VK45DE + VK56DE = a change of underwear

[MrWOT]

Well, I've been poring over what engine to build up for my Z project (engine first, then worry about the car, I'll MAKE it fit ) and I thought about turbos, and having already had both a powerul turbo car (1986 mustang SVO @ 23psi ~360hp) and a powerful NA car (1991 taurus SHO @ 312hp) my original idea was to build the SHO motor with twin turbos, unfortuneatly it appears I can't make it fit without having extensive plumbing and either horizontal intercoolers or rear mounted ICs, so I went back to the drawing board.

 

That's about the time when my father gave me a ring and asked me to go shopping for a new truck with him. I of course immediately suggested the new Nissan Titan as I wanted to take a peek at the motor. Much to my surprise the motor was badged as a VK56DE, a VK45DE being the powerplant in a Inifini Q45 and packing about 340hp and 305ft/lbs. Now I was expecting great things from the truck as it also featured dohc, and it performed fabulously, LOTS of torque, smooth accel and redline of 6k. I did some research and found that the VK56DE is the same block as the VK45DE, so it begged to me a question.... How would the VK56DE perform with the VVT heads from the VK45DE? I figure it would require some headwork to open up the combustion chambers to lower compression a bit, but with the 45 heads and a recalibrated computer to give proper A/F ratio, a 5.6 liter dohc with vvt sounds pretty damn appealing to me!

 

This is the link where I discovered the block is the same, it has a good rundown on the titan too, if your so inclined.

 

http://www.ai-online.com/issues/article_detail.asp?id=235

 

Below is a graph of the hp and torque curve on the VK56DE, linked to infinitinews. Torque is excellent, now just open up the breathing with those 45 heads and even better low end with the VVT, imagine the possibility! Not to mention the 6k redline... drool....

 

http://www.infinitinews.com/nissan/2004vehicles/armada/power_chart.pdf

 

I figure it would be very close, if not over the corvette LS6 numbers, I'm thinking if they can do 400hp and 400ft lbs out of 5.7 pushrod, a 4 valve 5.6 should scream with proper breathing!

 

Now someone rich go do it and tell me how it works out http://[/url]

[karay240]

I know this is an old thread, but I had to post.

 

If both of the motors are the same block, why not just use the 5.6 crank (I was under the impresstion that it was 5.7 for some reason. . . oh well) and aftermarket pistons etc. . .

 

get a wrecked Q45 (they're even cheap prewrecked. lol), and buy the 5.6 crank, and use aftermarket pistons (and maybe rods, depending on your future goals). That would probably a lot cheaper/simpler than buying an antire 5.6 motor and pieces of the 4.5.

 

Then you wouldn't have to worry about wiring at all, and the only thing new would be internals that you'd have to buy.

 

Thanks for the info on the motors. I have a friend (one of our mechanics) that's getting a Q, and he was a little down, b/c the only parts for the car are offered only in Japan. He's got the VIP style body, wheels, exhaust etc, but no real go fast parts. I'm sure he'll be happy to hear about the 5.7 crank idea.

 

Kenny

http://www.rbmotoring.com

[Guest Domspun]

I know this is an old thread' date=' but I had to post.

 

If both of the motors are the same block, why not just use the 5.6 crank (I was under the impresstion that it was 5.7 for some reason. . . oh well) and aftermarket pistons etc. . .

 

get a wrecked Q45 (they're even cheap prewrecked. lol), and buy the 5.6 crank, and use aftermarket pistons (and maybe rods, depending on your future goals). That would probably a lot cheaper/simpler than buying an antire 5.6 motor and pieces of the 4.5.

 

Then you wouldn't have to worry about wiring at all, and the only thing new would be internals that you'd have to buy.

 

Thanks for the info on the motors. I have a friend (one of our mechanics) that's getting a Q, and he was a little down, b/c the only parts for the car are offered only in Japan. He's got the VIP style body, wheels, exhaust etc, but no real go fast parts. I'm sure he'll be happy to hear about the 5.7 crank idea.

 

Kenny

www.rbmotoring.com

Does it only need the crank or it need the rods too?

I like the idea, kind of a stroker kit!

[Zgringo]

Why not just get a VK56 short block and be done with it?

[quicker240]

just wondering since we're on the subject,are Titans offered with a standard tranny?or Automatics only?Kinda be a cure to the bolt up standard trans issue maybe?

[Zgringo]

just wondering since we're on the subject,are Titans offered with a standard tranny?or Automatics only?Kinda be a cure to the bolt up standard trans issue maybe?

 

There only offered in automatic, but with the desire you could adapt a standard to it.

[karay240]

but what tranny's going to handle that much torque? . . . not the 300Z tranny. The only options are going to be a domestic tranny (crappy) or a dog box (very expensive!)

 

. . . But I guess if you can afford the Titan motor, you're not hurting for cash either. lol.

 

The reason I mentioned transplanting only the crank and getting the machining done was that it's a lot cheaper than buying a Titan short block. Plus the mounting points, sensors, etc. are probably going to be different

 

Kenny

http://www.rbmotoring.com

[crazy280]

The 300zx twin-turbo tranny frequently sees 400-500 lb-ft from modified vg30dett, so I'm sure it could take the torque of the 5.6, but I don't think it would mate up to the VK-series engines. There is a guy in Japan that did a VK45 swap (plus twin turbos!!) into a 240Z and I THINK he used a Skyline manual trans, but I can't remember for sure. You should be able to find a link to his car on this site somewhere.

Hope this helps.

 

EDIT:

There's also a guy named "Lost" on this site with a Z32 that has a twin-turbo'd VK45 swapped, and he's using the 300zx manual trans with it.

[datsunlover]

I'll second that one.. I've even heard of guys pushing 600 horse through those 5 gears.. There was a guy here a few years back with one (snotty little rich kid.. grr..) mildly mod'd and he thrashed the thing evrywhere.. Burned the tires out evry chance, power shifting, very abusive. (I think he eventually blew the motor up), but the tranny held up...

[Gollum]

i think most people would be suprised to find out how much power a mild performance tranny can take. The T-56 is only rated at 440 lb max tourque (summit racing catalog) but it will withstand well over 800hp no sweat. I think companies just like to cover thier bottom end about these things. Rate then low so nobody breaks one and blames you.

[datsunlover]

... I think companies just like to cover thier bottom end about these things. Rate then low so nobody breaks one and blames you.

 

In my expirience, that is exactly what happens. Most mechanical devices, automotive/industrial parts, and so on, that have a rating for load, stress, torque, weight, ect, are rated so you can use them almost forever at that rating and not have a failure. Yes it will take more than its rated for, but there is no guarentee it will last as long..

[Gollum]

hmm indeed you're right. But sometimes it's better to buy a cheep(er) tranny every two years than to buy a full on racing tranny that CAN cost well over 10k. A T-56 costs just a little over 2k depending on where you get it and "should" last quiet some time on any track/street car regarless of HP. If you have enough hp to kill a tranny like that your car probly isn't very streetable. And by that time you've probly invested enough money into your car you can afford a bulletproof tranny.

[Guest ghostofthedevilz]

im looking for a 260 2+2 so i can put a VK45DE engine in it dose any one no where i can obtain it.

[Moridin]

but what tranny's going to handle that much torque? . . . not the 300Z tranny. The only options are going to be a domestic tranny (crappy) or a dog box (very expensive!)

 

. . . But I guess if you can afford the Titan motor' date=' you're not hurting for cash either. lol.

 

The reason I mentioned transplanting only the crank and getting the machining done was that it's a lot cheaper than buying a Titan short block. Plus the mounting points, sensors, etc. are probably going to be different

 

Kenny

http://www.rbmotoring.com[/quote']

 

D&D Performance or G-Force modified T5 or TKO500/600 with adapter plate? Put that together with an adapter plate and aftermarket shifter, and it will be one decent transmission.

[Guest Roaces]

I know this is an old thread.... but, the idea seems quite appealing. Gut reaction on the bore and stroke differences is that you could never never never stuff those pistons into the VH45DE block, 93mm bore vs 98mm, however, The idea with the heads seems rather brilliant, if they match up. I work at an auto parts store and can look up parts all I want, I'm going to see if by any super stroke of luck if the head gaskets match on the 2 engines, or between any of the SBNs (Small block nissans) (Heh... SBN....). If anyone verify if the heads would bolt up, or even with some mild machining, mate up in some way, I'd be grateful forever, of course.

[John Dixon]

Pretty sure the guys in NZ that use the engines in jet boats use 98mm bore in the VH41 block. Just looking at re-boring my VH45, so be interested if you find anything.

[Guest Battle Pope]

I just bought a '92 Q45 with the VH45 in it, and let me tell you for a 5500 pound car, it can scoot. This would be a great engine in a Z if you mate a manual up to it.

[Guest Roaces]

Some more thoughts on the project. Fel-Pro only makes gaskets for the 1st gen Q engines. They do not make gaskets for the VK56 engines. The VK 56 engine is non VVT, this means that the block will not have the reciprocal VVT cam housing. It might only be possible to stuff the Crank, Rods and Pistons from the VK56 into a VH45/VK45 block. (Woo hoo, I already have the VH block...). If this works, you could build up the 4.5 into quite a nice NA platform.

 

Dixon> Interesting.... the VH41 and 45 blocks are the same. That means the 45 block can be bored to 98 from stock 93.

Pope> Im sure you know about the project for the VH45DE tranny adaptor, by lost, if I remeber correctly. Methinks the buy in deal for that is dead and he should just give the plans up so that we can at least make our own without having to design them from scratch.

[John Dixon]

Steve Snively at peak horsepower steve@peakhp.com is also looking at making a converter plate. Think he's nearly done now

[Guest Battle Pope]

Yeah I've been thinking about trying to do a ZXTT 5-speed behind it down the road, but for now it needs maintenance and preventatives, such as the updated timing chain guides and an external tranny cooler. Shocks, Springs, etc. etc.