2003z Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 The blame is always placed on the overtaking driver' date=' and I've been hung out to dry by "slower" students who waved me by, only to pin it and drag race down the straights... Not saying this did or didn't happen, but the blame always gets pinned on me when I biatch about it in the pits...Mike[/quote']This is true, but just out of common courtesy, when being passed, even by a much faster car, I let up to make it just a tad safer. Its not a race, after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003z Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Mike (2003Z)' date=' is that the world famous snot rocket in your sig? If so, you got a nice car at a good price. I couldn't figure out why Marty wanted to sell it.....especially for a meotter. jt[/quote']JT, It certainly is, although its gone through a couple changes since then, the first being a wash and wax! Its now sporting 4 wheel discs, an eiback/tokico spring combo, illuminas and zg flares. Next stop, power department. I want to rev over 4700 rpms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003z Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 oh yeah, I put one of bjhines' wheels on my rear and I had about 4.5 fingers clearance to the wheel well (flares are on but fenders aren't rolled or cut yet), and his tires definitely would have rubbed when suspension bottomed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildky Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Ohh... and +4 offset makes the wheels sit closer to the centerline of the car...NOT OUTSIDE....I am sure that anyone running a ZERO offset wheel will have to cut' date=' bash, or pry away even MORE OF THE FENDER LIP to fit 225/50/15s.... as mine sits...I have lowered the car 2"s and the tires fit without ruining the fender lips...just a neat roll up of the upper lip in the REAR ONLY...completely invisible from outside.[/quote'] I wasn't thinking yeah the +4 moves the wheel under the car further, I guess your drop is causing the rub? my 225's fit with no rub with ST's and Koni's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 Yup 2003Z, I'm with you... Some of these guys ARE racing even though it is an HPDE... Common sense stays in the pits while some are out timing their laps, during a class no less... That is the main reason I want to get away from HPDEs and buy a race car and just go race. Crazy as it sounds, it is much safer because everyone on the course has a competition license and has been certified to be there. In HPDEs there is to wide a mix... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Mike.... I would disagree with the safety issues... Remember... you can wave off a pass and get back in line.... I know an SCCA chairperson who runs ITS with a 1st gen RX7, 1972 240Z, and a Nissan Pulsar. I have shown him videos of my lapping days HPDE events...and he always pulls out videos from his latest races..... There is a lot of contact in the first few laps of an SCCA ITS race.... The drivers are good...but remember that 80+ cars in widely varying groups all heading for the first turn together is hella scary to even watch...much less drive in....eventually they will sort themselves out into a fast group and a slow group with lots of boring open space between them....It isn't any fun to run by yourself....you really want to be in a group to have fun racing...just not a big group. In other words....If contact is not acceptable to you....you better stay in the fake vintage races...because you will get hit, spun, and pushed around in a typical ITS race.....Ohhh...and if you look at the standings....240Zs are NOT the car to run anymore in ITS....You will win much more with a second gen RX7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 I plan to buy a Spec Miata or a T1 Corvette to race if/ when I go that route. Based on what I've seen and the discussions I've had with others who race, the contact isn't the issue... The LACK of safety gear at these HPDEs and other issues noted previously are the reasons I still say that racing is safer than HPDEs. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 10, 2005 Share Posted November 10, 2005 You will win much more with a second gen RX7 E36 325is. And in 2006 E46 cars are coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted November 10, 2005 Author Share Posted November 10, 2005 Well... no one is holding you back from adding all the safety gear you want....in any class or type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 John, I agree 100% with you, but at DEs it isn't a requirement, which is why they are, in my opinion, more dangerous. I'm building my track car to have all the requirements for safety, including a fire system, fuel cell, and a fairly extensive cage that has already been completed. But you go to these HPDEs and see most of the guys with ZERO safety gear other than a helmet and a long sleeve shirt. And many of them are in widely differing types of cars. Like I said earlier, contact doesn't bother me if you're racing. It's during the DEs. Most of the deaths we've seen at DEs around the country this year have been with people in street cars with ZERO safety gear beyond helmet and longsleeve shirt. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted November 11, 2005 Author Share Posted November 11, 2005 Well...I have seen video of a recent ITS group in which the first lap has multiple hits and cars are spun off course at high speed...... at VIR up the climbing esses...a car swallows a muffler and skids off track right at the top of the hill in his own fluids....he comes back across the track at a very high speed and misses sideswiping another car at speed by centimeters....another car trailing this whole disaster has to brake hard to keep from hitting him at the same time.... I would rate that as DANGEROUS.....and it is common in ITS...I would say it is not so common in an HDPE event..... I just purchased a wrecked 240Z race car that was creamed in the tail by another car....the whole tail clip is moved over 5 inches to the left....the cage held the passenger compartment together...but the driver woke up in the ambulance....In a typical ITS group there will be a dozen "offs" and a dozen "contacts"...before the race is over.... we may see a dozen offs during an entire 2 day HPDE event... actual wrecks are rare..and contact between cars is virtually nonexistant. One reason I care soo much about your fellings on this matter is because I sincerely hope a majority of folks do not see HPDE events this way....I have only attended events run by THSCC and BMWCCA..... I am sure there are some sloppy events being put on out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Rubbing is racing... Rubbing is not HPDEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 Well I don't see any comparison in racing vs. HPDEs. Again, I don't care if someone beats on my race car. However, few cars at HPDEs have nascar doorbars and I've seen ZERO head/neck restraints in any of the classes but the instructors. I'm not downplaying the dangers of racing. Just saying that racing has a degree of safety dictated by the equipment. Do an Audi Club event, or Mazdadrivers event and you'll see much more problems with contact. THSCC put on a top rate class when I was there in February and I'd run with them again. However, HPDEs are in general more of a risk to me, since 75% of the drivers in most groups are not grouped properly, raising the risk of danger. Add to that the lack of safety gear and things go far south in a hurry. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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