zero Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 So today I installed my new coilovers. I finished around 8pm, ate dinner, took a shower and then went for a bit of a test ride around 10pm. So about a mile from my house, after a very bumpy road, I get a relatively loud squeaky noise from the rear of my car, so i decide to turn around and head home. As the road I was on was not suitable for a u-turn, I make my next right onto a relatively unfamiliar road with the intention of getting back to the road I was on. about 100 feet from the corner I turned at there was a large unmarked construction bump which, due to the fact that it was night and Z headlights aren't the brightest, I hit at 15-20 because I had no idea it was there. Definately faster than I would have driven over it normally, but nothing I would consider illegal. So I make my next right and continue toward where I came from. after making the right, a cop turns onto the street and pulls me over. He takes my papers and heads back to his car, saying nothing other than asking me for my papers. He returns 20 minutes later, ticket in hand. Says "the speed limit here is 25, you were going faster than that" I say " excuse me officer, I really dont believe I was going that fast. That bump took me by surprize but I dont think I was speeding." He says " You were going faster than 25, I could tell. And I saw you driving fast through here earlier this evening." I say "excuse me officer, but I just got my car back on the road I was working on it all day today, I have driven this for about 10 minutes and was just taking it for a test ride. I haven't been here earlier this evening, you can call my father and ask if you dont believe me." He says " I saw you earlier. You're from newark, what are you doing around here (orange, nj)." I say " I live vailsburg, near south orange. I was just testing my car out after having worked on it all day." After that he basically just handed me the ticket and left. The ticket is for careless driving. No price on it and mandatory court date. I really truly believe that I didnt do anything wrong, I wasn't speeding and the fact that the cop thought I was there earlier when I simply was not makes me think i can fight this. My plan was to go to court with my parents, who can vouch that I did not leave the house until a few minutes before I was pulled over, which could discredit the cop's story. What do you guys suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob_racing Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I don't want to be a wet blanket but I have never, ever been able to convince a magistrate that the story a police office tells is wrong. Basically, their word is golden. The best you could reasonably hope for is to plead your case and ask for the infraction to be reduced down to something less serious in the hopes of not getting this on your driving record. Tell them that you're willing to pay the normal fine and that you just want a break on the type of ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I don't want to be a wet blanket but I have never, ever been able to convince a magistrate that the story a police office tells is wrong. Basically, their word is golden. The best you could reasonably hope for is to plead your case and ask for the infraction to be reduced down to something less serious in the hopes of not getting this on your driving record. Tell them that you're willing to pay the normal fine and that you just want a break on the type of ticket. Tell that to Mike Kelly. zero- there have been a couple threads about fighting tickets in the past couple months. Doesn't sound like the cop radared you or anything, and it seems pretty clear that the fact that he thought he saw you earlier had something to do with why you were pulled over. I'd fight it. I'd also search and read up on the "Mike Kelly Manual for Avoiding Prosecution". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mason4300 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 oooh...bastard. There are a few jacka$$es like that in my town, but my dad almost always goes to court over crap like that, and he gets the cops to back off. Of course, he knows all the city officials by working with them occasionally, so its a bit easier for him, cause they all know my dad isn't an idiot driver. I hope you can get this taken care of man, good luck to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 You can fight that based on the fact that you were not there earlier.. therefore the cop's story has a gaping hole in the first place... The fact that you had to wait 20 minutes for him to clear you means that he was obviously holding you for the maximum time limit... This is a clear case of harassment... I have gone to traffic court and simply talked to the DA.. who then talked to the officer... with the understanding that if he did not drop it.. I would countinue and come back with a lawyer next time... That officer can get in a lot of trouble for harrassing people based on age, color, sex, or the type of car they drive... He will back down... if not a lawyer can hand him his ass in court... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbk240z Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Fight it man!!! You at least have a good chance of being victorious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lvcien Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 my brother got a ticket once where a cop "thought he was speeding" because he "saw" him speeding through there around two... My brother had worked all day, and brought in the videos from the security cameras to prove that he couldn't have been there at two -- due to a timestamp on the film... the cop also said he didn't get a real good look at him since it was dusk and it may not have been the same car, after being hit with that... funny stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rags Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Will, First thing I would do is see if the construction site is marked stating that the speed limit is reduced because of rough road surface. If not, then I would say his careless driving is not valid. I am of the impression that a "careless driving" ticket is an open ended ticket for the police to make up anything they want. I got a careless driving ticket once because I questioned why I was being stopped and when the officer realized I was not the one breaking the law, (three cars in front of me did) I got a careless driving ticket. I went to court and had it reduced. In NJ there is someting called an "unsafe driving" ticket. It was created for no other reason than for the municipality to collect the fine without having your driving record marked. If you don't want to take the chance of losing in court, I'd ask the prosecuting attorney to have it reduced to that ticket. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 well there was no active construction site. From what I could tell it was just a very quick and lazy repair of a road or something. In any case there were no signs or anything. I am currently trying to decide whether I should try to have it reduced or to fight it. I realize that it will come down to my word against the cops, so its kinda tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnjdragracing Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 What do have to loose? I would fight it. John well there was no active construction site. From what I could tell it was just a very quick and lazy repair of a road or something. In any case there were no signs or anything. I am currently trying to decide whether I should try to have it reduced or to fight it. I realize that it will come down to my word against the cops, so its kinda tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ-E Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I would fight the ticket period. I had a cop who had basically a hard on for my car, even went as far as to say that it looked fast just sitting still. Well though I was in the wrong at the time, the fact is he could no prove it. When I questioned him and where he saw me, he changed where he was 3 different times. Tried to give me a speeding and wreckless driving ticket for moving in and out of traffic. All I did was pull around one car, which was two lane changes, though I was speeding a bit, he had no radar record to prove it. I paid the fine but recieved no points. If you tell them or at least argue that point, pay the fine, the money is what they want anyway, and go with a no points on yoru record. Im sure you will come out fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Yea, I'm mainly hoping to come out with no points, because insurance on a 19 year old male in jersey is bad enough as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobythevan Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I would go into court with these thoughts: If he didn't radar you or follow you to determine speed, then what is his case?? Driving too fast for unposted conditions? Again, what was your documented speed? Are his eyeballs calibrated, if so maybe he works at baseball games calling pitch speeds in his off time. But then I don't do very well in court so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280z1975 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 What do have to loose? I would fight it. John I once fought a bull$hit ticket (a noise violation) where we were cited for waking up a neighbor laughing duing a slide show my friend put together for another friends birthday party. We went to court and had the $160USD ticket reduced to $100 bucks (a small victory),but for required to pay $80 in court costs! Stupid court system. But I would fight it and bring in some proof that you were working on the car. A signed affidavit or your father in court would be best. Then prove that the cop wrote you a ticket for no other reason that to "get you" because he thought you were someone else whom he couldn't ticket earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIBPreacher Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 This is what I suggest, I hope it helps. Take a camera and take good pictures of the area that was being worked on. Take a far away shot to show no signs posted, Take a closer shot to show the turn you were about to take, take another shot to show the bump you hit and come to court with your parents or atleast your dad. Your father's presence will do more for you then an affidavit, the pictures, taken in the broad daylight, being shown to the judge and then ask him to consider this happened at night and how you were trying to turn around and head back after hearing problems on your car. Point out with respect that the officer gave you a ticket while it was dark regarding an action that must be seen. All he could have saw was the quick bump in the light flow from your headlights. If the bump wasnt marked with a sign how could you expect to avoid it. All ways use Yes Sir, or Yes Ma'am or No Sir, or No Ma'am. Get a respectable haircut. Put your church clothes on your Mom bought you last year. Make sure you shaved. Dont say the officer is lying, just show reasonable doubt that he could be mistaken since he thought you were someone else from Newark. Respect will get you far. All that together and you should win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 When you're in court, get him to say that he saw you driving earlier. Do not elude to anything else. When he says "yes, he was driving through the area earlier," simply then tell the judge that you had been working on the car throughout the day and it had only been on the street for the past few minutes. Also present pictures of the bump (preferably in the dark) to also prove that you were not driving recklessly, as the construction obstacle was not marked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Oh boy...back to the police and unfair treatment...this is a very unfortunate and terribly common re-occurence. bro...fight it man....the way to fight a ticket is as follows, trust me I have done it plenty, had vehicles threatened to be confiscated and many threats to have my licence pulled for several years...all won...: 1) Clean your act-up and I mean shirt and tie and look like Hugh Grant..not like Grizzly Adams. The judge and magistrate always make decisions on how you "look" - trust me on that - appearance, and they hate guys that give attitude and appear to be thugs or wannabe thugs. 2) Be articulate..! 3) Have a chronology of the events of that evening. Explain everything, your low speed, the construction, the fact you just were taking the car for a quick test drive after being off the road for XXX weeks etc..ALSO make sure you tell them its a 30+ year old car, they will potentially sympathize with you due to the age of the car and if you're lucky they might remember owning a Z back in the day plus you will not be grouped with the typical Honda guys that go through the court systems everyday for acting like jackasses on the road. 4) Be articulate. Good luck and stick it to them If you want me to fly out to represent you...let me know. Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I freaking HATE cops...and they can kiss my royal ass....I hope every cop is reading this....yes you can kiss my royal....OK....breathe...breathe.Yasin Easy, we have more than a few members that are police officers. Davy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Ok post edited and toned down appropriately.......well to backpedal and let me clarify I hate cops that behave in such a manner they do not use their best judgement when it comes to these issues such as Zero's position and also those who stereotype on what cars people drive....read my post "Coming home and getting pulled over twice in 10minutes" Its police officers like these give the force a bad name and very poor public perception. I do apologize to those officers that pride themselves in using better judgement and common sense. Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 3, 2006 Author Share Posted August 3, 2006 UPDATE So yesterday I went to court. When I got there I waited for my turn with the prosecutor. Once I finally got to see her, she looked at my information, and based on my clean record, she offered to bump my ticket from careless driving to obstructing, which is a 55 dollar ticket with no points. Because this was significantly less than what I was expecting to be offered, (unsafe driving, which is 400 or so with no points) I buckled and accepted the offer. As much as I wanted to fight the ticket, it was hard to argue with her offer, and I would have paid more than that in court fees anyway. After I went to see the judge, I was glad not to have been fighting it anyway. The judge seemed to be in a very bad mood. Most notably, when handing down a $400 fine to a young woman, he said,"payment is due by 7 tonite" she responded saying she didnt have it and asked for more time, which, considering he had given other people more time earlier in the day, seemed to be a reasonable request. after a little back and fourth, he ended the conversation by saying "you can make some calls from outside or from a cell" so she walked out to make her calls. After she crossed the barrier between the front and rear of the court she muttered something to herself under her breath, at which point the judge yelled for her to return to the bench. He reprimanded her and slapped an additional $50 to her fine. I know that she should have just kept quite but man that was rough. So anyway, I am happy to be out of there with no points and a reasonable fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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