LS1240Z Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Is there anyone who knows where I can find websites selling custom billet parts for 240's.Parts like billet "A" arm brackets,Mustache bar,R230 diff mount,custom built control arms and CV adapters???Is there anyone making these kinds of parts?Is there a demand for them?Thanks for all the help and feedback............................... I have some ideas stewing and will be updating this post when I get some feedback from you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Modern Motorsports. Arizona Z Car. Williams Machine. Juan. Spend some time searching this site and you'll find a number of resources for your custom billet parts. BTW... there isn't an "A" arm anywhere on a 240Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1240Z Posted July 6, 2004 Author Share Posted July 6, 2004 I meant rear control arms.I got a lot of the Arizona Z stuff like the brake kit and the rear tubular control arms and the front adjustable control arms.I am not very happy with the stuff.I paid TOP dollar for the stuff and just don't like the way my car rides.The front control arms are all metal to metal.The TC rod is metal to metal.The rear control arms I got from him are different then the ones my friend got from him.My buddy is able to adjust his in more then I'm able to.I think his jig was off or something when he built mine .I got the 12 inch brake rotors kit with 4 piston calipers and want to upgrade to the 13 inch rotors with 6 piston calipers and he wants like $1200 dollars more.I think I'm the one keeping him in business.I think it would be cheaper if I went to a designer and had his cut out my own parts on his CNC.The only thing he makes is the center piece for the rotor and the adapter for the caliper.I might be able to get billet parts for late model Datsuns like the R230 Diff mount and billet front control arms with bushings build into them and lots of other custom built stuff. Would anybody be interested in parts like that you think? Modern motorsports doesnt carry anything billet last time I looked on his site.He didnt have a whole lot to offer except the 5 lug convertion and the brake kits that are cool but no custom parts like I was lookin for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I might be able to get billet parts for late model Datsuns like the R230 Diff mount and billet front control arms with bushings build into them and lots of other custom built stuff. What would be the advantage of this? It would probably be heavier than a stamped steel stock arm. It would be more flexy (due to the bushing) than a chromoly arm. Is it just for show? Chromoly with rod ends is going to be as racey as it gets, I think, so you'd be taking a step backwards with regards to ultimate performance. As to your front brakes you got me curious if there was a 7 hole 13" rotor from Coleman or someplace like that, so I did a little checking. I did find some through Coleman, part #d30-137-1300-87 (1 3/8" rotor) or d30-125-1300-87 (1.25" rotor). I am assuming that your current setup uses a 8 hole on 7" bolt circle rotor like the JSK stuff I've got. http://www.colemanracing.com Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 just don't like the way my car rides.The front control arms are all metal to metal.The TC rod is metal to metal Metal to metal is a good thing for handling and a bad thing for NVH. Dave's (Arizona Z) parts are race parts so he designed them for metal to metal (actually aluminum and delrin I think). You're sacrificing ride for handling and perofmance. As Jon mentioned above, are you building the car for show, performance, or some combination of the above? The reason I'm asking is that the "billet" term is commonly used in the hot rod world where show is more important then go. FYI... I'm not trying to be derogatory, just trying to find out what your goals are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1240Z Posted July 7, 2004 Author Share Posted July 7, 2004 I might be able to get billet parts for late model Datsuns like the R230 Diff mount and billet front control arms with bushings build into them and lots of other custom built stuff. What would be the advantage of this? It would probably be heavier than a stamped steel stock arm. It would be more flexy (due to the bushing) than a chromoly arm. Is it just for show? Chromoly with rod ends is going to be as racey as it gets, I think, so you'd be taking a step backwards with regards to ultimate performance. As to your front brakes you got me curious if there was a 7 hole 13" rotor from Coleman or someplace like that, so I did a little checking. I did find some through Coleman, part #d30-137-1300-87 (1 3/8" rotor) or d30-125-1300-87 (1.25" rotor). I am assuming that your current setup uses a 8 hole on 7" bolt circle rotor like the JSK stuff I've got. http://www.colemanracing.com Jon I don't really think there would be much advantage,I think it would ride a lot better and look a lot better,I go to the track with my car but I drive it on the street more often and the roads and freeways suck around me.My car is so rigid with metal to metal and it bounces and creaks on every bump.It makes some nasty sounds some times.The billet control arm could be engineered so it wouldn't flex and could make it real stiff with a Delrin bushing.They build aircrafts out of this material.I got the brake kit from Dave at Arizona Z,it's the 4 piston 12 1/4 rotors.The hats are 8 hole.I think instead of buying the whole kit from Arizona Z for $1200..I will just buy the calipers and the rotors them self's from wilwood and it would cost 1/3 of the price.I already have the brackets and hats. JOHNC.......I know a lot of guys are running metal to metal,that's why I bought them to.I just didn't realize how bad the ride is till I installed them.I'm looking for my 240 to ride nice,handle and look bad ass all at the same time.I know nascar run bushings and so does Formula 1.I have a designer in the middle of making this new billet control arm with recessed Delrin bushings.He should be done if a few days.Would any of you guys be interested in seeing a picture of it completed.He is just finishing up on my billet mustache bar.It's engineered to stand up to 800+HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl327 Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 At the ZCCA show I talked to a few of the guys from AZCar about that same rough riding aspect of the control arms and the mustache bar solid mounting and front diff solid mounting. Basically he said "yes my stuff rides hard hard, all my parts ride hard, they put the power down". Hes right, but on a street car sometimes you do get what you ask for. But does that stuff look good Roads are pothole infested and theres always construction in San Francisco, I wouldnt last a week with all that hard mounted stuff, but if I was racing my z alot in turns im sure it would be worth the handling and the adjustabilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 "Billet" just means at some point the material went through a cogging process to turn a short, fat lump into a longer, skinnier lump. Base material and engineering have way more to do with a part's strength than does whether or not it started life as a "billet" for what we're talking about. Not exactly a forging, and may as well start with plate (which is probably what 99% of so called billet parts are machined from anyway). The difference betweed solid "billet", AZCar, or stock control arms is going to be diddly/squat wrt handling and ride. Ride, or what most people think is ride, and NVH, is all about bushings, shocks, and the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight. Handling and braking is probably 95% tires and driver for the normal range of streetable mods- i.e. any front running ITS driver would kick your butt on a road course with a $250 suspension and stock brakes if you let him mount up his Hoosiers and some HT-9 pads. The rest is just for show. Eh, that's just what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 I'm looking for my 240 to ride nice,handle and look bad ass all at the same time. Perfect. You're building a hot rod and that's great. Machined aluminum control arms, moustache bars, and other suspension parts fit that look. I suggest you stick with polyurethane bushings over Delrin. Delrin wears fairly quickly so you'll have to replace them priodically (every couple years depending on miles driven). Poly will give you much better NVH characteristics and you won't notice a handling difference between them and Delrin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LS1240Z Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 I not knockin the Arizona Z parts.I like Dave and have no gripes except for the stiff ride.The bottom line is that the front control arms are strictly for road race application only.You just didn't know how the cars going to ride till you install it and go test it.There is just not many after market control arms set ups for early Datsuns.The stock one works but look lame.I'm having aluminum control arms made for my car with adjustable TC rod with bushings.I thought other Z guys might be interested cause nobody makes the stuff.Since he's making my control arms on the CNC,he could probably make a few more for others.Your car doesn't have to be a hot rod to have Billet aluminum on it.I'm sure the steel is heavier.I don't thing anybody should knock it until they see it.I seen his design work and looks sweet.I never seen anything like it for any Datsun.I'm turning my car almost into a show car so I guess I care about that stuff more then most.I wont be driving it like a show car that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chris240turbo Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Please feel free to PM me when you're ready to unload your old Az Zcar stuff, my car is already loud, creaky, and stinky, also not a daily driver, I'm not scared! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug71zt Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 They build aircrafts out of this material. Trust me - I know - aircraft are very, very flexible. They have to be or they would crack themselves to pieces. A Boeing 747 wing has 6 feet of deflection at the tip, from static to rotation speed at takeoff. Another tip - If you don't like high levels of NVH - don't go for 13" 6 piston racing brakes on your street Z. You will never get them up to operating temps on the street and you likely don't have enough HP to use them on the track - the 240Z weighs 2300-2600 lbs - it doesn't need 13" 6 piston brakes. 3500 lb Mustangs, Camaros, and 300zx TT's need 13 inch rotors. I've treated the AZ 11.5" kit very very badly on a short road course and it didn't fade, so why add unsprung weight to your suspension? Ultimately - It is your car and your choice - but I think that the 'custom' parts that you want are going to be very expensive and offer no change in performance from what is available 'off the shelf'. BLING BLING Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Just a suggestion on the TC rods: you might want to have a heims joint on top of a poly bushing, so that the bushing gets rid of the noise and harshness, but the heims joint allows the suspension to move freely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dot Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Delrin bushing? This one is new to me. What are they made of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Delrin is a material like polyurethane. You can get it in a variety of hardnesses, and it's what is used in the G Machine bushings (very hard Delrin in those). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 And as we found with Steve and Ian's car, Aluminum tubing on the TC ROd is a B-A-D idea. We were using some VERY THICK aluminum... Stick with steel tubing for that, because the TC rod takes a beating. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 I've been using a 3/4" rod end and swedged aluminum tubing for ~5 years on slicks. I think Mike was using 5/8" stuff. 3/4" has held up just fine for me. EDIT--My Z was my daily driver too for a long time, so I've probably got 40K street miles on those aluminum TC rods... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 As with any material, failure due to fatigue is a direct result of the stresses and strains present in the part. A stronger part = less stress = longer fatigue life. This applies to any material, but is especially important to take into account with materials that don't have a high UTS compared to their yield strength such as aluminum. When these materials fail, the failures tend to be more catastrophic (ie: breaking the part in half) as compared with steel (deformation of said part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Yup! Ours was 5/8th, but not swagged. It was 7/8th thick drilled to 5/8th bore. I have since upgraded the design, using 3/4 inch heims and 1inch .132 thick steel tubing. The stuff is VERY durable. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Oops, you're right Mike, swaged, not swedged... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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