensioner and guide go when they wear off? It can't be good for the oiling system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest godspeed_racing Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 He needs to generate the numbers on a SAE calibrated engine dyno if he wants anyone like Dave and Jim to believe him. John, if by "Dave" you mean Dave Rebello, I spent a considerable amount of time yesterday talking to one of his customers who has a normally aspirated Rebello L6 making comfortably in excess of 350HP and a good torque curve (he did not want me to share his name and exact HP/torque since he does not want his competition to know what his motor is doing). According to him, Rebello does believe that 400HP is do-able . Not to flame, but I thought I'd share this with this group - it keeps me excited. I could call Dave, but the final HP is not that important to me as long as its fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 I ever get to the point where the nissan trannies start failing me quickly, out comes the t10... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 According to him, Rebello does believe that 400HP is do-able As a devoted NA guy (turbos are for lazy engine builders ) I would love to see that come true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxtman Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 does naturally aspirated mean no nos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigWhyteDude Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 yes, N/A is ALL engine. No forced induction or happy gas That doesnt mean you cant use it for parties Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 What kind of power is Kameari Engine Works geting from their NA L6 engines using the two valve head? The upper limit here in the US is around 340hp SAE corrected at 8' date='500 rpm. The rpm (and thus horsepower) limits Rebello and Sunbelt hit are set by the crank and the rods, not cam timing or chain issues. If Kameari is getting more horsepower at higher rpms as a result of their cam chain system, then I'll happily eat my words and buy their setup. [/quote'] Mr Mori told me that they have seen just over 400ps at the flywheel on their best drag engines. Yes, that's PS ( Pferdestarke ) rather than BHP, so off the top of my head that's knocking 390BHP? That's with their own crank, rods, pistons, cam etc and on 50mm Mikunis with their own hybrid electronic distributor setup. Indeed, nothing all that fancy except perhaps for the crank. They often build hot 'street-use' engines to around the 350 to 360ps mark. I watched them rolling-road dyno ( Bosch ) a customer car which showed over 320ps whilst I was there a few years ago. Again, nothing seemed very 'fancy' on that engine and it was all very low tech. Nobody should be all that surprised at high power Nissan L6 engines in Japan. They've been doing it for years. The early to mid Eighties was something of a peak when it came to L6 tuning in Japan, and magazines like Car Boy were running features on engine builders like Kakimoto Racing, who were coming up with good power figures and running drag cars that were pretty fast. Pretty soon after that the focus switched more to turbos and electronics......... This chain tensioner setup is ( surely? ) mainly about keeping cam timing stable at high rpm. Mr Mori said that variations in cam timing caused by the stock-type chain tensioner were giving them problems, and that in some cases this caused engine failures. I certainly don't think they are selling it as a cure-all, or something that will instantly release free horsepower. That's the trouble with looking at an internet advertising blurb that's not even composed by the original manufacturer. Some people tend to read more into it than they should, and some people are more sceptical than necessary. At the end of the day, the best thing to do is to talk to the designer and manufacturer about it.... Alan T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 400 ps is 394.52 hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 26, 2004 Share Posted February 26, 2004 According to him, Rebello does believe that 400HP is do-able As a devoted NA guy (turbos are for lazy engine builders ) I would love to see that come true. Lets see you bust 129mph in the quarter like some lazy engine builder. I want one of those idler pulley things, someone figure out how to order one, and I will order it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbobluestreak Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Lockjaw if you get your hands on one I would love to see it on your z. Also as a side note my head got pushed back due to lack of the proper cutter. It will be here next week. Soon guys I'll have a head ready to show. tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Well its been kinda frustrating, sort of like I was trying to buy drugs or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 Lockjaw, check your PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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