Donuts in Parking Lot = Reckless Driving Ticket

[preith]

I feel the need to vent. This is kind of a long story, but a coworker of mine recieved a $367 reckless driving ticket for doing donuts in an open snow covered parking lot. The lot turned out to be state university owned. He was ticketed by university police, who apparently have the same juristiction as a state trooper in Wisconsin; not sure how it is in other states.

 

He ended up going to court and having it reduced to something like $157 with half the points of original, which is still $157 too much.

 

Now I personally have come close to being ticketed, but never have. But I have known others who have been givin a hard time as well.

 

The whole thing just really steams me up. Who are they affecting, or causing danger to? I think everyone at one point should go screw around in an open snow covered parking lot. It only makes one a better driver in the snow. There are many valuble lessons that can be learned, such as the brakes are NOT your friend.

[GrayZee]

The only problem I can see with it is if there are some light posts or parking curbs buried under the snow. If so he could have caused damage to those (although I'm sure the curbs would have done alot more damage to his car if he had hit them) The university cops sound like a bunch of pricks if you ask me, but in the end if he was on university property I guess they can ticket him if they want. I think a better way of dealing with it would have been to go talk to him and tell him that he was not welcome in the parking lot and simply tell him to leave.

[RB26powered74zcar]

hmm... I don't quite see it the way you do....

 

What if.... is the big question. There are a lot of what ifs that can apply to doing that.

Mostly its, what if somehow, for some reason the donut'ee got hurt doing that, and decides to sue sue sue..... who's the looser then? That happens way to often these days.

 

I belive in having a good time, and god knows I've dome my share of spinning, but if you get caught.... oh well, its time to pay up....

 

I'm not trying to start a war here, just my take on the subject....

[auxilary]

my best friend's little brother did that... right in front of a cop. got ticketed for reckless driving, had to go to court. I told him to get a lawyer asap. He didn't.

 

He got a fine for $250 and 2 point misdemeanor infraction on his license, which means it'll stick to his record for 7 years instead of 3, and he can't take traffic school for it

[preith]

Mostly its' date=' what if somehow, for some reason the donut'ee got hurt doing that, and decides to sue sue sue..... who's the looser then? That happens way to often these days.

 

I'm not trying to start a war here, just my take on the subject.... [/quote']

 

That's a good point. It does seem lawsuits are all too common, and there are many "what ifs", which could be adressed at the scene, but I agree with Grayzee, a simple "please leave" would be more appropriate.

 

I suppose a better solution to learning bad driving conditions would be a structured hands on autocross type course, which there I believe are some out there, but maybe a more agressive marketing towards it or something.

[Pop N Wood]

He had to have known it was illegal when he started doing it. No sense complaining when you get caught. Pay the ticket and play the game better next time. He didn't get a ticket for doing donuts. He got a ticket for being dumb enough to do them in front of a cop.

 

Laws are written for the dumbest among us. What if some 17 year old tries the same thing. But instead of an empty lot he does it in a crowded Wendy's lot? Or he hits a curb he couldn't see, damages Dad's car and bounces his girlfriend's head off the window in the process? Who gets sued in that case?

 

I guess the law makers can't see any reason to allow it, so why not just take the safe route and make a law against it?

 

Having said all that I do a donut coming into my driveway every time it snows.

[datsunlover]

I go out to a parking lot here behind a little strip mall and do doughnuts, drifts, ect. Lots of fun after fresh snow, as there is a big wide open flat section, just paved recently. I'd come racing from one end, get up to about 60K and cranks the wheel.. drift, spin out, ect.

There used to be a police station right beside this place (It was buldozed and moved across town last year) and one day, while I was spining around back there after mall hours, a cop rolled it. I saw him and stoped right away thinking 'Oh crap.. I'm in trouble now..' The cop drove up to my car and rolled his window down. "How you doing tonite? Havin some fun eh?"

I said "yah, well I wanted to see how my truck handels now, I got two new snow tires on the back.."

The cop smiled and said " Well, thats good.. Better to do that here than out on the road with other people around you. Hows it going? "

I told him it was pretty good.. difrent than last year (when I had crapy tires) but still a 2wd truck, so you know..

 

The cop smiled and drove away..

[Guest comeandzpa]

I have mixed feelings about this. I feel like it is invaluable to have some experience with your vehicle in the snow. Obviously I'm not about to go wrecklessly plowing about through town trying to learn how my car drives in the snow, and I'd rather not find out when I'm spinning out trying to get home from work or something. So I feel like an open parking lot is a perfect place to learn....as long as it's really an open, empty parking lot. If there are no cars around, no poles, curbs, or barriers, and there is no chance of you hitting anything, I don't see why it's a problem. If a cop spots you, I can understand if he tells you to move along. However, with such a low risk of damage or injury, I don't think it's fair to ticket you without fair warning.

 

On the other hand, its still not completely safe, no matter what's around you. Although I'm sure it's damn near impossible, you could probably flip/roll the car, especially if you're in a top-heavy truck/van/suv. I feel that as long as you're being intelligent about things, it shouldn't be a problem. Of course everything here is a problem when it comes to the local PD. I was once stopped while walking around town with my friends because it was suspicious for us to be outside walking on a summer night. Granted it was 1 AM...but we weren't being loud, we weren't causing problems, we were just walking home from the local Sheetz. Guess walking is now against the law too...they actually tried to give us a citation but decided against it in the long run. I just feel like there are bigger battles to fight...

[2126]

Here in SoCal we have a real problem.....can't find those snow covered parking lots very often! However, there seem to be an abundance of police officers to catch you if and when you do find one.

[waynekarnes]

on most private properties, the cops have no say so, unless the owner complains.

 

however, many parking lots have signs stating ALL local and state vehicle regulations enforced, meaning that any and all police can ticket a driver for any violation.

 

as far as california goes, all state college campuses are regulated by ALL the california vehicle codes and regulations, they are considered state property. this also applies to most of the county junior college campuses as well.

 

being as your friend was on state owned property (?) or at least state regulated property, he was subject to state law. as far as the J.P.O. was concerned, i'm sure he felt, parking lot or the middle of the intersection of a downtown street, all the same to him, his dick got big and your friend got a ticket for being stupid on the J.P.O.'s watch.

 

 

remember, check for signs advising that all laws are enforced. they may just be a plaque glued on the asphalt, like those right to pass may be revoked at anytime, plates one finds in mall parking lots.

 

plus, get in and get out, don't stay and make a day of it.

 

back in 73, my younger brother's 2 dr 55 chevy, could pull the left front off the ground a good 3 inches and get daylight under the right. about 11pm, across the street from the texaco, where we worked, a bunch of us were messing with the fuel injection on my buddy's 60 impala ( 13 sec 1/4 mi car ), there was a supermarket, typical anchor market with several mom and pop businesses, all closed but the liquor store. my brother, rather than walk 1/2 a block takes his 55. he buys 6 bottles of pepsi, gets in the 55, backs out of the stall, puts it in 1st and nails it, smoke and sparks. heads across the big empty parking lot, grabs 2nd, so much smoke we can't see the liquor store anymore.

 

suddenly, lights and sirens, unmarked los gatos cop car. my brother shuts it down. we watch him get out of the 55, cop and my brother meet walking towards each other about by the 55's back bumper. cop slaps black ticket book down on trunk of the 55.

 

words are exchanged, cop pointing at the ground behind the 55, pointing at all the smoke still drifting in the air. stern finger waving by the cop at my brother. my brother points at a house across the orchard, next to the parking lot. cop continues shaking his finger, picks up black book, walks back to his car, throws his book through the open driver's window, more finger wagging, finally gets in his cop car, turns off the flashing lights, drops it in drive and does a "man am i pissed about something" burn out of a U turn headed for the street, down the road he went.

 

my brother, motors back to the texaco. ask him what happened. my brother says cop wanted to write him for exhibition of speed. my brother reminded him was private property, no signs, no way. cop says we have complaints about YOU from the property owner, so i can write you a ticket.

 

my brother pointed at the house in the orchard, told the cop, really ??? see that house ??? that's Art Downing's house, he owns this shopping center. we just changed the oil in his truck about 20 minutes ago, he was asking me how more power i think the new cam made, and joking with me about how long i thought the new mickey thompson indy 500's were gonna last me .... shall we go see what he has to say, i'm sure he's still awake !

 

private property vs. public ... rookie cop vs. seasoned cop ... getting caught vs. getting away with it ...

 

might be a chicken S ticket, but your friend made a decision to do what he did, he got caught, J.P.O has a hard on for these kind of things, his pet peeve, instead of a warning, wrote a ticket.

 

i agree, wasn't in the middle of town on a busy street, was a deserted parking lot, cop could have written unsafe driving, or something else, judge could have reduced it to an infraction, instead of treating it the same as if the crime had been commited in the middle of the county fair with school children everywhere.

 

what you may not know, is the college may have an issue with kids using the parking lot for just what your friend did, they've told their J.P.O.s to bust everyone they catch being stupid in the parking lots. the judge is also aware of this, makes an example of your friend. word gets out, soon people know it's gonna cost you big time to be stupid in the college parking lot.

 

personally, i get no thrill out of tearing up a good machine doing donuts. how much rubber one lays or smoke one makes, means no traction and a waste of horsepower, that could be better used for acceleration, but to each their own ( bro's 55, posi, ladder bars, ect, running N-50/15's, just big horsepower and 4:56 gears ).

 

still, your friend played the game and lost. on the score board, cop one, friend zero. that said, i think, if as you say, empty lot, no one around, the judge should have reduced it to a one point ticket, said no traffic school, and fined your friend's butt. again, as i said earlier ... the college has probably had its fill of people screwing around in the parking lots, hitting trash cans, lamp posts, driving across lawns and wants it stopped.

 

my 89 cents,

 

wayne

[baddriver]

Should have gotten a lawyer.

 

In most cases wreckless driving requires that a person be in danger as a result of the driving. If there were no people around in the parking lot, then no people were in danger, therefor the action was not wreckless.

 

Some small town cops tried to pin wreckless driving on me when I spun my tires out of a school parking lot (many years ago) and I hired a lawyer. The lawyer got the charge reduced to failure to maintain control, a much lesser charge. It sounds like this is the same type of thing. I remember the fact that no people were around when I did it was an important point towards getting the charges reduced.

 

No way did it meet the definition for wreckless driving, but it was failure to maintain control. Maybe that is why your friend got the charge reduced. But if he pled guilty to wreckless driving, he'll be paying for it in insurance for the next 3-5 years.

[Guest tony78_280z]

I think everyone at one point should go screw around in an open snow covered parking lot. It only makes one a better driver in the snow.

I lived in Wisconsin, and I know what you are talking about. Here in Illinois, when we get a little snow people think I'm crazy when I go out driving in it. But I KNOW HOW TO DRIVE IN THE SNOW because I learned in Wisconsin, and part of that is going into an empty lot and doing donuts and jerking the wheel and spinning around. You gotta do all the crazy stuff that MIGHT happen on the road in a controled and safe environment. I remember when my mom took me to the empty lot on the first snow when I was 15 and she said, "ok, go crazy." And I will do the same for my children.

 

I think some cops need to practice "no harm no foul". Even if a guy was simply burning out and "whippin shitties" In an empty lot, who cares? If you drive by some kids on the street and they stare slack jawed at your ride you owe them a little tire squeel just for fun of it and to brighten their day.

[sjhafa]

Im probably going to open Pandoras box here, but here it goes anyway. From the police officers perspective. Haven written my fair share of citations as a Traffic Officer on a motorcycle for 15 years. I have yet to see it all, but have come close, that is untill I go to work tomorrow. The "what if" is always the key. The kid last week who was looking at himself do hole shots in the mirror windows at the local Target store didn't plan on entering the front doors and driving 75' into the store. He hit the Nitros by "accident". The store was brand new and noone was hurt. More common is the attitude of the offender. 99.9 % of the time its the persons mouth that gets them into ticket land. Im all for having fun but there is a time and a place. I don't think a university campus is probably the best place to learn drifting. Save it for the warehouse parking lot on Sundays. I received my fair share of citations in my youth and I deserved everyone I got. Was I mad? yep, was it my fault? yep. Here is my advice. If you get pulled over for doing the unsafe start or get caught doing 25 over ( I give 21 untill I stop someone) admit it! The first thing out of his mouth will probably be.....do you know why I pulled you over? if you say uhhh nooo, you have just pi$$ed him off and your screwed. I let folks go if the admit it with humor and honisty. Also like the other threads mentioned it's a law suit happy world out there and we have all put a lot of time and money into our toy's, our homes and our family just to loose it all to one stupid moment. I have worked to many fatal accidents for just plain stupidity. So if your going to drive it like you stole it, find a suitable place and have at it, but keep your sanity and know your limitations. Ok im done, be kind when you let me have it here, remember In the winter I spend 8 hours driving a front wheel drive Chevy Impala with a V6. Be safe

[Tim240z]

..........In the winter I spend 8 hours driving a front wheel drive Chevy Impala with a V6. Be safe

My condolances!!

[1 tuff z]

for nearly 25 or so years now i've been going to the local parking lots late at night once we've had our first good snow-especially if i haven't driven that car in the snow yet. it gives me the opportunity to shake down the handling of the particular car as well as renew my winter driving skills. who knew to call it drifting? i just used to try to hang out the tail as long as possible without spinning out! never been stopped, but if i were i'd simply fess up as to what & why i was doing it. when my kids are old enough, i'll teach them as well. probably has something to do with why i've not had any "wreck problems". i also will test the driving surface almost every time i'm out-braking, cornering, etc.-just in case that moron pulls out in front, stops short or whatever!

[midnightzxt]

best excuse for donuts.. i was practicing my einter driving and i thought this parking lot would be safer than the road!

[Pop N Wood]

I didn't want to admit it, but I once got pulled over by no less than a half dozen park police for weaving in and out of cones in a parking lot being set up for a concert. I saw the convoy of cops at least a half mile behind me, and pulled over to let them catch up. When the cops got to me, they asked me if I knew how to drive in a parking lot. I told them "I would like to think I do, but then I guess we wouldn't be having the conversation if I did."

 

They just told me that here in Maryland we don't drive that way (the Z still had California plates from a recent move) and let me go.

 

Something to be said for being a polite middle aged white guy.

 

Also I hate it when cops ask if you know why they pulled you over. Makes me feel like a 6 year old talking to my dad.

[waynekarnes]

any one listen to public radio ... Car Talk with Click and Clack the Tappet Brothers .. ???

 

last sunday, a caller asked .. what does turn into a skid mean ??? caller said, if one does that ... one will end up in a spin ... basically the jest of the reply was ... steer which ever way the rear of the car wants to go, regain control of the car ...

 

BUT >>>> they also suggested ....when it starts to snow, finding a large EMPTY parking lot and practicing your stops and starts ...

 

spin the tires pulling out ... see whether the car pulls left or right ...

 

hit the brakes hard, lock up the wheels, again ... does it pull left or right ...

 

again stressing a large EMPTY parking lot ... do a little slolam racing, at a safe speed, maybe under 15, 20 mph ... swear a bit ... see how the car handles ... where it drifts, how long it takes to stop, where you lose control ...

 

better to learn in a parking lot than on the road the 1st time one loses control ...

 

they also added ...

 

too bad, that there are so few empty parking lots to do that in now. if more people were to do this, there'd be less cars upside down in a ditch on the 1st day it snows ... they also backed that statement up, saying ...

 

of course if the morons slowed down, most of em wouldn't be on their roofs ...

 

... again doing donuts was kid stuff ... a slap on the wrists and get the F out of here would have been my response ( if i were an officer of the court ) ... again who knows whether the school had issues with idiots in their parking lots and asked to ticket all fools.

 

my thoughts : maybe in areas where it snows, the city oughta open up a large lot and at one's own risk, have people, especially inexperienced drivers and those from areas where they don't get snow, get out there in their cars and do some slipping and sliding ...

 

experienced officers giving drivers pointers ... maybe a handout ... a 20 minute orientation ... and then off to the parking lot ... hit the slush, ice and snow ... a 10 buck fee ??? parents send the kids off to snow preparation day ??? a discount on insurance for a days course at 50 bucks a head ???

 

if you live in a snow state ... contact your local police chief, see if the department might go for it ...

 

your friend that got the ticket, have him contact the judge, see what the judge thinks of it ... your friend may have been screwing around, but may have also been testing the handling of his car in the ice and snow ... better to stress the training aspect and police involvement in improving local driver's abilities, than trying to say your friend was "practicing" ....

 

a thought ....