Ivan280zt Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Ok here is whats going on. I just spent three hours (yes i typed it right) cleanning 14 holes in block to make sure that they are clean. I used right size tap and whole can of wd40. i think that i have ran that tap about 15 times through each hole every time spraying wd through it until there is absolutelly no dirt whatsoever. Now here is my problem. When i went to put my studs in (trial fit) when hand tighten most of them had about two threads still sticking out (there is no side play or anything they are in there nice and firm) but about four of them went in all the way with out any threads being out. So now i am wondering is this normal or what? There is no way that they are going in any further even if tighen them down some and when i take them out and look in the hoole its all super clean so now i am confused on what should i do? Keep running that tap harder (cant think of anything else) or just leave it as is? Does anyone has any experience with Arp head studs that can give me some input. Ps. on side note on apr box it said to tighen the studs hand tight any opinions on this? or should i tighten it down just little bit with tool? I am sorry if this dont make too much sense but its 5am and i am about to pass out so i apaolgize in advance. Thanks, Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 15 times in each hole with the tap, sounds like you could have over sized the thread ID, are you sure that the 4 or so that bottom out do not wiggle at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Taylor Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Ivan, On the toyota pickup I had the same thing happen. I took 2 nuts and tightened them against each other on the stud and screwed them down a bit. I asked a machine shop here in town about it and they said they tell you to put them hand tight to make sure they don't bottom out. JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 All ARP studs are to be hand tightened....do not use back to back nuts or any type of tool to tighthen them down.....just hand tight fellas. Here is a word of caution, sometimes oil or fluid gets down in the hole and creates a hydraulic pressure against the stud that you are trying to run down (by hand), causing the misconception that the stud is all the way down in the hole, when really it is not. this is why you may have a few studs higher than the others + you mentioned you used a whole can of WD40!!?? With the ARPs, all you need to do is make you chase the threads once only and make sure the holes are bone dry. When you run the studs in by hand all you need is a dab of 30weight oil (preferred over the ARP Moly Slip grease). I hope that helps. I am building a serious turbo Toyota engine right now with ARPs and all the good stuff. Best regards - Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Are you putting the correct ends in on all the studs? Opposite ends are threaded differently... Just a thought, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan280zt Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 Mike, Yes i am using right ends because one side is standard other one is metric. Slownrusty, reason that i have used whole can of wd is to make sure that all the dirt was out and it just happens that there was quite a bit in most of them but you did however remind me of something. when i was cleaning them out on the ones that i really took my time on studs almost went in all the way and on the one that i just used little wd and went through with tap once or twice ended up going in all the way so maybe i just created hydraulic pressure is most of them? what can i do about that? JT, I did the same thing tighten two nuts against each other just to see how far will it go down and it bareally went down any maybe one extra thread. So what did u end up on that truck motor did u just screw them as far as they would go with hand and left few threads stick out or did you figure out how to get them all to go down? BillZ260, Yes i have used right size tap 100% sure about that and four of them that bottom out do not wiggle at all they are in there so nice that it makes rest of them jeleous . On the side note i did something messed up (it was 4am when i did this so dont flame me for it). When i tried to screw one of the studs in just to see if it will go far enough i got it in too tight and the only way to get it out (at the time that my brain was 5% operational) was with pliers long story short i scratched the stud some not much but little more than just paint now how bad is that? am i do for new one or will it be fine with little deeper scratch on it? Thanks for your help guys, Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Replace the scratched stud, it sounds like you are building a pretty serious engine and you don't want to build it again because you decided to save a buck and ignore an oops. As far as my opinion on the stud issue I agree that you probably created hydraulic pressure in the hole. My suggestion is to get some rest, then when you are fresh go back out take a new clean rag (t-shirt or some other thin cotton rag) then use a screw driver to push the rag into each of the holes and let the rag soak up any liquid that may be in there. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan280zt Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 So then i should replace that stud man that sux will arp sell me a single stud because i cant afford to buy whole set for $120 and if they do sell single studs where can i get one? Thanks, Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 ARP sell single replacement studs. Their tech support number is listed on their website and is very knowledgeable and friendly. I have spoken to them MANY times! You need to dry those holes 101% before putting those studs in, with a rag, with a vauum, turning the block upside down, what ever you can do. And you don't need me to tell you this, but building a serious engine, 4am and 5% operational brain is a BAD mix my friend. Good luck. Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan280zt Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 Hahaha who said anything about serious turbo engine all i got is 150k long block that is getting some head studs and new head gasket . But no excuses . I was just checking that stud that i "damaged" and you know when you use pliers sp to loosen something it will leave marks on two sides but not on whole stud. on one of those two sides all i did say scratch paint and on other side its paint and little bit of metal (i mean just little bit) but i am going to go and call their tech line and see what they have to say . Thanks Yasin. Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilRufusKay Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Ivan, Running a tap into a pre-tapped hole even once will remove more material than you want unless it is a really old tap. Old engine builders will keep extremely worn taps to clean out threads. ARP actually sells taps for this job. CHASER TAPS I am afraid you may need to drill, tap, and go to a larger stud. Hope this helps. Sorry to hear you are having troubles. Rufus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan280zt Posted March 30, 2004 Author Share Posted March 30, 2004 Well just got of phone with ARP and they said not to even worry about i guess i am not the first one who did this . i explained to him that on one side its just paint scratch and on other side same thing plus little notch and tech guy told me that wont change anything strenght wise. now i guess that i should be good worst case scenario when (key word when) i get my car running i will triple check to see how studs are holding and if there is any issue coming from area where that stud is i will go and replace it them so time will tell. Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Ivan, the reason I said "serious engine" is because you went to the effort of buying ARP studs in the first place... There is a book called "Engineer to Win" that was written by Carol Smith (you can find this book in almost any Barnes and Noble) the book goes into amazing detail of what can happen to a stressed metal part that has a scratch in it, there are a lot of good photos as well. A story of what happened to me is I tried to save $15 by using "spiroloks" on my new engine instead of "wireloks" the results of that savings was that one of the spiroloks came out and allowed my wrist pin to score my cylinder wall. The cost was $1000 to repair the damage, replace the damaged parts, and purchase the wireloks with new wrist pins. I now have a $3000 engine in my car that cost $4000. The lesson here is don't try to save a buck now to find it will cost you many times more later. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennysgreen280zt Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I used cotton swabs (ie Q-tips) to clean out the WD40 and carb cleaner I had put into my bolt holes after chasing them. It worked really well, but took alot of swabs. My ARP's went all the way in without any problems. HTH ~Kenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluto Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Hey Ivan, Whats shakin man.. you may be well past this now but if you still need to get some wd out of the holes get a can of compressed air used for cleaning computers.. itll blast it right out. Sorry Ive been incommunicado for abit, ive just had alot going on with moving in to the new place, school and being a broke mofo. Not sure if garrett got it to ya but my new phone number is 937-1487.. give me a call.. im always thinkin ill catch you asleep with you workin goofy hours Good luck, Sam btw, i have the torque wrench out of storage if its still needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Before you try tapping that hole again, you need to go out and get a "bottoming" tap. This type of tap is not tapered on the end like a regular tap, and will cut threads all the way to the bottom of the hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan280zt Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 Sam, whats up man where u been hiding . garrett got me torque wrench from friend of his and i am about to go and put that motor together any day now. last weekend that duche bag blew his head gasket and Evan will be coming over this saturday and sunday to help him out and give me held too so if you have time you are more than welcome to come over too. Yeah i was gonna use that can of air but i forgot to get some since i used last can on stupid crap lol but i will get some when i get off work tonight. TimZ, i am going to dry those holes first and if it dont make much difference i will be getting that tap then. Kennysgreen280zt, nice call on those cottom swabs bud i will do that first thing tonight. Thanks guys, Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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