944 vs 240z

[rudypoochris]

Okay this is a realtively vague question and obviously results are going to be biased. But, in terms of handeling is the porche 944 or the 240z superior in stock form? and overall?

 

please tell why try not to be too biased

[preith]

I knew a guy who had a bone stock 924 and he said it was a better handler than his also bone stock '76 Z.

[Sparks280zt]

hi, i have owned and driven both. The 944 is highly superior to a 240 in handling if the cars are in bone stock form. But as you can see I have sold my 944 to build a Z.....hope that tells you something.

[JMortensen]

This might piss a few people off but in STOCK form a Z handles pretty poorly. A 944 handles pretty good out of the box. I'd give it to the 944. In stock form. Take them both to the nth degree and I think its REALLY close. REALLY close.

 

My basis for this is that I've owned and raced Z's for more than 10 years, and I was a Porsche mechanic for a couple years. I've been to POC races, and I've seen a few (very few--like 2 or 3) 944T's that turn lap times WAY lower than I was able to turn, seen them beat factory Porsche Cup 911's and wacky 600 hp 911 Turbos with the giant double carbon fiber wing in the back, etc. But then I think the ROD probably would have taken most of those cars out too.

[Scottie-GNZ]

This might piss a few people off but in STOCK form a Z handles pretty poorly.

Whooo....you're in deep trouble now!! But I got your back because I agree with you. As much as Z fanatics will hate to admit it, the stock Z was a breakthrough in its day but is a slug compared to some mid-late 80s cars and most modern "sports cars". I seem to recall the 944 being lauded my many automotive rags as the "Best Handling Car" in comparison tests. A well-prepped hybridZ? Well that's another story but at JM said, a well-prepped 944T is one awesome piece of equipment.

[mark]

I do track days with a friend who has a well set up street driven 944T. He is a VERY good driver. Most days we run neck and neck. I have the horse power in the straights and he can pull me in the turns. My car is very not stock lt-1 t-56 tons of cash ect. My friend just installed a bigger turbo and is ready to go back to the track. I bet he takes me now.

 

Mark

[johnc]

Out of the box the 944 is a better handling and braking car then the 240. But, in SCCA ITS (the closest "stock" road racing comparison) the 2 valve Porsche 944 has to run 300lbs more then the ITS 240Z and I don't think the 2.5L engine can make as much power as the 2.4L Nissan L6. So, the 240Z consistently beats the 944. Handling for both cars is about the same and braking is similar for a 30 minute race.

[Guest bastaad525]

I used to think my '72 240, with the Eibach springs and Tokico shocks (and nothing else), was a really great handling car... just based on comparison to other cars I've owned, and thinking that the eibach/tokico combo is just that good.... I felt like it just had to be practically race ready.

 

Then I bought a bone stock '91 Sentra SE-R, and quickly had things put into perspective for me. Put shortly, the Sentra BLOWS my Z out of the water in all the ways I've ever had the balls to test it.

 

The Sentra, by the way, is the newest car I've ever owned or driven more than once. Well no... that's not true. I have also driven my wife's '94 Geo Prizm LSi (basically a rebadged Corolla)... and not trying to be funny, but even it feels much more solid and safe than my 240 does, when pushed hard in turns.

 

So I dont feel the 240 is such a great handling car any more.....

[patzky1]

Thoughts of rollcages and subframe connecters are dancing through my head now.... seems the only way to make our flexy little cars as tight as their modern counterparts. I have the poly bushings, stiffer springs, and requisite shocks out of the way, but the car is still slightly "wobbly" when I hit a bump during a turn. It IS a whole lot better than it used to be though.

 

Been in a stock 944T one time and WAS impressed by its handling stock. Nice little cars, but too much $$ to justify it whereas you can have a Z that does the same and work on it yourself.

 

Pat

[Sparks280zt]

The bad thing of the 944 is cost on some on the repairs, depending on what year you get, i have heard horror stories of timing belts costing $1500 to get put on. I sold my 944t because the power steering pump went out and a bolt was stripped that held the pump in, and the quote to get it fixed was $1800. So i sold it broke and lost like $400 on the car.

[johnc]

Parts for the 944 can be very expensive, but as with anything automotive, junk yard prices are pretty cheap. NASA, POC, and PCA run a Spec944 series for the 83 through 88 2V 2.5L cars. A car can be bought and built for $12,000 and raced for a couple seasons with no more expenses then fluids, tires, and entry fees. The driveline, suspension, and brakes are strong and last long if maintenance is kept up. A junkyard engine is $600 and will last at least a couple seasons of racing.

 

And these 944s (unlike the turbos) are pretty easy to work on.

[Dead Roman]

I knew a guy who had a bone stock 924 and he said it was a better handler than his also bone stock '76 Z.

 

as far as im concerned the 924 is PIG and slow as dirt.

[JMortensen]

The bad thing of the 944 is cost on some on the repairs, depending on what year you get, i have heard horror stories of timing belts costing $1500 to get put on. I sold my 944t because the power steering pump went out and a bolt was stripped that held the pump in, and the quote to get it fixed was $1800. So i sold it broke and lost like $400 on the car.

944 timing belts require a special tool that costs $500 or so (or at least it used to). I want to say that the job was a 6 or 8 hour job by the book time. If you don't get the tension right they howl.

 

Some other problems: Power steering is a CONSTANT problem. The shop I worked for used to install the later reservoir lines in them because IIRC the routing of the line next to the exhaust was part of the problem. We also used to do the BG power steering flush on EVERY 944 that came in. The power steering fluid leaks straight onto the swaybar bushings too, so those are almost always bad too. Clutch changes are a PITA. Little things like changing the hood struts tend to end with broken windshields. Need motor mounts? $$$. Supposedly you need to replace the aluminum front control arms to fix a bad ball joint, but we figured out which ball joint fit into the 944 arm. That was a big $$$ saver.

[rudypoochris]

bastaad525 have you done the bump steer mods to your 240z's? maybe this coupled with the eibach and tokico's might own? are those eibach progressive? Also remember ur comparing a front wheel drive car to a rear wheel.... also did you change bushings (stock ones are probably all cracked by now).

 

THis leads me to a general question acctually, has any one at all done the bumbsteer mod, and is there any noticeable effect?

[Sparks280zt]

I beleive JohnC knows everthing about bump steer....I heard he had some good posts on that topic

[JMortensen]

Search the bumpsteer thing. Been talked about over and over and over and over...

[Guest KEINoze]

The 240Z often seems slower around a corner because it takes much more work to drive fast compared to other cars. You'd be surprised how much you can keep up with modern cars if you brake and modulate the throttle properly. Modern cars are often "buffered" with computers or "fool proof" engineering that takes effort away from the driver.

 

FWD cars seem faster around a corner because it's just so easy to drive. When you make a mistake on a FWD car, the worst that can happen is understeer. In a 240Z, you hestitate to take it to the limit because the worst that can happen is spinning out of control. LOL

This is why AWD cars tend to be much faster around a track in the hands of an amature driver.

 

A stock 240Z wasn't much of a performer by today's standards. The 240Z is so mod friendly that it's obvious Nissan designed it to be modified with aftermarket parts.

 

Sorry, but I can't really comment on a 944. Haven't driven one because I tend to be anti-Porsche.

[johnc]

When you make a mistake on a FWD car, the worst that can happen is understeer.

 

I guess that 95 mph lift throttle spin in turn 9 at WSIR in my 2000 Contour SVT was understeer?

[v80z]

the 944 or 944t compared to a 1st gen z is apples and oranges. The 944 with the rear transaxle is just a different animal all together. Posted my impressions earlier

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=96274&highlight=13th

[Guest bastaad525]

you know... I'm really no expert on this sorta thing, but I do want to say, that to me, at least, the Sentra feels actually very balanced, maybe almost neutral. I've taken it up a curvy mountain road close to me, several times, and keep pushing it harder and harder... I have yet to really encounter any understeer, and it does seem like I could get it to rotate if I tried... I know when I take turns on the hairy edge of too fast, I hear squealing from the rear, and I can feel the tail trying to push out. When I push hard thru turns the car seems to perfectly follow the angle fo the front wheels.

 

I know it's probably hard to believe, but really it doesn't feel like a front drive car.. I mean it feels different from the Z, for sure, but it also feels very different from my wife's Geo as well. Maybe someone who's actually had one of these on a track and knows better how to describe or quantify this sort of thing can back me up on this? Or is it just my inexperience making it seem much better than it is?