OKay Guys: Help me decide which 6 to put in my car!!

[240hoke]

Hey everybody,

 

The time has come when I need ot start deciding what motor is going in my car and start putting everything together. Supension work is done for hte most part as is my chassis work, I should be finishing body work within a month.

 

Anyway, my goal for the car is 450hp, and I want to do this with a straight six. Here are my options that I like:

 

Built L28 - (same motor I had in my 260 but with forged internals and a gt35/40 turbo) + microtech engine managment + larger injectors + tons of boost

 

RB25det - microtech engine managment + larger turbo + injectors

 

7mgte - Dont know much about this motor but I have seen a couple swaps on this board and loved them, kudos to clifton.

 

1jzgtte - Dont know much about this motor either but looks like another nice option.

 

Lemme know what you guys think, all motors would basically cost the same so its all about: reliablity, and overall power potential

 

Heres my website:

http://www.geocities.com/projectzt

[violacleff]

What is the going price for a 1jz? I'm not positive that an rb25 can do 450 reliably for that long from what i've read on stock block. How strong is the 1jz? I would personally go Rb25 because I like how that motor looks in engine bay over a 7m, and by now a lot of people have done it and documented it. Has anyone even done 1jz yet? From what I've seen though, the 7m seems to have an extremely stout bottom end stock block. Although I love the L motor, it has the weakest of manual tranny options which makes me wish I had gone Rb25. In addition, I've only heard of 3-4 people on this site who have even achieved 450whp in contrast to the many who have achieved it with the other setups. Just my .02

[fl327]

7mgte, hands down. You have more parts availability than l28et, xflow head, twin cams 24 valves and they can go just as cheap as l28et. only drawback to me is it doesnt bolt right in. I can get the motor trans ecu and wiring combo for 700.00 with low miles, price is right.

 

1jz a close second, just because i know where to get them for 1400.00

because they dont sell so much, maybe its because once you do the headgasket and arp bolt fix to the 7m, you can still make tons of power.

 

L28et is my pick for moderate hp levels and minimal expenditures, Im pretty cheap and get a lot of driveline parts from the junkyard, and my last trips to the junkyards have seen too many L series6 powered cars with transmissions marked already with the infamous yellow jy pen, which means the trans is already a jy special reincarnated in a different car. Ive pulled off l28et complete swaps for 200.00 and made money by selling off the t5 trans. If I was looking for under 300hp this is my pick, yes its easy enough to get more than 300hp with more bolt ons, but at 13psi and a minimal amount of bolt ons I kicked tons of a55 with the 200.00 conversion ( which is what I paid for an entire running car btw). This is an extremely cheap conversion sometimes, but I would never expect to do another one for 200.00, I got lucky with that one.

 

Me, I think imma drop 2 cylinders more and go with that sr20det, its easy to work on and has enough interchange with its NA cousin in the United states for me to feel comfortable with it. My old turbo car was a ball at around 240hp, I would love to have 250rwhp with an engine that sits behind the crossmember all nice and tidy like the sr. There I said it.

[Sparky]

Hey Austin,

 

I personally like all of them, each have their good points, each have their bad. Personally, I love the RB engines, BUT if i was a younger person(which i happen to be) and if I didnt have a kick as highpaying job (which I dont have yet) then I would avoid anything that wasn't available in the states. The 1Jz might still be an option because of its sister engine being available in the lexus and toyota cars. I'm not sure what all is shared amongst them, so I cannot help you there. Which one is more common(or had more production) the 7m or 1jz? that might be a determining factor. I know you like to drive your cars, and you do have a daily driver so your not Reliant on the Zed, BUT do you want to wait for ever to get parts? and then pay more than usual? what's the cost on the RB's now a days? The last rumor I heard was that supplies are now drying up and the market prices are starting to reflect that. I could be very wrong though as I don't have any RB experience, merely hearsay and conjecture.

 

are you ditching the SDS? Can I ask why, and how much you want for it 8)!

 

I love the idea of a 1JZ, or RB powered Z, and would probably lean toward the 1JZ. Have you looked into buying a NA 2JZ and building it for boost? that might be a cheaper option in the long run......maybe?

[Metro]

I'm thinking the same thing you are. I've pretty much ruled out the RBs because the price has been inflated by everyone doing the 240sx swap. $2500+ for a rb25det? no thanks.

 

From what I've read on this site, 450hp on the l28et is asking a lot, while it seems to be common for the other motors to do that and more.

 

I've read a lot of good things about the 7m-gte (take Clifton's Z for example) but it has issues. One of the probs with that motor is that the engine has a notoriously bad headgasket design. So most people get the block machined so they can use a metal headgasket. From what I've read on supra forums, there's also a problem with rod knock, so take that into consideration as well.

 

Also, I think past 300-350hp you have also have to go piggy-back fuel system which gets messy. Meqasquirt is an option, but there's not many ppl running it and since the motor uses coilpacks and no dizzy, that gets kind of messy as well. I don't know much about any other management systems because they're $$.

 

Recently I've been looking into the 1jz-gte, which runs around $1200-1600 for a complete engine and makes around 280hp stock on 2 small twins. I haven't come across many downsides to this motor and it's really starting to sound good. But I haven't done extensive research yet.

 

So as it stands now for me, I'm leaning towards the 1jz-gte because it matches my goals.

[Metro]

lol, sounds like the 1jz-gte might start going up in price if everyone here is after them.

[frank280zx]

so from teh sound of this, all engines need some modification? given he allready has a l28et that saves him some, and with forged internals, and some good porting/bigger turbo... he is in the game for 450 if you ask me, and the t5 would hold up that power given it is treated well.. in anycase you could swap a gearbox easely and upgrade to something hybrid like jeffp did.

 

dont get me wrong difrent engines all sound nice... but consider quite a modification, and investment aswel

[slownrusty]

Why not consider the 2JZGTE? Its by far the most respected in-liner for being strong and robust straight out of the box PLUS you can work into any parts store and get a water pump, timing belt etc etc try that with a RB.

 

The 2JZ is the Daddy!

 

Yasin

[violacleff]

T5 holding 450hp? Your kidding right? and who treats there tranny well with an engine that powerful? As far as the 7m goes, why does everyone mention the HG? Whats so hard about sticking in a metal one, and that problem's solved? Does anyone know what a 1jz can do on stock block? I think that would be the largest deciding factor for me if money is an issue. The 7m is def. up to the task. If the 1jz is, I think that would be the motor to go with. Again, I'd say consider which motor has the most stout tranny option as well if you plan on driving hard. This could throw another 2.5k wrench in your budget, especially if you go L.

[Sparks280zt]

for T5 i think he is reffering to a GM one, not the BW Nissan T5, maybe a WC t5, they can hold some power, anyways i agree with violacleff, the 7m is cheap, same price range as l28t, and it can make some power. Get a metal HG and some new head bolts and you are set

[Guest emo236]

Someone said that it's not that hard to stick a MHG on the 7m and be done with it. Well, it's not that easy. the block and head have to be decked. Go on supraforums and read about how many people have problems with their MHGs. MHG's are expensive too. My 7m supra blew the HG. the 7m is an awesome motor, but there's a reason why a lot of MK3 supras are getting 1JZ's swapped in. A lot of if comes down to what you want. the 1JZ and 7m have about the same power potential. the 7m will be real torquey and the 1JZ will be high revving. IMO, 7m for drag, 1jz for autox.

[frank280zx]

hehe well you got a point 450 hp and being gentle to the gears... anyway im in europe so my point of view would be diffrent as avialabilty is not same here as in the US

As are the stock Z specs, we get more avialability of other engines aswel, and for some we get none.. so geoghrapical factors do weigh in, still i would not discart the l28 just like that

[Clifton]

Given that you you only want 450, I would assume crank HP and you want to do it on pump gas. A stock block L28 can do that with a full T4 turbo and enough fuel on pump gas. I know I did it. You could even run additonal injectors for fuel to keep it cheap. If you have a turbo L28 already I would run that. The trans is weak, I have broke one(5th gear) but they are only $100 at the local pick and pull.

 

If you go the 7M route you will still need a larger turbo to make good power and a metal head gasket. Clutch and injectors are good for 400 rwhp.

 

The 1JZ's stock turbos might make 450 crank, not sure. The can rev like a mo-fo though due to the short stroke just like the RB26. They also use the R154 trans like the 7M.

 

I like the 2jz but they are double the cost of a 1jz. A vh45 with a lower CR and a T72 at 18 psi would be pure evil. I've seen them for $800-1300 on Ebay.

[240hoke]

Hey guys thanks for the replies, i jsut wrote up a reply a little while ago but for some reason it didnt post it. Anyway looks like the l28 and the 7m/1jz have got it right now. I need to get to doing some research.

 

I think the 1jz motorsets are going for 1900 or less. So that a good option the 2k-2.4k for the rb25 was really gonna break me. I would absolutly love to go 2jz but they are just as much if not more then the rb26 sooo definitly outta my price range.

 

I am looking to start with 450 RWHP, And i know this is possibe on a l28. I have the setup to do it i just need forged pistons and larger injectors. I like the l28 but i wouldnt say its too reliable at that power output, and it definitly isnt as reliable as the other motors listed. Also the l28 is so popular I would kinda like to do something not many have done.

 

Anyway.. keep shooting out opinions and any info especially on the supra motors, im like to know as much as i can before i make my choice.

 

Sparks -- i havent had any trouble with sds and i like the system, but im ready to move on to something with more features, especially datalogging. When i got SDS i didnt have a laptop and now that im heading off to college this fall ill be getting a laptop which i can use to programming nad datalogging. Microtech looks like a cheap new system with lots of nice features so im leaning that way regaurdless of what engine i use.

 

p.s. i sold my streetbike to do a more ambitious engine build so long love the Z !

[Clifton]

I am looking to start with 450 RWHP' date=' And i know this is possibe on a l28. [/quote']

 

 

If you really want to do that in rear wheel HP on pump gas I would definately skip the L28. 7M and 1JZ might do it but they will be at there limit on pump gas. 400 rwhp is easy with a 7M on 91 octane though. 2JZ's make 450-480 rwhp @ 18psi (safe limit on pump) with a big single.

 

If you want a reliable 450 rwhp I would use the 2JZ or something with more displacement. If you don't mind running H20 inj or 100 octane then any would do.

[Guest emo236]

450rwhp is doable on pump gas with a 7m. you'll need a MHG, a good condition 7m, upgraded turbo (SP turbo's will easily help out), lex AFM, injectors, a standalone would be nice, and a bigger intercooler. check out 7mpower.com to get a good idea of what exactly you need to do to reach your power goal. Note that quite a few of the cars on that site are street cars, thus run on 91 pump gas.

[frank280zx]

wow guys looks likes 7mgte's arent that hard to find here either, and on top not to pricey... defenatly keeping my eyes out, when i find one cheap im going 7m power for sure

[Guest Typenamehere]

The 1jz is an all around better motor than the 7m. It's near bullet proof, the head flows better, it's just as easy to work on and not that much more money. With that being said, if money is an issue, your best bet is the 7m.... that is if you can find one with high compression and without rod-bearing faliure.

 

An MHG is something that you shoiuld do when building a 7m, but not necesarry. The issue with the headgasket isn't cause by the gasket itself, but rather from the headbolts. The stock torque of the headbolts is somewhere around 35lbs. Some people have had success re-torqing the bolts to 75lbs, but it's much safer to use ARP headbolts/studs.

 

Contrary to what everyone else is saying, if you have plans for above 350hp, you're gonna want to replace the 440cc injectors. Bigger turbo isn't needed, and EBC/MBC mated with a "upgraded" stock turbo has yeilded successful resuilts.

[Guest emo236]

upgraded stocks are pretty good. But they're still pricey, just not as pricey as an SP turbo. on my MK3, I have a 62-1 upgrade and it's actually pretty nice. Some say that the unbalanced turbo isn't reliable (larger compressor wheel). Mine's been fine, but I have'nt been able to boost too high since I'm still hitting fuel cut. Basically, the 7m is going to take a little prepping to make the power. i would HIGHLY recommend going MHG if you're looking for that kind of power goal. Retorquing is only effecient to a point. If you're running a lot of boost, I would go MHG.

[240hoke]

Hey guys,

 

thanks for the imput, looks like 7m and rb25 are very close. I just got back from a trip to illinois and will soon start checking more into how much i can source the engines for and what it will take for each one of them to make my hp mark.

 

Btw in NC and i think everywhere other then cali we have 93 octane at all pumps and 100 at some. Also where i live we have all the way up to 118 unleaded gas at the track for high boost run s

 

 

Anyway keep the opinions coming, ive got some unpacking to do ill prolly have more info tomarrow.