cribbj Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 Hi all, just joined the forum a few days ago and am interested in doing a 250 GTO project. I'm an older guy (55) and know very little about the Z car or chassis, but currently have two modified Supra's in my stable, one or both of which will probably be sold to make room for the GTO project. First choice for power will be the V12 BMW motor, with 2nd choice being the aluminum Lexus V8. The tranny is up in the air, but will probably be a Tremec or Getrag. I've had some preliminary conversations with Tom McBurnie of Thunder Ranch on his kit, and a shop he recommended in Prescott, AZ to do the work. I would appreciate the list's recommendations on not only the best kits, but also for shops or individuals that could turnkey the project for me. I expect to do "some" work on the car, but it would be engine related, not body, chassis or fitment. I'm looking forward to learning from what others have done with the 250 GTO, and thanks in advance for your input. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y-not Posted April 16, 2005 Share Posted April 16, 2005 John, I am just finishing up my McBurnie 250 GTO. I went with a 350 HP Ford 5.0 and Tremec TKO II trans. The car will be at Knott's Berry Farm next weekend for the kit car show. If you are really serious about a kit car, this show is the largest kit car show on the west coast. I live about 25 miles from the Vintage restoration shop in Prescott Valley that builds nice cars. His email is Ferrari@theriver.com. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Go with the V12!! There are two here using the BMW and one with a Jag and soon enough I'll be joining the BMW crew! So there's plenty of support no matter what you choose. From what I'm hearing from chelle, the T-56 trans is basically bolt up with the exception of the bellhousing which has to be customized. Look up my thread, "V12 vs V8" for more info about that. Sorry I cant help with the rest, but Good Luck! and Welcome to the Club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabo Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 Look into ScorpionZcars.com. I am building one myself and I am very happy with the quality of the product and the service. It is ALL hand laid. It is the only one that offers the original trunk style. He does no advertising and yet sells alot of kits because of the quality. I have built several kits and have some experience doing this type of stuff. Search this site for others who have had experience with Tom. Good luck on your project and it is nice to see another older builder, I am 58. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y-not Posted April 17, 2005 Share Posted April 17, 2005 I am 58 also. Anyone going to Knott's next weekend? I'll be there with my new Ford powered 250 GTO. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cribbj Posted April 17, 2005 Author Share Posted April 17, 2005 Bill, Cabo & Chewievette, thanks for the welcome! I see there are several M70 motors on eBay atm, including one with a broken left hand distributor for only $400, however reserve hasn't been met yet on this one. I'm tempted to spring for one of these, just to learn more about the motor. Any caveats about these motors in general, or using them for the 250 GTO project? I know BMW were plagued with Nikasil problems years ago, but I think the Nikasil problems were confined to the 4's & 6's, as the V12 is already an Alusil block? My intentions would be to pull off the OEM intake system, fabricate custom manifolds and put on either Jenvey or TWMInduction ITB's. A 12 cylinder motor going into a 250 GTO replicar just has to have ITB's and air horns I spent a number of years working for Caterpillar and Cooper Industries in new engine development, so I've got a soft spot for gaseous fuels, and I would like to try and incorporate an LPG SFI type fuel system into this project. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabo Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 y-not I will be there as well. I fly down every year from Washington State. I will look for you what color is your car? It should not be too hard to find you. After you weed through the Factory Five Cobras the show gets fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y-not Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Cabo, I had my Factory Five at Knott's several times, it now lives in Hawaii. I'll actually be coming with the Arizona Cobras, of which I am one of the origional members. Look for a YELLOW! Ferrari with a Edelbrock equiped Ford 5.0. See you there, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 My intentions would be to pull off the OEM intake system' date=' fabricate custom manifolds and put on either Jenvey or TWMInduction ITB's. A 12 cylinder motor going into a 250 GTO replicar just has to have ITB's and air horns [/quote'] :D I totally agree! Why not have those 12 velocity stacks sitting up like the original engine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 These guys are a good place to start for custom FI system. http://www.redlineweber.com/html/throttle_bodies/Throttle%20bodies_side_mount.htm There are some great people here who can offer you lots of good advise on doing this stuff. I'll be happy to answer whar I can as well Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cribbj Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 Thanks Chelle - I see you're doing the BMW motor also. What are your plans for an EMS, or are you going with Webers? Do you happen to know if the intake port pattern and studs match any of the existing 6 cylinder BMW heads and/or if it matches any of the Weber mounting dimensions? That would be a little bit of good luck..... Best, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Thanks Chelle - I see you're doing the BMW motor also. What are your plans for an EMS' date=' or are you going with Webers? Do you happen to know if the intake port pattern and studs match any of the existing 6 cylinder BMW heads and/or if it matches any of the Weber mounting dimensions? That would be a little bit of good luck..... Best, John[/quote'] John, to start we are going to use the stock injection with aftermarket computer. The redline stuff that looks like webers will require casting a new intake. We haven't settled on that yet. Also Jay Esterer is working on some alternative injection systems. It seems to me I read that the heads were same bolt pattern as some other BMW 6 cyl, but not sure. The intake "gaskets" are kinda insane and not really gaskets so much as coated mounting adapters. Each gasket covers 3 cylinders and is about 1 1/2" thick. If I come up with an intake design I will most certainly be willing to offer it to others as well Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cribbj Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 I too am looking at aftermarket EMS's. I currently run an AEM on my Supra, and a pair of those on this V12 would work out very nicely. Only downside of the AEM is that (at least for the Supra) it is only offered in waste spark mode for the ignition. I'm "told" there's a possibility it can be modified for direct fire, and am currently investigating that with the AEM factory. On the fuel side, it's very capable and can do full sequential injection for up to 10 high impedance injectors. Which EMS are you planning to use? A single 12 channel, or a pair of six cylinder units? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Well I have to admit my skills are a little behing with regard to the engine computers.. my friend Kim set up a megasquirt for the engine but I've been looking at a unit made by http://www.efitechnology.com/ problem is their system is hyper expensive Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cribbj Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 I was hoping the megasquirt would work, but after checking it out, it uses batch fire mode for the injectors, and I'd prefer true sequential mode which the AEM has. "If" the AEM can be modified to offer direct fire ignition, then for $2500 or less you could have a complete 12 cylinder EMS with sequential injection, and direct fire ignition. I just don't know for sure whether two standalone six cylinder ECU's will work, however I can't think of a logical reason why they wouldn't, and in fact this is nearly the way I did it around 20 years ago at Cooper when we were fooling around with the first EMS' for our 12 cylinder industrial engines. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelle Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Wow John, you're way ahead of me on the tech side of the EFI stuff. I defer to my friend Kim on most of the electronics. Will have to get her in on this thread.. Will talk soon Chelle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHO-Z Posted April 18, 2005 Share Posted April 18, 2005 Hi Y-NOT I am planning on going to the kit car show on Sat. I will definetly come by and check out your GTO. See you there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cribbj Posted April 18, 2005 Author Share Posted April 18, 2005 I've just heard back from AEM and they apparently will have an 8 channel direct fire EMS available sometime in 2006, however if their development program for this one is similar to the original, it will probably be "very" late 2006 or sometime in 2007 before evaluation units are available for their favorite tuners. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
y-not Posted April 25, 2005 Share Posted April 25, 2005 Sunday morning was very soggy at the AHA Knott's show. They started the awards at 10:00 AM. I got a second place in a 2 car class...LAST Place! Loaded the car on the trailer, and was waiting to see how some of my friends made out when the called my name for the Past President's Choice trophy! This is about as close to best of show that I'll ever get in a 250 car show. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staledale Posted April 26, 2005 Share Posted April 26, 2005 Congratulations on winning the Past President's Choice trophy.. Hey second place is still good, don't tell anyone there were only two cars in that class. Hope you got plenty of pictures. See where you had a FFR Cobra. I just fired the one I'm building today. My first time with EFI, not that bad once you do it. Hope to see pics of your car soon. Staledale Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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