Are we ricers and hypocrites too?

[silicone boy]

I know there has been all this rice slamming over the past month or so (at least), but I think we should all take a step back and look at things with an new perspective, after all, we drive Japanese cars too. I have to admit that I used to hate hotrodders, just like you all hate ricers. I've been tuning German suspensions (BMW, VW) since my early teens and I used to make fun of bubbas who only cared about the quarter mile. That is not a test of a complete car. I think 0-100-0, lateral g-force, and autocross times are far more important for evaluating a vehicle. From what I'm hearing on these boards, most only care about quarter mile times. There are those like Mike and Mike and Pete and a host of others who understand that the stock Z underpinnings suck and need attention, just like the engine bay.

 

I think we should respect those who deserve to be respected, no matter what the make of the vehicle--after all, isn't it astounding how you could even make a wrong wheel drive car accelerate like a Z06? Let's all give serious car people some credit--we can still make fun of those with more stereo wattage than horsepower. It was this acceptance that drew me into the Hybrid Z world. I was tired of spending thousands to gain a handful of horsepower, and I was extremely jealous of the American V8 fans cause they could make power so cheaply. What I couldn't accept was the lousy handling that usually comes with the territory (C4 and C5 Vettes and 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies excluded). That's why I set out to build the ultimate street machine, one with a lot of power and could be made to handle. If I had stuck to my old prejudices, I wouldn't have been able to accept a Hybrid Z. As a wise man one said :"can't we all just get along?"

[Tim240z]

In my opinion, I have nothing against the import crowd, but 'ricers' are a different story altogether!

It does not follow that if you have an import car you're a ricer, but if you plaster it with 15lbs worth of stickers, 100lbs worth of fiberglass that has apparently no function, and drop the suspension to the ground and run the black steel 13inch rims......then you deserve to be made fun of.

I for one, have driven and 'hotrodded' 4 cylinder front wheel drive cars,and for the record I have the utmost admiration for the guys who can get those little engines to run 13s and quicker, but lets be serious, a ricer (by the true definition), is not a true performance (speed or handling) enthusiast...let me stop ranting now, I'm sure you get my drift.

Tim

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree Tim, that would be my definition as well. We do put body kits on our cars, but outside of maybe the prima donna scarab none of our cars have wings that are out of place or disportionate to the size and power of the car.

I had to laugh a few of them were so extreme, you know they added all kinds of drag on the car, so in effect its slower, also to keep traction the wing would really need to be on the hood.

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[Guest Anonymous]

Every once in awhile a big plate of rice and beans may be just what you need.

[fl327]

i like rice rockets, i think they look really nice sometimes, sometimes people get it all twisted up and make their cars look ridiculous,(they get more girls than victories in those) but what did people think in the 70s and 80s when you had the birth of the primadonna, gnose imsa, the ubquitous front spoiler, wings, glasspacks, and that jim cook racing kit for the z, and a completely stock L motor running in it? a rice rocket thats a lot slower than it looks. for its time, the z car was the same thing, until you start pumping it up with whatever floats your boat, justifying looking that crazy-but a lot of them only had the flares and goofy wings with a big fart pipe. i talk to import guys all the time and its all love with that crowd, do you what wanna do, im related to a million and one rice rocket guys who know a million more and they are good people, maybe a little misquided, i had a civic that ran 15s once upon a time you know. i work on a lot of import cars (dont bring a fwd toyota ever again pleez) mostly hondas, actually i think they are pretty straight forward, but i wont drive one hard, theres no "rockcrusher" replacement strength tranny for those things, fwd-work of the devil i swear!!!!! honda i think is one of the easier ones, but i wouldnt want to campaign one of those ever again.

[Guest greimann]

As car enthusiasts I believe we are all cut from the same cloth, wanting speed, power, beauty. But with any large group, there are going to be subsets that go about seeking them in different ways. Rice to me is more of an attitude, a mind set, a way of life, not limited to Japanese cars. I have seen Dodge Neons, Chevy Cavaliers, and even BMWs "riced out". Certainly the Japanese cars have the majority of the attention because of the volume of used and new cars out there.

 

It is only human nature seek out your status in the group and verbal bashing is one way to establish, in your own mind anyway, your position in the pack. I believe this is OK as long as it is kept in good humor and within your own group. Certainly outward name calling and verbal attacks directed at the target group are humorless and unacceptable.

 

So I think we can have our opinions AND get along too.

 

P.S. While having a moment of profound thought and commentary while giving his new conference, R.K. is NOT a wise man!

[Guest Anonymous]

FL327,

 

You know man, I have to admit your logic is sound. I didn't think of it that way really, but I do remember (and your right its no different) glass kits on Z's and the louvered windows and side windows and your right, none of it did anything to improve performance very much back in the early 70's when it started. I also remember my friends in about '75 were into minitrucks at the time. They had the same sort of riced out deals, big spoiler/flare package usually just stuffed on a stock truck with wheels. Most of my partners had Datsuns, but at any rate, it was no different, if you look at those kits now they do look a bit rediculous.

So in retrospect, I suppose I should try and reshape my opinion somewhat. The ONLY exception I can't make is for those who insist a 16 sec is 'quick' (see the race story for an example of this neanderthal) and are all cocky about it and talking **** .

Anyway, the last post summed it up pretty well to about the psychology of car nuts and human nature. So are we ricer's? I don't think so really, but I'm not going to kid myself into believe that I'm not into import racing, as a domestic engine doesn't make a import not a import (it just makes it quick ).

 

Regards,

 

Lone

[awd92gsx]

Hell yeah, I'm a ricer. With my own taste. Of course, not everybody will agree. Some people will look at my car and say, "Ricer"

 

But, I will be the first to admit, "He who have Kung-Fu bodykit must have Kung-Fu engine."

 

I used to think Playstations and TV's in a car was totally gay. Until one day I was sitting in a customers car and out popped an LCD screen with Gran Turismo playing on it...Now I'm thinking..."hey...I want one!"

[fl327]

im a fast car freak, be it import or domestic, i like high revvers, turbos, chargers anything, i dig anything that can get up and go and get rubber doing so. but i really like cars i dont have to smog, and when it comes to the cool import cars you dont really have a lot of choice because there isnt the same underground scene for a r100 or a toyota corolla that there is for the Z, once i stumbled across that (through madmanadams site) the Z is the original rice rocket, i wasnt there back then but my boss and all of his friends said in the 70s they were just like the hondas. i think its the cause. yeah i thought that having a tv in your car was pure stupidity, until my buddy showed up in the 87 honda civic clunker with 17" chrome wheels, booming sound, and a big tv in the center console playing pornos in bumper to bumper traffic with the tv hooked up to the speakers, now thats cool.

i have an import race car,with a v8 and no mufflers for almost a whole week of wot (just gotmy 2003 tags baby. vrooooooomvroooooooom.

[Sean 83ZXT]

Perhaps we should change the phrase from Ricer to Poser? It would make the definition much clearer.

[denny411]

The term "Ricer" is just a more specific type of poser. I agree that there are many many posers out there, Heck I was one at one time.

When I was 16 or 17 it`s all I could afford to be, I was lucky to have a car let alone a fast one. I still loved the sound of loud exhaust,the look of fat tires and air shocks.none of which helped the performance of the car but it made me feel like it was faster

my problem with the ricer croud is, they seem to have plenty of money to spend.but they put alot off it into things that do nothing for peformance:bonk: whiththe amount of money that some of these guys have in there cars they could be very fast.

What`s worst of all is the attitude that you get from them, like no old rear wheel drive

,carbureted car could possibly beat their front wheel drive,fuel injected,slammed,18" wheeled monster fiberglass winged,bass thumpin,1800lb civic.

I admit that there are some of these guys out there getting respectable #`s from these little puddle jumpers,but it`s a very small percentage of them.

The fact still remains, that rear wheel drive will always be the best way to go The only thing that could change my mind would be to see John Force set the new 1/4 mi record with a front wheel drive

[pparaska]

Len, if you want to call any car made in Japan a ricer, that's fine for you, but it doesn't seem to jive with the definition that Lone and many others have given to the term. Yes you can rice out or turn anything into a poser. I like the poser term better.

 

Maybe it's a good thing that the young new drivers DON'T put power mods in. More power

means more speed usually (almost without exception when people are young ) and that

means more people getting hurt because they

don't respect the power and speed yet.

 

And Posing really isn't that bad either - if someone builds a car up with wheels, tires, neon, body kits, etc. and the KNOW it's still a not-so-fast car, but just like how it looks, that's fine with me. The joke is when they believe that just because someone on the Internet or who lives in their area has the same model or even make of car that truly is fast, etc., that all cars of that make and/or model must be fast. This is the misguided part to me and that's what makes me laugh.

 

I view your car as a hotrod. You took a production car, slammed a big, more powerful engine into it and made it PERFORM BETTER. Nothing rice about it in my (or Lone's or other's) definition of what a "ricer" is. Ricer, to me, is derogatory because it's associated by many as a definition of a car (or it's owner) that has made the car into a poser but then makes the false leap of faith that the car is now a PERFORMANCE VEHICLE.

 

To me, just because the Z is a made in Japan and has mods doesn't mean it's ricer - it's just that you chose a light Japanese car that has good handling traits to add a bunch of power, i.e., it PERFORMS BETTER. Heck, one of my favorite things to see is a stock looking American, Japanese, whatever car that's been hopped up under the hood and fenders to perform much better than it's stock appearance.

 

And adding wide tires and an airdam doesn't mean your just into posing either. When I was young and in college and had my Z, I didn't have the money for engine upgrades, a V8 swap, etc., so I tuned the L24 up as best I could, did simple engine mods and added tires, struts, springs for better handling and then added an air dam for better looks (yes "posing", you might even say), and to keep the front end from lifting so badly at high speed! Ricer, no. Poser, no. Just some mods to add handling and stability, while also changing/personalizing the styling a bit to make it more appealing to my eye as well. (I always thought the pointy nose of a Z looked strange.)

 

Nothing's ever black or white, just shades of gray.

[silicone boy]

That's it! You've just given me flashbacks to the 70's. The Z car became the original rice car when those stupid louvers came into existence. Then came the stupid Kaminari rear spoiler. Are we, as Z owners the origin of this evil that has darkened our land? Is this a pestilence of our own creation?

[silicone boy]

I don't think adding an air dam to the front of a Z is posing at all. It's actually functional and adds stability on this particular car at speed. I think Pete hit the nail on the head for me when he mentioned "performance car". My goal is to make the best accelerating, best stopping, best handling street car I can. I had to borrow parts from the American parts bin, as well as the Japanese. It wasn't going to happen with any German car I had available to me (Porsche's are way too expensive to hotrod, and you can't put a V8 into a VW), and the American cars that had handling potential close to the Z's were too heavy. I think that when you cross the line and put a V8 into a Z (a crazy thought when you look at it objectively) you can't be called a poser or ricer or whatever.

[Georgia Flash]

Ok Ok Ok I have to say something here!

To the one fella who said that he wasn't there in the 70's and that his boses all say that the Z wasn't respected and that the Z was merely looked at as a ricer back then. Tell your bosses they must have been driving station wagons back then! The Z car didn't become the best selling sports car of all time because it was looked at as a RICER! NO NO NO! The little Z deserves much respect. When I was a teenie bopper in the 70's I couldn't afford a Z. Most teens couldn't, so therefore you didn't have all the rediculous things done to the early Zs like you see with the Hondas, Cavaliers, Neons and so forth.

As far as all the talk about louvers, I had them on a 76 Camaro and a 80 Sunbird so they were not just on the Z's either. Louvers were a car craze fad that swept through practically every brand and make of car back then.

Just to finish this out, my mom had one of those early Honda Civics (70's) model, I test drove many 70's model Z's and the two dont compare, remember I was there...in the 70's, I had a chance to drive these cars when they were factory tight and fresh smelling on the inside, no rust in the floor pans! Leave the Z out of the RICER discussion for it does not deserve to be mentioned in the same breath.

Thank you, and good day

[silicone boy]

I have to agree with the Georgia Flash (except for the louver part--I'll get to that in a bit). Every man lusts after the car he couldn't afford when he was a teenager. For me, it was the Z, the only decent car they made in the 1970's. I still have to say that those louvers were made famous by the Z as opposed to other cars and were probably the start of the ricer thing.

[Guest Anonymous]

Georgia Flash reports correctly and experienced what is known as an automotive phenomenon when the 240 Z was introduced. People were lining up at Datsun Dealers to get their names on a list to wait for their new Z. People that were lucky enough to obtain a new Z, were re-selling their recent purchase at a profit and returnning to the Dealer to order another one. Corvette sales at the time plummetted and Corvette owners were selling their cars wanting the 240 Z. There were used Z's selling over $2000.00 from the new dealer price. Mazda tried to create this type of frenzy when they introduced the Miata with blanket advertising with few or any Miata's at the dealers.It really did not work.Datsun Z advertising was literally spread by word of mouth. The first Mustang's were a craze that every one had to have. The Beatles were an absolute phenomenon.At this point in time there was a also turning point in American culture that anything produced in Japan was not extremely inferior in materials and craftmanship. After the war in the 1950's, everyone avoided cheap Japanese products and there was incredible animosity towards Japan that lingered in the minds of Americans until the 1960s.When you saw something cheap or inferior, the question was, "Is it Jap?" Products "Made in Japan" carried a heavy social stigma. That is my history lesson for today and Mr. Grump can tell you that the introduction of the 1953 Corvette was a complete sales disaster and the Z despite getting a late start on the Corvette has outsold GM's Flagship. The Z was an instant classic because it copied successfully just about everything desired in a 70's true sports car..and just about everyone that loved sports cars wanted one.The "Peoples's Sports Car" year after year after year. Ford sold about a 1000 Cobras and the last ones left were difficult to sell to the general public. Cobras were discontinued for lack of public demand. I have a friend that still tells the story of a direlect Cobra setting on a street in Portland, Oregon for $800.00 with no engine . The engine was removed to put in a Mustang because the Cobra was an overheating,unreliable, uncomfortable PITA

[Guest Anonymous]

Is the cobra still there? I'm about 40 minutes from my bank and Portland

Yeah I agree, unfortunately I don't have the retrospective pose on the situation, but the modern rice-mobile doesn't quite compare to the run-of-the-mill Z back in the day, by pure numbers or testimonials. I don't mind the actual doing of fake mods and whatnot, I just don't like the cocky attitudes, on and off the road. I'm really against anything half-hearted or insincere, I guess that's partially me then. I wish I could be totally sovereign in my opinion, but I'm human, and perhaps I'm biased to dislike rice mobiles (fake or not), when they could have spent the money more effectively. Hey, if you give me $15,000 to spend on a base and mods, I'm not going to be running to the nearest honda dealer. No, I'm going to start with something light, and already well-handling, something with rwd of course. I've driven stock 240z's, with stock SU l24's, and I've driven both of my parents civic, accord, and my brother's prelude. No comparison. I still congratulate anyone who can make it to the finish line in 13s. or better, or get good performance numbers. There's no doubt to that. The bottom line is, the s30 Z is not rice, and unless modded to be WORSE than stock.. is still a formidable street car (not a poser )

Well, that's all I have to say about that. Plus, I have to go to work

Thank theh' lo'd fo bringin me t'wards theh light, and 'way from theh rice!

-980mak

[fl327]

i call every import car a rice rocket no matter what engine it has in it. yeah im a poser, i have a

hotrod covered in rice. if you wanna callem posers that works for me, i think thats a way better term because it includes the non-import cars that people make look fast.

 

georgia flash- i never meant to say the z wasnt respected, it wouldnt have sold so much if it were, im saying these cars were everywhere, just like the hondas are today- that is the only similarity just to clarify. people did all types of stuff to make their car stick out from the rest, just like today, and this resulted in all the crazy options for styling, and racing developed some of the better ones im sure. im not saying people werent trying to really do the damn thing with a z car way back when, but you cant deny a good deal of early z owners went the styly POSER route with the whole deal?

i dont think a fiberglass airdam is posing, i take mine off for the stock valance and it is a little twichier up top. oh well.

pete-are you getting upset? you shouldnt, i get off on it. my motto above everything i say on this site is

"do what you gotta do" sometimes you cant have the craziest car out there because sometimes its just not wise to spread yourself so thin. i run a mild 327, and im restraining myself from going bigger and crazier, but right now all i can and afford to do is make my car put more of that more than average power to the ground in different ways other than tearing down the motor and going nuts on it. i took the juice OFF the car because right now i cant really afford the repurccusions it could have , plus id try to kill myself with it, its too tempty.

 

times have changed, and you know what i think, its the poser ricer cars that survived the 70s

the best, the ones without the mods, because a lot of the ones with the mods rusted out, fell apart, or they were crashed, leaving the nice cars with airdams and rims exhaust and what not, we here bought them, and dropped in the pain, maybe its a good thing some people dont go all out.

[Guest Anonymous]

I was there when the car's came out too, and I'm not sure I remember everyone selling they're vette's and such for them. Alot of the cars I saw were driven by woman (Please take no offense to this, I'm not calling anyone a woman unless you are of course) just as the Miata was.

 

Sorry but at least in my area, the Z was a bellybutton car when it came out. Thats probably why it wasn't a chick magnet, because the chick was already in the car.

 

This is MY opinion and what I remember of the cars and the drivers I saw driving those cars. Seriously though, it was a affordable sportscar and bought by many of the younger single men/woman of the time.

 

Was it a great car and a sales success? Absolutely. Was it a great value for the money? Absolutely. Was it the best performance car for its time period, perhaps on a bang for the buck contest, performance, if a guy could afford it back then, L88 Vette, no question for this GM fan.

 

(the louver deal, sorry didn't like them personally and they still serve no function that tint can't handle which doesn't take 50% of your view away IMHO.)

 

Regards,

 

Lone