Racin_Jason Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 Well the deal went through and I will have the option to buy the car on Wed! http://www.jasonshobbyshowcase.homestead.com/240z.html So far i know to check for RUST (hatch area,floor,framerails,under battery) and verify that the sunroof doesnt leak (im going to garden hose it). PLZ warn me of anything that should be looked at. Im worried about function, rust and BIG repair costs...not looks. More info here also http://24.4.88.29/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000597.html Im about to become one of the few, the proud the HYBRID Z OWNERS. BUT i only want to do it IF the car is right for me. Im all ears..help! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 Jason, Congrats on the possible purchase of the car. About it being right for you; that is a decision you'll have to make. Keep in mind; there isnt one Z swap in this forum that was a "CHEAP" swap. Even the inexpensive swaps have to have the same basic hardware one needs to have a 10 second car. The thing to remember is: When buying the car (W/Without?) the engine, is, The hard work has been done for you on this car. If you are buying it w/out the eng/trans then keep in mind the car is not a Pristine car. He will have a hard time selling that car for anything of value as it's stock appearance & functionality has been greatly altered. Most people are "SCARED STIFF" of a V8Z prepped car....so dont overbid! Most Importantly; keep this in mind. Lets say you purchase the car, build your engine/trans & the install goes flawlessly only to have the car begin to rust a year from now or something you dont like about it occurs....you still have the car as a parts car. You can always pull the eng/trans to be used in another Z. So dont be to hesitant; HAVE FUN & DONT OVERBID! Ask the owner how many other serious bids has he received? How long has it been up for sale? If he wont budge on the price/ask him if the car is that valuable why is he selling it? Remind him of what he already knows...the car was only valuable w/a running drivetrain. Other than that you have to approach the car as a "SALVAGE YARD" car only. Give a little consideration in price for the mod's he's made to the suspension; unless you dont like the mod's he's made...then tell him so (Respectfully) & remind him what you're gonna have to do to get the car to perform properly! Each time he mentions something good about the car-you counter w/something you dont like about the car. Say he mentions the primer, "Hey all you have to do is Paint the Car"! You counter with, "Yea, buts its been in primer for a long time...possible rust & any paint shop knows they will have to sand/reprimer prior to painting"! Say he goes on about the Lowered Body then you can counter with, "Yea but those are cut springs-I'm gonna have to replace them w/after market Springs to get the fell corrected!" You get the idea. Haggle, Haggle, Haggle....but do it in a respectful manner that leaves the guy w/his Humility. Dont ever cop an attitude when buying or selling a used car. It's all a game...so just remember to have fun! Kevin (Yes,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 Before you go through with it take a look at other 240's with out the conversion... I am willing to bet that for what this guy wants for the chasis you can find a really nice 240 that hasn't been butchered... This is a clean looking car, but you are in prime country for z cars.. they don't really rust where you are... Even look at non running cars, I hate to take over someone else's project you never know what you are going to find... If you start with a stock, origional car you will still have the normal Datsun Problems but you won't have to fix other peoples stuff. Now I don't know this guy but I have looked at alot of z's and you can get a clean stock Z and then modify it very easily. Other than the motor and the tires and wheels there didn't look to be anything great about the car, and you have already said that you don't get either of those.. Take all the stuff you like about the car the tach, struts and what ever else and add up the cost of all those items. Then divide by 2, used stuff is worth half of what new is... then take all that and subtract it from what he wants... that will put you in the balpark for looking at other cars without the conversion.. the first rule of hot rodding buy the best car you can afford..... This may be a hell of a ride, most v8z'z are but be reasonable can you buy a cleaner better car that hasn't been converted and convert it cheeper than this one???? You are still going to have to buy a motor, trans and a r200. Why not start with a car that has all the interior and usable paint??? Later ------------------ Remember it is only a piece of metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 I was trying to be nice and here comes Andrew being totally honest.... I agree you should be able to pickup a clean 240 for about 500$ alot cleaner than that one... Now I am not a good example but it took me almost a year of looking for a car to find one, look you are in prime ground for Z cars check the tow yards the donation places where people go for a tax right off etc... Anywhere place an add in the paper... You will be shocked how many Z cars are out there... Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 Racin/Jason, Andrew gave a dollar figure for what I was hinting at when I said dont offer anything more than "Salvage Yard" prices. I dont know what car's are going for in Sunny-Cal but (Personally) I was thinking more along the lines of $250 to $400...& not a penny more!!!!! Like Andrew said; if the car was in such great condition why did he let the primer job sit for so long(?). You dont know this guy from Adam (or do you?) so dont believe him when he says..."There's no rust". If you want the car...get the car; but...& this is a "B-I-G B-U-T-T" do not overpay! If you underpay for the car, you will have nothing to worry about if it does become a Rust Bucket. Everything you put into it Mechanically Speaking can be canabalized to go into another Z. Look at it as a Car to Learn from....but dont overpay! But, I insist....dont pay anything more than Salvage Yard Prices! I also agree that you are in Prime Territory for Z's. Go do a search for 240/260/280z's at the Auto Trader Search. You will be surprised how many Z's are in your neck of the woods that may only be an hours drive away. When I began looking for my Z, I found so many Z's in the California/Arizona area that had minor eng.prob's but still ran & their paint/body looked better than the car you are looking at; they were also in original unbutchered condition. Dont get in a hurry to buy this car; if you want it...get it....BUT DONT OVERPAY! Kevin, (Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
383 240z Posted March 6, 2001 Share Posted March 6, 2001 Congrats on finding a good car (?) please check it out very cafully I just had to scrap my 1974.5 260z due to rust carefully hidden by undercoating But I salvaged some good parts from it but my wife still bitches about it to me! Please don't make the same mistake. Of course I didn't do much better on my next purchase(I'm SO envious of you guys in the southwest) A decent 1973 240z that needs a battery tray about 11" of left frame rail outer rocker skins all this for the tidy sum of $1500 and this was the best one I could find after about 1 year of searching (Sorry I had to vent) Boston is a hard place to find rust free!b ------------------ rx7260z@yahoo.com Speed Power Performance& Style. What else is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavyZ Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Listen carefully to what Andrew has told you. I know the 240Z's are the most desireable because they are smog exempt, but the 260Z's and 280Z's can be made smog legal if you follow JTR's advice. Bring a magnet with you to check the bodywork for mondo bondo. And remember, there are always more fish in the sea, so don't feel like crap if he doesn't accept your offer! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geno Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 jason,listen to these. guys .i paid $1300.00 for my first z that ended up in the junkyard becuase of the rust it had since then i bought a solid parts car for 60$ a 280 for 400$ and my 260 for 500$ that only needed a battery and i drove from texas to chicago with no problems. whatever you do haggle like crazy cuz i know you can get them for a decent price dont spend what you dont have to!!! in my opinion that car is worth the most 400$ good luck Geno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin_Jason Posted March 7, 2001 Author Share Posted March 7, 2001 Wow. You all are really making me second guess this purchase. I'm paranoid now about just practically everything about this car. It seems the car is very sub-standard compared to what many of you see available. (thank you for your honesty..thats what i asked for) If there are so many Z's at great prices in SoCA i'd sure like to know where they are. Ive been looking online and in the papers for a month+ now and theres only ONE other one in that time frame that was cheap ($1000..and SOLD). There were a couple others in the 1650-1950 range then they shoot up to 2500+ with a couple at 8000 and 12,500! The $1000 dollar one did look to be in ALITTLE better shape but it had lots of dents and is 6cyl. The reason why this car seems a great way to go for me is because its already converted. Im not scared (much) of doing a conversion..but its costs! The driveshaft,radiator,mounts, speedo cable..etc is $1000+. This whole car isnt even that much and it already has it all. I already have a 350 with a th350 to drop in it..and it has EVERYTHING else it needs to be a cruiser. My train of thought is i could have a 13second car..for alittle over $1000! (Sounds like a miracle to me!) That is the ONLY reason Im even considering doing a Z-8 now because,otherwise,I just couldnt afford it (Camaro+new house=broke). Maybe it would be better for me to just wait and buy a cleaner car and spend more money to convert it..but that kind of money is along way off, and Im not sure I'd even get there (family..kids..)! I'm still going to go have a good long look at this car..and probably buy it as long as i dont find any major cancer or other issues. I honestly ENJOY fixing up cars. I would rebuild the doorpanels and lay new carpet and a dash cap, etc. Its fun and more satisfying to me to watch the car get nicer by my own hand and end up being cheaper with NEW stuff I installed. Also, IMO, it doesnt have to be nice..i think a 'well-used' car has character. I can enjoy it more because im not busy worrying about scratchin this and scuffing that. My opinion...my car The hidden rust worries me the MOST by far. I have no way of knowing exactly whats under that primer (i will take a magnet with me) and the fact that it absorbs moisture isnt reassuring. I figure if it does start to fall apart i can just find another one and slap the drivetrain in it. Anyway to check the health of the brakes? He says the 406 doesn't have enough vacuum for them and it stops poorly. Anyway to verify this IS the problem. Also he is including all the parts for the Toy4x4 brake upgrade too so that will help. I know theres no such thing as a perfect Z..especially in ths price range. I just wish I was getting alittle better vibe from the people who know these cars so well. Oh well, only I can see it and make the decision. I just want to be armed with as much knowledge about the possible issues as possible. Thanks so much for all you help! PLEASE keep posting what to check on/watch out for. This is happening soon and I need to be prepared to do a complete analysis. Racing "Fugly-Z" Jason [This message has been edited by Racin_Jason (edited March 06, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Bayley Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Jason, I've been reading your progress towards purchasing this car lately. Very interesting. I have been in that same situation myself a few times. I hope you don't mind me sharing some comments, some might sound a little brutal. First, Let's get down to the bottom line. What does he want for the car money wise? You don't have to answer this, as I know you have posted pictures and I would hate to see this potentially get bought out underneath you. When I look at the car, I personally cannot imagine paying more than $1000 for this. This is top dollar too. Believe me, I'd be trying like hell to get it for $500. I don't think an offer of $500 for the rolling chassis would be insulting. Think of what you are getting (or aren't getting): You get- 1) A body that has primer paint. This primer can be hiding two things. Remarkable body work, or... RUST!!! Most people who put any sort of time and effort into decent body work, would not let it sit. This says to me that there are a lot of skeleton's in this Z's closet. 2) A ratty interior that is chopped to all hell. If the interior was kept up this poorly, why would the exterior have been treated any differently? You don't get- 3) A motor. Since you are going with a conversion, this isn't a big deal. Small Chevy's are a dime a dozen. 4) Transmission. Again, no biggie. An overdrive will cost more, and a non-overdrive tranny is still live-able on the side streets. 5) Rear End. This is no big deal either, but now we need to start asking ourselves; "How much do I want to add to this?" 6) An interior. Another item that you will find yourself running to and from junk yards for. Ask yourself: "Do I want to DRIVE a V8Z, or BUILD one?" Bottom line: I personally don't think this is that great of a deal. Please don't hate me, I'm just offering you my honest, god-fearing, unbiased opinion. If the body looked wavy to me, I'd offer $500. If the body was DEAD straight (and I mean dead), it would be worth $1000 to me. If the seller wouldn't come down from a higher price, I'd walk. There are plenty of Z cars in So. Cal. to choose from. Limiting yourself to this Z would be like marrying the first girl you ever made it with. A Z is an extremely easy car to convert to a V8 powertrain. Also, it sounds like you would have to drop a motor in yourself anyway. Don't be scared by the conversion. It takes just one afternoon to setup the engine compartment (once the engine is out) for a V8. Really, it's not that hard. Also, if you get a 280Z... the rear end is already setup for an R200. You really need to ask yourself how much work you want to do. I originally wanted to simply "drive" my V8Z. I made the mistake of buying the first thing I found. This turned out to be a structural (rust) nightmare... but I got it cheap. The next car I found, was out in Arizona. It had a fresh coat of paint on a straight body with a very tired (260,000 miles) motor and trans. I picked it up for $1400 back in 1997. There are plenty of fish in the sea, do not limit yourself to just one tide pool. Get out there and look! Take a drive up to L.A. and see what they got. My opinion: (Car Price < $1000) = maybe sorry for the hard words -Andy P.S. Many V8 Z's with relatively mild small blocks are going low 13's to high 12's. Something that requires racing gas and only goes 12.4's is not very impressive, yI know ou can do better on your own (or with a little bit of help from this group ). [i've got very fat (not phat) fingers today... this is my third time editing this message!] [This message has been edited by Andrew Bayley (edited March 06, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 If you are gonna have $1000 total in the car, then here is what I would do... Buy it, and save your money and read here and elsewhere on how to fix rust and you might want to start scanning the papers and pawn shops for two things: An air compressor (Atleast 6HP and 60 gallons pushing atleast 9cfm...Got mine new at sears onsale for $359) and a nice Mig welder that can weld atleast 1/4 inch steal and very adjustable/ tunable for sheetmetal work. (Should be able to find one for around $300 used) Buy a few books on welding, and autobody repair. I'm here to tell you, it isn't that hard to fix these things with the right tools. Don't let rust scare you. Yes you want to buy the best and cleanest car you can find. Abscent of that, and rest assured the day after you buy this car, clean Zs will fall from the heavens for cheap (They always do), buy this car. These guys all make real good points, but it sounds like you realy want to get going on your project and you like this particular car. Being smog exempt is a good thing and I can certainly relate to avoiding that whole issue. So as long as you are prepared to take the chance and don't want to go broke letting others cut and weld on your car (And usually do a sub-standard job) I'd say get it and plan to learn a few new skills. Mike ------------------ http://hometown.aol.com/dat74z/myhomepage/auto.html "I will not be a spectator in the sport of life!" mjk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Jason, I'll agree with you that inexpensive straight Z's are getting tough to find. My current project, a very rusty 72 240Z, needs to hit the junk yard and be replaced with a straight shell. I travel to Los Angeles on a regular basis and have been looking for a replacement for several months now. The inexpensive cars I've looked at have been either beat to death or have lots of rust. Check the car out thoroughly and if it meets your expectations then buy it. This is all about your perception of what a good deal is. If you believe you got a good deal then you did. ------------------ 1972 240Z - Major Rust Repairs Underway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 7, 2001 Share Posted March 7, 2001 Jason, My cautions were not to make your paranoid; but, were meant to make you aware of any possible short comings so that you can adjust your counter offer if needed. If you've been bitten by the V8Z bug (Who here hasnt) then haggle for the best deal & buy the car......all of us consider each car we have a learning car. Some of us start w/straight cars while others start w/not so straight cars & repair them as we go All projects are to be considered a learning process...till you know that car dont be afraid of it....Just Be aware of its Possible Hidden Treasures (Rust, Cut/Spliced Wires) & adjust your price accordingly. Like I said earlier; haggle for the car & what ever you put in it later, absent body/paint work) you can canabalize for another car if this one turns out not to be the one you want. Haggle for it, Buy it, then learn as you go; if you dont want it in the long run; no worry as you didnt overpay for it to begin with. Like Mike said....as soos as you buy this one-Z's will be falling from the skies. Specially since we are sneaking up on Spring. I've always watched the Auto Traders here in Dallas/Ft.Worth & we will go 2/3 weeks w/out any real contenders....then one week "BANG" there's a dozen of them! If you want it, "Haggle for it, Buy it, Learn from it & most of all HAVE FUN"...dont be paranoid....Just dont overpay for it! Kevin (Yes,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin_Jason Posted March 7, 2001 Author Share Posted March 7, 2001 Welp I just got back from going over the car for an hour uninterrupted and by myself, which helps. I went over the whole car with a magnet and theres only one possible spot on the bottom right of the hatch door that has alot of filler. It does have a slight bit of cancer developing around the back window,but nothing major. I found out it was originally a light metallic green..not the red. I looked in the engine bay very closely and found no rust. I couldnt really see the subframes due to it being so low but from the rest of the car I'd guess they are fine. I checked out the floor on the drivers side only (curb on other side) but it was very solid although alittle bend from misplaced jacks. One plastic headlight bucket has a piece broken off. The hatch weatherstripping is gone to the point that the hatch can be lifted about 1/2" while locked. Hood has dent from carb screw that rusty and a chipped corner thats rusty. Over all the body is pretty straight and I looked at it real close. LOTS of little tiny dents tho (like minor BB size). The sunroof looks factory to me (do they exist?). Its been raining for 3 days and I didnt see a drop inside the car. glass is all perfect. seats are fairly good too. I feel I know the cae well now. Its got ALOT less rust than my Camaro did...lol. It does need alittle work even by my standards but its doable for a first Z-8. I have a price in my head (LOW price) that I'll go up to and if he takes it..its mine. We'll see probably by the end of today Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Shasteen Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Jason, Sounds like you're approaching the purchase of the car properly.....slowly & methodically & above all-DONT OVERPAY. If you think it's half way decent...hope you get it! Just dont overpay & when discussing the price w/the owner dont be afraid to explain how you came up with the price you are offering. I've had some sellers that "Just Picked a Price out of Thin Air" & after I explained to them why I offered what I offered...they thanked me for explaining it too them. And, that's another good point......before you make your counter offer-Ask him how he came up w/his price. Was it a price out of thin air or was there a method to his madness? After he gives you his answer you can then tell him, "Well, this is what I think it is worth & this is why I think that" then you can explain to him how you came up w/the answer. Remember the purchasing system for rating each operating system of the car to determine what price you are going to offer; this will keep you out of trouble. And if he rejects your offer; dont get discouraged; THANK HIM FOR HIS TIME & TROUBLE...wait till next week rolls around & make the offer again! He'll probably accept it by then! Buying cars is a game & you have to go thru the process...both buyer & seller have to play the game or one/both will lose; its just a game...be a player & be a player to WIN! You are an informed BUYER-that makes you dangerous! The ball is now in your court! Good luck. Kevin (Yes,Still an Inliner) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted March 8, 2001 Share Posted March 8, 2001 Jason, i learned from experience. Ask teh owner to let you get it in teh air. then take a small pick hammer underneath and tap under the seat, framrails, and everything else you can get your hands on. if it sounds solid good if it pings, or you have metal flaking off, or the frame rails sound hallow, especially under the battery you may be in for some major cutting and welding. I thought my z was rust free. then 6000.00 later i had all new floor boards. If i could have done it over i would not have bought mine i would have kept shopping. just make sme mad that i could have put that money into the drivetrain if i had be patient and bought a rust free car. and on top of that i may not have gotten all teh rust... only timne will tell. just my 2 $ stony http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/stonehac?d&.intl=us&.flabel=fld3&.src=ph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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