Z-Gad Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 As many of you know, I have been hard at getting the 2JZGTE 240z together. I took a break today and took my daily driver to the dyno to get a base line. While waiting for some parts for the 240z, I figured I would go for some instant gratification and ordered a cam from ISKY. I wanted to see what difference a cam change would make with my engine/turbo combination and get concrete before and after results with ONLY a cam change. I do not have a scanner (that is working), so you'll have to bear with me... Anyway, Specs on the car are as follows. 77 280z, stock L28 longblock, SP57 TO4 turbo, Evolution wastegate, 55 lb injectors, Spearco intercooler, 3" mandrel bent exhaust, TEC II EMS, very conservative timing and fuel (it IS my daily driver), pump gas and 17 psi. This was on a Mustang Dynamometer in 4th gear... Max power : 266.0 @ 4500 RPM Max torque: 319.3 @ 4000 RPM Both hp and torque start dropping at ~5200 RPM and take a dive at 5500. The guy driving the car said that it felt like he hit the rev limiter at 5500. My air/fuels are ~11.5:1 until 6000 where they drop to 10.5:1 (which I know is rich and is not helping). Hopefully, I will be able to install my cam tomorrow and dyno the car again the beginning of next week. I figure I should be able to get by with no changes at all to timing and fuel (since it was so rich) and re-dyno the car. More updates to come... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 question. those are great numbers but shouldnt you have more power with that turbo? i know those SP turbos love more boost but 17psi isnt low. im sure it could push out 20+ but still. i made little less HP but more torque at only 16psi on my stock turbo and n/a 280z ems and im not sure if i had stock 280zx turbo injectors but i did have my fuel pressure bumped up. not trying to knock ya, im just trying to learn. how conservative was the tune? any info at all to help me understand better and teach me would be awesome! also can i have a ride in the 2JZ Z at SEZ event? please! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 I am unfamiliar w/ your dyno #'s. As far as a concervative tune, I am only running total timing of 24* (could probably advance it 4-5 degrees), and air/fuel of 11.5:1 before and 10.5:1 above 6000 RPM's. These are far from optimal. The SP57 has a 57mm compressor wheel and P-trip turbine wheel. It is the baby of the SP family. There are hybrid T3/T4 turbos w/ larger compressor wheels. The cam is another limiting factor. A turbo should spool and a cam should come on at the same RPM. A mismatch of a small turbo and a large cam will have the car running out of breath as the turbo gets out of it's optimal range. The opposite is true as well. In my case, the larger frame turbo does not come on until 3700-3800 rpms. The cam is out of it's efficiency range by 5200 or so. The numbers are what they are, whether they are high or low. The dyno operator said something about Mustang dynos reading a little lower, but as far as I am concerned, the numbers themselves don't make too much difference. I am interested in the comparitive numbers after specific modifications are made. I expect a significant increase once I do the cam change. That is why I am doing this little experiment, to see if the cam is a limiting factor w/ the larger turbo. Then, the SP57 comes off and I have a T72 waiting in the wings Ofcourse you'll get to ride in the 2JZ Z!! Half the fun is building it, the other half is giving people rides in it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ON3GO Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 ah thanks for clearning that up. learn something each day. im sure you will be at or near 350rwhp mark and more torque then you will need. also why dont you advance the timing abit more? im sure you have the fuel system for it to still be safe. what cam you going with? Oh yeS!!!!!! ill bring a extra set of underwear for the 2JZ-Z ride!!! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted May 27, 2005 Author Share Posted May 27, 2005 Cam is an ISKY Intake 490 lift 276 duration Exhaust 480 lift 266 duration 114* lobe center 44* overlap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 Zgad writes:: "Ofcourse you'll get to ride in the 2JZ Z!! Half the fun is building it, the other half is giving people rides in it!!" Raises hand!. ME TOO ME TOO!.. heh. Man I sure cannot wait to see this ride as well mike. Maybe catch a ride or 2 on sept 11th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 The SP57 has a 57mm compressor wheel and P-trip turbine wheel. It is the baby of the SP family. There are hybrid T3/T4 turbos w/ larger compressor wheels. Actually from what I've seen posted the SP57 should be a 60-1 wheel and a stage 5 turbine with a .58 on the hotside. SP60 is a P trim, .68+ What cam is in it now? Turbo? Is the valve timing stock? For it to peak at 4500 and then drop with that turbo it seems almost like it is advanced too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted May 28, 2005 Author Share Posted May 28, 2005 Clifton, although I purchased my turbo second hand and am pretty sure it is a p-trim w/ a .58 a/r housing. My old T-66 was a p-trim w/ a .58 a/r housing... Regarding the timing, I used to run 16-17 degrees of total timing @ 20 psi w/ my old turbo stroker motor. Perhaps I should have rephrased my earlier post. I said "advance my timing", when I should have said "add more retard"...Anyway, at this point, I do not want to change anything besides the cam before another run...timing will be a later issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 I was kinda vauge. I was refering to cam timing being retarded. I'll put money on non P trim . Regardless I can't wait to see the cam comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bastaad525 Posted May 28, 2005 Share Posted May 28, 2005 you know I made a suggestion some time back that someone add a dyno database to accompany the time slip database but I guess no one really looked at that.... Kinda sux I think a dyno database would be great to have so people could look at what people are (somewhat) typically getting on various setups. Great numbers and yeah Mustang dynos do read a bit lower than dynojet dyno's, but even with that in mind I too would have expected to see a little higher HP. Still that's damn impressive for a daily driver that's well over 300 flywheel HP and must be fun to drive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 Well, just returned from Central Florida turbo with my cam results. The previously posted numbers were from a 4th gear pull. The 4th gear pull takes a longer time, consequently it is a little harder on the car, so we decided to do third gear pulls instead. So we can "compare apples to apples", the best third gear pull I had made was... 5/27/05 262.1 whp @ 5000 RPM 302.2 TQ @4500 RPM After finally getting the cam installed, I had to change idle and cruise fuel values as they were all over the place. I really did not change the high rpm fuel values as the car ran so rich last time. the ONLY change I made was the cam. I did not change valve springs or anything (I have valve springs to install, but again, I wanted to compare apples to apples). Anyway, here are the results... 6/10/05 304.0 whp @ 5500 320.3 TQ @4500 Both runs were on pump gas and 17 psi. Again, the cam was the only change made besides some air fuel corrections. The AFR's were between 11.5:1 and 12:1 except for around 6500 where they dip into the 10.8:1 arena. Overall, I am pleased with the results, gaining nearly 42 hp for a $200 investment. Next, I will install the valve springs, the T-72 and spin it up to 7500 or so and see what happens... OK, now back to wiring in the harness in the 2JZ 240Z ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 you're nuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted June 10, 2005 Share Posted June 10, 2005 Wow, that's a pretty big improvement:icon14:. What cam of theirs was it? I was looking and didn't see a turbo cam listed or any of the lobe center numbers. Were you running a turbo cam or N/A cam before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-Gad Posted June 10, 2005 Author Share Posted June 10, 2005 I was running the stock turbo cam before. This cam is one I requested to have ground for me.. kind of an experiment... Cam is an ISKY Intake 490 lift, 276 duration Exhaust 480 lift, 266 duration 114* lobe center 44* overlap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speeder Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Very nice, Mike! Sort of puts to bed that old urban legend that bigger cams don't help turbo motors, huh? If I remember correctly, TimZ got about 70-80rwhp improvement from a cam swap on his monster setup. The key to all of this (as in any cam selection) is that the cam is right for the application. In this case, the significant number I believe is that 114* lobe center angle. My new motor has a cam with similar specs, by Elgin, with just a little more lift, and it really seems to work well. I love to see scientific investigations like this - Rock On! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody 82 ZXT Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Anyway' date=' here are the results...6/10/05 304.0 whp @ 5500 320.3 TQ @4500[/quote'] Wow Looks like I'm going to have to change my cam if I ever finish the current projects I've got going. Nice #'s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Yeah mike that is freaking great. Has me looking at getting a cam made or something.. Just have to learn more about them. Great JOB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 damn.. that much of a rwhp jump with JUST a cam?! wow... i think im going to go out and buy me a new cam! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sims76 Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Z-Gad, Excellent, excellent, excellent post! I see that you have listed a few mods, but can I assume everything else is stock? I have been running around daily with my Z at 12lbs creeping to 15lbs and wondering how long the stock internals are going to last. I'm keeping 11:1 AFR and 20* total timing under full boost. I have the itch to up the timing, but I think I'll sacrifice some reliability/durability. What have you tuned to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afshin Posted June 11, 2005 Share Posted June 11, 2005 Thanks for nothing man, now I have no choice but to add a cam to my never ending list of goodies BTW on the subjective side, any difference in idle quality, cruising, engine smoothness.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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