Mikelly Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Trying to find a V8 Zcar member who lives near Glendale Arizona and who would be interested in allowing S&S headers to use their car as a test for making a NEW set of headers for the V8 Z SBC Conversion???? Not sure what the cost would be, but there are atleast a few of us who would chip in on the initial setup and build of a set for the template so S&S could get us a more "Exacting" fit for ground clearance... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 OK Men, we've been whining for years that we don't have a really good full length 1 3/4" header for SBC Z's. This is a good opportunity to fix that situation. If several of us agree to buy a set, and someone is willing to take them a car, it would be a win for everybody. The S&S 5205 is workable, but it could use several improvements to be just right. I'm in. Who else??? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim240z Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I would be all over this except I want 2" primaries.....so I guess I will start from scratch again.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I'm in if anyone steps up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 What engine are we talking, LS1 or JTR original recipe? Also any estimates on cost? I will be making an engine commitment later this year so don't want to make any promises I won't keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zone Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 what is the contact information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PROJECTRB240SX Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 My Car Is Up And Running I Can Leave It With Them For Awhile..... Its Already Passed Emisions So I'm Good To Go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PROJECTRB240SX Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 http://www.ssheaders.com/contact.htm IS WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE THEIR CURRENT LOCATION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I'd say go with at least 1-7/8" primaries at least. 1-3/4 is ok for small engines or low rpm, but really anything over 5500 or 6K begs for larger primaries. The guys running 383's or larger really beg for larger primaries. I'd like 2" also. I have S&S headers in the 1-3/4 full length. They could use a little tweaking to be "just right". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted January 7, 2005 Author Share Posted January 7, 2005 Just got off the phone with S&S and was chatting with their senior guy and he told me that he could work up something a little tighter, but wondered if it wasn't an issue with how the tranny was sitting in the car... Don't know, but he is up for a revisit of these... He has also built BIG tube headers for 240Zs with big cubes... Bottom line is they are willing to work with us... 623-847-0920 was the inside line! If we can come to an agreement on what primary to use, I'm game and JIm would be as well... I'm using a 383 with lots of potential for big cubes, and after running 10:98s on block huggers...I'd really like something with a little better flow! Oh and someone asked about the configuration... This is traditional small block chevy in the JTR setback! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 Probably as equally as important is the compatibility with angle plug heads, which is the norm these days. I had to grind 1/4 inch off the number three sparkplug electrode, on the wire end, just to get it started in the threads in my afr 220 heads. I had some clearance problem with the frame where the T/C or radius rod is on the passenger side. A torch took care of the 1/4" fitment issue. Now the collectors aren't exactly lined up for a straight shot past the powerglide trans, so right off the bat I'm going to have to do some bending right after the collector flange. So, I guess also an issue is compatibility with different transmissions. I'm going to assume that an automatic is wider than the manual trans options, so that should be a consideration as well. Just thoughts in hopes of trying to end up with a product that will be more universal. I'm in for a set of 2". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I suspect once they get the layout right, they could use any size tubes desired. Mainly, the 5205's need: # 3 tube needs moving in a little to get better steering shaft clearance. The location of the flanges on the collectors is pretty good, but they need angling down and in more. Biggie: Where the 4 tubes radius to the rear after they come together, the radius point needs moving up about an inch on the drivers side and about two inches on the pass side. The lowest point of the tubes shouldn't be any lower than the existing collector flanges. With 23.5 tires on my car, I only had about 1 1/2" ground clearance. After a few track days, I've got more now! I'm not using a kickout pan, but there's not much room for one. The tubes could be moved outward some, which would mean the collectors would need to angle in more to miss the footwells and run the pipes under the tunnel. The drivers side is close to the TC bracket, so that would have to be addressed. #2 tube is real close to the setback plate, if bigger tubes were used it might need moving to the rear some. Any more suggestions from current 5205 users? Maybe I'll go lay under my car a while and see what else I can come up with.... or, maybe I'll just have a couple of more beers...... John Edit: I've got to get to work building a bigger motor. If these other guys are needing bigger tubes, I obviously don't have enough cubic inches!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbc3 Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 I recently got my uncoated 5205's from SS and have yet to test fit the motor/headers in the car. I was planning on tweaking the headers and sending them back for coating, but if a "better version" is made, I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Yup, the number 3 tube actually hits the steering shaft on mine but not enough to bother with. The collectors need to be bent down alittle and out, I agree. I made my own mounts alot differently than JTR's so I don't have issues there. I run a double kick out 7 quart pan (both sides), no issues there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PROJECTRB240SX Posted January 9, 2005 Share Posted January 9, 2005 if anyone needs my car just let me know when and i can get it down there...... projectrb240sx@hotmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awd92gsx Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I just got an email from S&S Headers saying they are not looking for any V8 Datsun Z's for product research on because they already have headers for the application Hi Not sure who you were talking with but our design engineer says we're covered on this application with part # 5205. Thanks for the offer. Betty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psykovertible Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 mine not far off from needing headers for a test fit. way far off from running though. using msa mounts to did some measuring and with the newer MSA mounts they use the same rubber motor mount as jtr. the thickness of msa in 2" passenger and 2.25" driver, each side with a 2.75 inch setback. jtr appears to be 1.5 pass and 2.5 driver when plate and spacer combined...with a 3 inch set back. therefore JTR = 0.25 inch further back. 0.5inch lower on pass side, 0.25 inch higher on driver side (for steering shaft)....... when compared to MSA. closer than i thought.... ps.... i made guestimates using 0.25 inch as a rounded number of JTR plate thickness. they are actaully a little over that so the difference in motor height will be closer yet by a 1/16 inch casue the plate are more like 5/16 thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Funny, I was just discussing this with Mike Kelly last night but didn't know about this thread. John, thanks for that analysis of what needs to be done. I was wondering how much the horizontal section of primaries needed to be moved up. My thought was to modify the 5205 like this: 1) Make the 90 degree turn in the bunch of 4 primaries as they come straight down less (1 inch on driver's side, 2 inches on passenger's side, according to John) for more ground clearance. 2) Maybe make the turn less than 90 degrees to have them point down a bit towards the back of the car. 3) Have them use a Merge Collector (3" outlet) 4) Slip on fit setup instead of 3 bolt flange. 5) Make the ends of the primaries come out as wide as possible, to clear the widest trans (my Lakewood Bellhousing is wide, the Auto trannies are wide too). 6) Make sure they will clear the Canton 15-240 Road Race pan with the kickouts. 7) Any other tweaks to get them to not hit the steering shaft, mounts, etc. I was going to order an uncoated set with the modification (1), install and tweak to fit, send them back for any refinements, test fit, repeat until happy, then send them back to possibly be used as a new part number for us. I haven't moved on this. Primary size is a big concern. My 406 will be turning 6400 rpm max, so I know that will be a driver. But 2" may be too big. I was considering 1-3/4, or maybe 1-7/8. Too big will make it a pig . Any movement on taking a V8Z to them? I'd hope they could at least mock up the wings of the Canton pan on a stock one for this exercise, since a few of us are using that pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Pete, the biggest problem I see with these headers is the section where the four tubes come together, radius, and then go to the collector. The section form the radius to the collector is nowhere close to being level. It slopes upward from the radius to the collectors, about 1" on the D side and 2" on the P side. The collectors are nowhere near the lowest point, the lower tangent of the radius is, and there no reason for it, there's just empty space above the radius's(sp?). So I think the radius point needs moved up, but the collectors are in about the right place, for starter and oil filter clearance. When I change my oil, there's only about 1/2" clearance between the filter and the header when the oil filter clears the threads on the block. Not much room to move them up there without requiring a remote oil filter. If S&S thinks they've got V8 Z's covered, send them this: My car isn't that low. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Couple more: These are NOT the stock 5205. Based on advice from members who used these previously, either Nullbound or Andrew Bayley, I special ordered these with the collector rotated down 5 deg. Imagine if they were pointing up more! Camera batteries died. Later today I'll try and get some showing bellhousing/footwell clearance. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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