JMortensen Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 EDIT-opie, you are confusing two entirely different things. American cars have "carrier breaks" where you use one carrier for 2.73-3.54 gears, and a different carrier for 3.73 - 4.11, as an example. A ring gear spacer sits between the ring gear and the carrier so that you can use a 4.11 gear on a 2.73 carrier, for instance. Nissans just have thicker and thicker ring gears the lower the gear ratio, and AFAIK there is never a need to change the carrier when changing gear ratios. IMO ring gear spacers (not bolt spacers, but ring gear spacers) are a bad idea. The carrier has a pilot where the ring gear fits on very tightly, and when you use a ring gear spacer the ring gear is no longer press fit on the carrier, and you have to use longer bolts to attach it. So basically the ring gear is now supported only by the bolts, which are longer and weaker than the originals, and you've now put in a lower gear ratio, which means more torque going to them. Not good. This is a ring gear BOLT spacer we're talking about. The earlier R200's had 10mm ring gear bolts, the later ones had 12mm bolts. The bolts go thru the carrier and screw into the ring gear. So if you have a later LSD from a 300 ZX and you want to swap it into an earlier housing (for a different gear ratio) you have 12mm holes in the carrier but 10mm threads in the ring gear. So you need a spacer to take up the space in the holes in the carrier. No machining needed. Just get 12mm tubing with 1mm wall thickness, and cut it to the thickness of the carrier, deburr/chamfer, and drop them in. The bolt heads on the 10mm bolts are 14mm so they should easily cover the ring gear spacers. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Ok this is getting out of hand. 1-2126 asked whether he could use the nismo carrier in 280ZX, if the carrier is Part No specific to 280ZX or Z31 yes he can provided he can get Z31 viscous LSD driveshafts or makes custom driveshafts. 2- What I was trying to point out in my earlier post is that in 280ZX and Z31 the 8mm side bearing spacer is used on the right hand side for both pinion sizes whether there are different offsets in the carriers or as Jon has implied there are thicker and thinner crownwheels you would have to ask a diff expert that has pulled enough apart. 3- But in the later 200SX-240SX shortnose diffs they use one carrier offset for both pinions using the 8mm side bearing spacer on the right for the larger pinion and on the left for the smaller pinion. 4- So if you see one advertised on ebay or elsewhere privately and the seller isn,t positive of what it is for or says it fits all R200s dont buy it unless it is cheap enough to take a punt. 5- I revise what I said earlier in that the bolt spacers need to be interference fit, if they are a neat fit you can probably you can just use the same sealant locking compound used on the bolts to keep them in place. 6- I am just finalising custom tripod drive shafts using the 200SX-240SX inner CV and 280ZX-Z31 outer CV with an adapter to make the outer CV an end stop instead of spring loaded sliding. Stay posted. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opie Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 I don't think Steve misunderstood, as I know I didn't in what the "ring gear" spacers are used for--his info was in addition to type of post. IOW, something else to consider--and I agreed. Spacers aren't bad. The Pontiac motors I'm speaking of will commonly be in the torque range of 400-500 on the ordinary street motors and the spacers/gears stay put--they will walk if the wrong Loke-tite and torque is used, but that's common with no spacer setups. IMO, the bolt bushings we're also talking about here are the equivalent of a ring gear spacer in that they will introduce potential "slop" if not done correctly. Ring Gear spacers and bolt bushings, neither were the origianl question though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Neil, so you are coming up with a CV axle conversion kit? Could be interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Yes Richard. I,ve drawn it all up in cad, located some one in Melbourne to shorten and respline 200SX-240SX driveshafts and will machine the Outer CV housing as well as the adapter. Ive ordered the last of my diff parts from Nissan when they come in I'll do its final assy. I originally measued the shaft lengths with the diff spacer on the right only to realise it needs to be on the left which alters the shaft lengths slightly. Note I am working on 280ZX earlier Zs may need different shaft lengths. No I am not going to make a kit as such just provide the info. As to tripod strength the driveshaft company that I dealt with last year said that Ford Australia trialled them behind 4.6 litre Cobra Jet? motors and found that behind the 6 speed man they failed because they drove the needle rollers into the tripod. So they went the same way as Holden using plunging type CVs. But if anyone else on this site has broken them please start another thread to discuss it. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Steve-Z Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 What I was trying to get, but not doing a very good job at it, was - is the carrier you are trying to buy, that has 12mm threads, dimensionally equivalent, in all ways, to the normal old style R-200 carrier. I'm just asking questions to make sure you don't get sold a LSD carrier that won't work in your application. If it is, and the 10mm bolt will not grind its way into the cast iron carrier, then a spacer, in my opinion, would work. And I am willing to make one set of these spacers, at no charge, to see how much time it would take to make them. Steve-Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 What I have found out with nissan carriers is for the R200 (short or long nose) is all the carriers is they seem to be the same size. I have put a viscus carrer (91 z32) into my long nose R200 and it seems to have the same gear mesh and backlash as the stock one did. My friend bought a helical carrier (and side stubs) off ebay from Japan. Then he and I put it in a Z32 housing and put it in his 240SX. It's backlash and mesh seemed fine and it has worked great as a daily driver and a weekend autoxr. I know I have limited experience in this but if you can take one from a Z32 and put it in an older housing (with spacers). Then swap the short nose around without changing anything I think they are about the same size. I know I will be told I am wrong but it worked. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmyntti Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I saw a seller on Ebay selling a Nismo clutch type LSD and asked him if it would fit my long nose. He replied that it would not fit the early housing and only fit the later ones. He had bought it to put in an early Z31 and found out he could not use it. Since he had no reason to lie to me about this I would assume that there is a difference in the carriers from the long versus short nose R200 and the Nismo unit is for the newer short nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Hi Don a few questions. 1- What was the ratio of the long nose that you installed the Z32 carrier into? 2- What was the ratio that you installed on the Helical carrier? 3- Also Doug71ZT has posted that his Z32na was 13mm crown wheel bolts. There was considerable discussion last year on this issue with stony and brokebolt and we still dont have the definative answer. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Don - I assume that you are using spacers from 13mm down to 12mm or 10mm bolts. What did you use for axle shafts? Z31 SS (Shiro) shafts or a custom setup. I'm very interested. Thanks - Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 First, I have not run my my Z yet with the viscus LSD yet but I will use the stubs from the Z32. Modified to run the stock Ujoints as an experiment, I have 280t CV's for when I put in the big motor. Ratio is 3.54 and I did not use spacers it is just siting there with the ring gear pressed onto the carrier and a couple of 10mm bolts holding it. I would never run it this way as I will make some sleeves. Second, I don't know what the ratios were. He just found a Z32 in the JY and pulled the diff for the conversion. He found that there is not a (in his knowlege) car in the USA that has side stubs that will fit the helical carrier. He tried (from what I remember) 240sx, 280z, R230, R200 viscus and others. Third, I have only heard of two sizes of bolts on a R200. Maybe it is 12 at the threads and 13 on the shoulder? Was Doug talking about a R230? Dmyntti The seller might have been thinking about the bolt sizes as the reason it wouldn't work. When I bought my new nismo clutch lsd I talked to nissan motorsports and MSA to find out which was which and which was better and they (12mm and 10mm) said there was not any diffrence other than bolt size. They had not heard of any problems with the 10mm bolts. Hope this helps Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Thanks Don, Still leaves me with the suspicion that this may not work with 10 tooth pinions of 3.7-3.9 ratios but I guess we wait till someone tries it to confirm or deny the possibility. By the way Nissan went back to Viscous centre for 350Z. Cheers Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dp351zcar Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 If I remember correctly the diff I pulled the viscus carrier out of had a 4.08 ratio. I do know that it was a na Z32. So if that was the case you should not have a problem with a 3.7 or 3.9. The viscus LSD's don't cost much in the junk yards but you will need the get the side stubs for the carrier. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Neil - I measured the shank of the bolts - 12.94mm. If your carrier has 12.10 mm holes - I think we have a problem. Is your carrier from a 200 or 240 sx instead of a Z32 N/A? Or am I just on cheap crack? Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Ok I'm Back Firstly for Don I researched the carrier (case) Part Nos for 280zx -Z31 and they use the same carriers for both pinion sizes so jmortensens theory of thicker crownwheels for the smaller pinion appears to be correct meaning the Z32-S13 carrier should be suitable with both pinion sizes. My carrier came out of 200SX-S13 48/11 4.363, US 240SX was 49/12 4.083, European 200SX was 47/12 3.916. Since Z32and S13 were produced 89-94 it is not suprising that Don has found them to be interchangeble. Doug why you carrier is 13mm crown bolts so far I have no explanation, mine were 12mm with 22mm reach. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Thanks for the info Neil - My diff came out of a 93 Z32 N/A. But it is definitely an R200V. Time to check it out with the Nissan parts people.. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxgts-4 Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Hi Doug Picked up my diff parts today, except finned rear cover, according to Aus nissan Z32 NA use a different part No for the drivegear bolt. 38102-10V00 instead of the 12mm 38102-12S00 indicating that Z32NA probably are all 13mm bolts, this No is also applicable to the new Z33- 350Z. The Z33 diff housing has also been revised, appears to be longer behind the axle shaft entry, internals appear similar to previous R200V. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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