pparaska Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 I am willing to bet that the vendor will straighten this out, but to have ordered these on Friday, being told they'd go out Monday, and to have them not go out until Tuesday (after offering to pay extra for them to rush getting them out their door as I wanted them PRONTO) and THEN get them and have them be WRONG really pi$$es me off!!!! Does this, this, this, this, this, or this look like what a "D port" header should look like (That's an Earl's D-port gasket on them)? They are stamped with PN 8019 like the D-Port Angle Plug headers are supposed to be and the vendor told me are what I want. But damned if they don't have port shapes just like the vertical oval Hooker Block Hugger headers I am replaceing (due to the bad port match, but mostly because I needed an Angle Plug Header!!!). I discussed my need for D-port Angle plug headers, as I had Canfield heads. We discussed the Angle plug part as well as the D-port part. He mentioned he'd sold these to others with V8Z's and I told him that's how I found out about these. My guess is that either they changed manufacturers, they or the manufacturer mis marked the headers (easy to do - they look just like the non-angle plug ones they sell), or the manufacturer changed the design. Did I ask if the ones I'd get look like the ones in the photo? Yes. That didn't help any. Word to the wise - if you order these headers, be SURE to specify that you will not accept headers that aren't really for D-port heads. I haven't even tried them to see if the sparkplugs will mis, but looking at them it seems they will work. Who wants to guess how much performance those tiny, horribly mis-matched ports will leave on the table? I didn't build this engine and spend all this money on it to have it choked down by ports like those on the headers.... Can you tell I'm upset???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Well, mildly upset anyway, I don't think we want to see what your like when your really upset. If I were you, I'd run them anyway just so the rest of us can beat the pants off of you cause your headers suck! I mean we'd do it for you.... I'd bet they'll straighten it out, at least I hope so. Makes you appreciate quality sales people who really know what they are talking about, instead of giving lip service doesn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I bought those exact same headers just a month or two ago, but I didn't look at them that closely before I installed them. Maybe mine are just as bad as yours. The instructions that came with mine stated that they were actually Patriot Headers. Did yours come with any similar paperwork? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Can you port them, or is there just not enough meat there? What you got obviously doesn't match the picture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Oh, I didn't look in the box that far until now. They sent gaskets and bolts along with instructions from Patriot. The gaskets are DEFINITELY not D-port, but oval, with the long direction going vertical. I don't understand this. The photo on their web site clearly show's D-port header openings on their 8019 headers. But the ones that I got were stamped D-port but are definitely NOT D-port headers. I kind of figured they would be Patriot, but I couldn't find a part number like 8019 on their site. Maybe it's a part number that TTC puts on them... NO SCRATCH THAT. Here they are: http://www.pertronix.com/exhaust_products/pdf_files/street_rod_headers.pdf PN H8019 and H8109-1. Footnote 36 says they "Fits D-Port cylinder heads including ZZ4 crate engines". But they are also Footnote 11 "Universal application for most street rod applications". I guess that refers to them being "Block Huggers" There is some weld material that could be ported, but the pipes are oval'd so there's no room to bring them to D-port that I can see. I shouldn't have to port them. I had thought of doing that, but screw that. I'll return them. I'm off to look at the Patriot website now. Hopefully I can get some ordered and shipped red label.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Totally unacceptable... This is just another example of bad customer service and poor product representation... Thermaltech Huh? Look at the brightside... If you had a Z06 intake, I bet it wouldn't have ten pounds of metal inside it that you just FOUND 20 minutes ago... Well gee, THIS throws a wrench in the works... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartman Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 These headers at Summit look like the same one's (and they have an 8019 in the part number). "Patriot tight tuck street rod headers", Summit Part # PTE-H8019-1. Summit states that they are for oval port shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Mike - that stinks! Bartman - I wonder what headers they have pictured on their site then? The 8019 seems to be an oval port angle plug header. WHY someone would call them D-port is beyond me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Some observations about Patriot headers: http://www.pertronix.com/exhaust_products/pdf_files/street_rod_headers.pdf 8019 has footnote 36, which says they "fit" D-port heads, and 17 which says they will fit angle plug heads. That doesn't seem to be true (the D-port part), as far as MATCHING a D-port shape - the ones I have are oval, and Summit Racing's info says they are for oval port - that could be in error - wouldn't be the first time I found incorrect application info on their site! Oh, Patriot's catalog says these headers take gasket H7585. If those are the ones in my box are those, they are oval. No way to tell, no part numbers on the gaskets and the instructions are general, not just for this header... 8027/8028 has footnote 1, which says they will not fit angle plug heads, but nothing about oval port. They don't have a foot note for that... They list gasket H7586 for those - different than those for the 8019 headers. If they are D-port headers, that'd mean the these are straight plug, D-port headers. Did Chevy ever make such a head? I remember oval port (well, squarish actually) angle plug "Turbo" heads from the early 70s, but D-port, straight plug seems wierd. My guess is that 8027 is an oval port, straight plug header like the hooker 2100. ThermalTech lists the 8027 with no details as to port shape or angle plug, but by process of elimination based on them listing other headers for those combinations, I'd guess I'm correct. Summit also lists this as oval port. If you look real hard at the photo of the D-port header on TTC's site you can kind of make out an upside down "8019" on the flange, just like mine have. So my theory of the manufacturer changing their design sounds like it might be correct. So that would mean TTC isn't really intentionally misleading you, but they should yank that photo if the part they SELL isn't what's shown... 8037 has footnote 17 "fits angle plug". No mention of D-port. But since that is shown for 8019, my guess is that 8037 is oval port, angle plug. TTC lists that as only "angle plug" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwik240z Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Pete, Get off the computer and back out to the garage. You wil never be ready for the convention.lol! Don't worry, I am sure they will only rob you of a few HP. Now I may have a chance to keep up with you. If you need any help, let me know. Hoping you will be on the road in time. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 yeah - I'm not looking forward to the "under-the-car-oil-pan-dance"! I'm just trying to find a REAL d-port, angle plug block header that will fit this swap. I can't believe I haven't found one yet. Thought I had! The search engine came up with this and the patriot header (same thing). I'm looking at Hedman now. They have PN 68409, but don't list a different number for HTC coated. I'll be calling tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 I searched before, but somehow missed this. Too bad I didn't see this before and know that the TTC 8019 is the Patriot H8019: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=84564&highlight=D-port+header Dan's already been here and done this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 As I was reading this thread I thought, "Hey, didn't I post about this a while back? I'll find that post and tell Pete I told you so". Sorry Pete. I feel your pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Just so we have a round-robbin of threads connected at one point: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=85266&highlight=D-port+header Search Search Search! I was looking for quick info the other night and found the TTC header being advertised as a good fit and great service from the company. I should have searched farther. Oh well, I hope someone finds this stuff useful in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 BTW, with the Canfield heads (mine are the 215s) the standard length Autolite 3924 plug hits the pipe. A shorter Accel header plug MIGHT work, but I'd probably have to drop the headers to change those too... What's crazy is that the TTC (Patriot) angle plug header 8037 is made the correct way to use angle plug heads with no problem. The front and back ports have the tube going to the outer part of the collector, the middle ports to the inner 2 tubes nearest the head. Why Patriot went back to the straight plug pipe arrangement for the "fit D-port head" (seal might be a better term to use, and maybe just barely) 8019 header is beyond me. It is better than my Hooker 2001s, due to them angling the piping differently into the collector, but not really enough to work well. The 8019 may work with GM angle plug heads, but definitely not Canfields and maybe not other angle plug heads. They WOULD if they had just kept the pipe arrangement like the 8037... I was going to have to grind the cone off below the flange on the 8019 anyway and the 8037 is just a 3 bolt flat flange that I can use easier. I think I'll have TTC rush me a set of 8037C's and be done with this. At least the plugs will go in!! But I wonder how much worse the flange/port fit is on those with D-port heads? I'll ask. My further research on the topic of angle plug D-port heads here on HybridZ is giving no joy. The Sanderson CC1HO MAY work, the Hedman 68409 MAY work. Nothing else has turned up yet. If I find a good D-port angle plug block hugger I will be sure to post in this thread and will probably go back to some of the other related ones and post there too...this has got to be an FAQ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Looks like Jim (BLKMGK) found that the rewarder BH1020 didn't fit - hit on passenger side. I wonder if the others are the same way - they have many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 Pete, I've got a set of Sanderson somethin-somethins here at the house... I'll check and see what they are tonight... If you need them... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 I may want to look at them. But from what I've read Sanderson doesn't have a block hugger that fits our app... Just talked to Andy at TTC. He is very apologetic and said send them back and he'll refund me. I figured this, as they have a great rep for customer service. He agreed about Patriot changing the port design on the 8019. He wasn't aware of it until now - he had grabbed a set this am after getting my message and saw that the opening is not a good match for a D-port, although it would seal. I think this is a pretty recent design change by Patriot that got in under the radar at TTC until now. Before I could ask, Andy said he'd change the picture on their web site to not show that nice D-port shape like they have up presently (11 August 2005). That's what I call good customer service! Since Mike kz just told me that the 8037 fit the angle plugs but needed another joint on the driver's side around the steering shaft (something I don't think I should have to do for a simple block hugger), I've decided to try to use the 8019 headers by dimpling for spark plug clearance and using Accel 0414S header plugs that are the cold 3/4" extended reach 5/8" plug that replace the Autolite 3924 that Canfield says to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoldman Posted August 11, 2005 Share Posted August 11, 2005 I just went through fitment issue with Sanderson headers that I bought from JTR for my Air Flow Research 195cc LT4 heads. This is not a JTR issue, by the way. It is an aftermarket head issue. JTR sent the right stuff and got it to me real fast.........good service from them. The part number from JTR is Dat-402C and Sandersons numbers is CC5. They are the best looking, tightest fitting blockhuggers I have ever seen, and they fit the stock LT1 heads perfectly. They bottom of the collector is angled toward the oil pan, which makes the exhaust guys job a little tougher, but not insurmountable. They are real D Port and match the heads perfectly. Unfortunatly, I have AFR heads, and the two inner tubes hit on the outer lower edge of the head casting. I called Sanderson and talked to Tony, who was very helpful. He said that this is a common problem with aftermarket heads because while they follow the intake pattern of the stock heads very well, they all seem to do their own thing on the exhaust side. This causes all kinds of fitment problems, as both Pete and I are experiencing. I am grinding the edge of the head casting to keep the tubes from hitting; it only needs a 1/16 or so. There is plently of meat on the casting, so this isn't a problem, but was/is frustrating. Keep after it, Pete, if I can figure it out, I'm sure your solution will be even better! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted August 11, 2005 Author Share Posted August 11, 2005 Bill, this is great info. I'm on the phone with JTR now as they are $300 from them and Sanderson sells them for $375 (both coated). Greg at JTR is checking if he has D-port ones in stock. Greg tells me that the CC5 (DAT-402C) come in standard and D-port, so be careful when ordering. Thanks! (Quite an FAQ we are getting on blockhuggers here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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