Just bought a Honda - now I'm cool...

[strotter]

As some of you may know, I'm a schoolteacher in a continuation high school in Stockton, Ca. I commute to work about 25 miles round trip, and have recently been doing so in my '72 Z/350/T56 (as my freebee Intrepid died). Surprisingly, the Z has been a pretty good everyday car, given the quality of my workmanship and the temperament of the motor. Last week, however, I picked up a '93 Civic coupe which will, after a motor replacement, be the "car de jour". I've always thought they're handsome little putts, well built, reliable as taxes and economical to boot. Perfect for the everyday grind, with *air conditioning*, mmm, a/c...

 

The reaction among my students, especially the wannabe gearhead types, has been - explosive. Spectacular. Nuclear. Did you know, for instance, that you can make a Civic run 10 second quarters, top 200 mph, and drift, all for hella cheap? Hella cheap! You can put NOS on it hella easy, and that'll make it run 12's, and you can put a cold air kit on it, and that'll make it run 11's, and you can put an intake on it, and then it'll run 10's. And of course 20's, 'cause that'd be just cool, and 'cause the bitches will dig 'em.

 

Did anybody here know about this? Why haven't you told me? I feel like a fool, chasing horsepower with things like camshafts and fuel injection systems and headers and displacement, for goodness sakes, when all I needed was some NOS and a cold air kit and whatnot, and I can have it all, including the, um, you know, ladies.

 

So now I guess I begin a new chapter in my life, now that I have something decent to drive.

[280Zone]

You must be talking 1/8 mile times.

[veritech-z]

No, I heard a 93 civic with NOS could do a FULL mile in 11.3. And that was BEFORE Chuck Norris got in it. Of course, Chuck has an LED exhaust tip on his, so that's probably what made the difference. I saw on the internet that Mr. T recently bought an 89 CRX with get this....a B16 in it! He should be in the 9's by next week.

[JMortensen]

I'm going to pretend it's YOUR fault and ask: What the hell have you been teaching these kids???

[veritech-z]

I think the teaching was going the other way...

 

As a reformed Honda owner, you'll be back. They always come back...

[boodlefoof]

This reminds me of a time when I worked for a moving company. This was a few years back...

 

I was talking to a coworker about the problem he was having with his car. It was a diesel something or another. I asked what he thought was wrong with it and he replied "I think there is something wrong with the distributor or spark plugs..."

 

This sets the stage for our story... (as if that weren't funny enough right?)

 

So we get to talking about cars in general and told him about my '68 Camaro project. He asked "what does it run in the quarter?" I told him that I hadn't had a chance to get it out yet, but that I hoped for low-mid 12s in the 110mph range.

 

To this he replied, "Man, I could smoke you." I asked what he drove... The answer: an early 90s Geo Storm.

 

I asked how fast it ran... he said 11.7. I asked if that was in the 1/8 or the quarter... he said quarter.

 

I said, "well, you must have done quite a bit of work to it."

 

The response: "Yeah, I have. I put on 18s all around, a (brand name here) wing and body kit, a (brand name here) exhaust kit, two (yes... he said two) chips and a double clutch."

 

I pondered for a moment... thinking to myself, "whoever sold you that 'double clutch' must have made a killing..." but I decided just to smile and nod.

 

I said, "I'll tell you what. Why don't we take the cars out to the closest 1/4 mile track. Loser pays the winner's entry fee.

 

Response: "Uhhh, I don't have the car anymore. I had to sell it... I needed the money."

[Kennysgreen280zt]

I liked my honda, untill it got stolen. It was very reliable and great on gas. Enjoy it, and get a club and autolock and an alarm. Im a bit paraniod to get another one.

[strotter]

I'm going to pretend it's YOUR fault and ask: What the hell have you been teaching these kids???

 

JM, I'm way ahead of you on this - I'm thinking this may be one of those "teachable moments" - when something unexpectedly interests the kids, you strike while the iron is hot and teach something worthwhile without their even knowing they're being schooled. After all, a great deal of car stuff is about thinking things through clearly, applying some simplifying principles, and maybe using some formulas appropriately. Math (my subject) is about thinking things through clearly, applying some simplifying principles, and maybe using some formulas appropriately. A bit of logic, a bit of inductive and deductive reasoning, perhaps a demonstration or two...

 

Maybe I can talk my principal into letting me bring the old motor down to my room ... We can start with a little nomenclature, then a few days on measurement, segue into tolerances, perhaps a couple of days on some simple thermodynamics (coordinate with the physical science teacher on that one), a day or two on strength of materials, maybe a little industrial design exercise ("design an intake", "dimension and illustrate the distributor", "design a go-cart using this motor/tranny", things like that).

 

Hmmm. This might actually turn out to be a huge thing for the class of '97...

[b__sosick]

Honda's are cool as long as the owner isn't like "DUDE IM JDM SUPER TYTE YO

[veritech-z]

Did you just say the class of '97?

[Challenger]

You must be talking 1/8 mile times.

 

More like reaction times.

 

I've always wondered where this "tuner" car fad came from. Im a sophmore and everyone talks about theyre Hondas and scions and some weird korean cars Ive never heard of.

 

They say "Ohh, this friend of mine has a Crx with the body kit and everthing, he said he has street glow, 8 inch monitors(for performance) clear taillights, and COLD AIR INTAKE!! HE put on a muffler that sound awesome!!!! It looks like an all out street race car." ???? Does a loud sound that ressembles a Cell phone vibrating across a metal chair define performance?

 

I absolutly hate it. Oh I forgot it had stickers.....

[jbk240z]

those vinyl stickers!!! They are reported to add at least 5 h.p. each! The APC and HKS stickers are worth 10 h.p.!!!! Yo! My VTEC just kicked in, I gotta go YO!

[NCchris]

Honda's are cool as long as the owner isn't like "DUDE IM JDM SUPER TYTE YO

 

That is what has turned me against the Honda community as a whole. The cars themselves are a good value, easy to mod, and have a lot of aftermarket support. My last project was a 90 CRX, DOHC swap, suspension, brakes, etc. Basically a 2000lb+ go-kart. My dd is a 94 Integra GSR (wid Vetech yo) and my wife likes her Accord. For my next project I thought I'd do something a little more mature. I wanted a Z in 1970 when I saw my first one and have wanted a first gen Z every since. Opps...... just dated myself, guess I need to shut up!

chris

[b__sosick]

hahaha

the real honda tech guys that know their stuff are just as fun to hang out with as hybridz'ers.

 

 

 

plus they usually get better gas mileage :

[veritech-z]

A buddy of mine at work is waiting for his B16 cylinder head to come back from JG so he can put it on the sleeved and overbored to 84mm block, and get his (hopefully) 500hp daily driver back on the road. I think he may need a new turbo to do it, but it's possible to find people that are building real performance in the honda crowd, you just have to look. A guy I know was making 700+ hp to the wheels off a turbo GS-R engine in a late body CRX. He sold the shell and kept the engine, but he ended up closing his shop to drive trucks. I haven't heard if he's still doing anything with that motor or not.

[zguy95135]

Dont hate on the hondas since I have one now, well its an Acura but pretty much the same thing. Just remember that vinyl stickers or JDM = uber fast

 

[strotter]

OK, a bit of a followup here -

 

I've been looking around the 'web for information about rebuilding Honda motors - something like a "Tips and Tricks" for Honda motors, things to watch out for, common mistakes, that kind of thing, in case I can't find a really great deal on a used motor. So I searched for "Honda/engine/rebuild", then "Honda/rebuilding", then "D15b7/rebuild", so on. Checked lots of variations on that theme.

 

But, 99.9% of what I came across was total, well, crap. Forums with questions like "If I take out my air filter, will my car be faster?" (followed by quite a bit of serious discussion with *no* resolution), websites selling things that will gain you "30 HP WITH 10 MINUTES WORK!!!!!!!", plenty of clothes and seat covers and tinting kits and wheels - lots and lots of wheels! It was depressing. Also, it seems that only a real pussy rolls with less than 300 hp, duh, and anyone with half a brain can (with only a bit of care) generate 500, 600, 700 hp out of their less-than-2-liter mill. Seriously. *And* drive it to work every day, for years and years. *AND* get 35 mpg (if they're careful).

 

I suppose I'm just spoiled - by this site (thanks guys!), by my background and education, by my age (pre-internet youth). Perhaps I'm just being intolerant, but the whole thing just makes me feel cynical - and it makes me feel sorry for the guys just coming up. I mean, without an accurately calibrated crap-o-meter, how are these guys going to pick out the worthwhile stuff? How can they calibrate said tool when just about everything they come across is waste? And how long are they going to have to work to toss the B.S. they'll inadvertently pick up in the process of finding TEH goods? Their road will be much more difficult than mine.

 

Turning wrenches has been a source of income for me (briefly, some years ago), a huge money-saver, and an endlessly fascinating pastime. In this age when communication is more easily available to anyone than ever before in history, it's reprehensible how little *good* information is available.

 

I'm definitely going to work this thing into my classes.

[strotter]

OK, here's more. Lots of these people online seems to know somebody else who has a car that can [insert ridiculous performance behavior here]. 800 hp, 10-second quarters, 200 mph top speed, etc etc etc. However, very few people seem to actually do with these cars what is implied in all these stories: that is, actually drive the car around *as if it were a car*. A car, that is, a street car, has to do a few of things to earn that name: it has to run reliably (within limits), it has to transport a person from point A to point B on a near-daily basis, and it has to be in a condition such that, if pulled over by the local P.D., will be found to be safe enough to continue on its' way. I have the impression that many of the vehicles we hear about on the 'web (and occasionally here on HZ) are what were referred to in the past as "trailer queens" or "garage queens", the former meaning it was pretty but didn't roll, the latter meaning it was so overbuilt it rarely made it onto the street. Both conditions disqualified the vehicle as a "car".

 

BACK IN THE DAY, when someone made a claim to some kind of performance, it was generally while they were standing in front of the car - and thus such a claim could be immediately tested. As a matter of fact, the claim *itself* was an invitation to test. I'm thinking back, way way back, and remember this clearly. Saying "My car will run 12.5" would generally garner an immediate reply of "OK, let's go!", and off we'd caravan to some pitch black and seldom travelled back road where we'd find out if it really could run an 12.5. Needless to say, people were loathe to make claims they couldn't back up - and repeatedly making such claims garnered that person title of "squid", which nowadays around here refers to motorcyclists of a certain type but which then referred to somebody who made exaggerated or extravagant claims.

 

If ever somebody said "I know this guy that has this car that'll ... [ridiculous claim]...", somebody in the crowd (usually me) would pipe up with "Well it ain't out here, so bulls**t." If the car wasn't there, or if somebody in the immediate area hadn't seen it in action recently, it didn't count. This automatically eliminated garage queens, professional drag cars, unreliable overbuilt machinery of any type, the lot. If it couldn't get itself out to the local drag, run up and down the street for a couple of hours without overheating, and *then* perform some miracle of backyard-manufactured performance, it wasn't a car, it was a story. And nobody had any respect for a story. There was a built-in cynicism which is critical to differentiating "awesome fact" from "total bulls**t", something which seems to be distinctly lacking from many of the younger or more naive gearheads I come across.

 

Much of what I see on the 'web has the aura of Urban Myth. Yeah, I'm sure some guy got 600 hp out of his Celica - but did he then drive that car to work for the next six months? If not, it's a garage queen. Heck, I know of guys that get 10,000+ hp out of old-fashioned American V8's - they're called "Top Fuelers", but they only do it for 4 seconds. They're not *cars*.

 

URF!

[veritech-z]

My civic friend should have his head back next week sometime, and he plans to daily drive around 500hp. I'll be sure and let you know how that works out for him. My other buddy driving a turbo saturn is daily driving a 330hp saturn, and so far it's holding up ok. His friend has one too, and referes to his CV axles as "fuses" because they tend to go out before anything "important."

 

I'm right behind you when you say that these kids have no reference in reality, and the most of what they know about building cars came from Gran Turismo 4. Whenever somebody tells me they are getting a "Stage IV turbo", and I ask them "what does that mean?" or when they say "so and so has a "fully built" engine" and I say "what do you mean by "fully built"," they never know. It drives me crazy. I just gave up trying to educate people I know. They always go to the internet, or "some guy" and get advice, then do what that person said, and then they ask me or another friend of mine with some decent car knowledge. Of course we tell them what we think, which is totally opposite of what this other person said, and I'm like: "why do you waste my time asking for advice if you are just going to disregard it?"

 

I think it would be great if you would explain to these kids that there is more to driveability than numbers. It IS possible to get those kinds of numbers from a Honda engine, but it is NOT likely that those cars are driven daily at that level of tune. Those cars are now refered to as "dyno queens" that put down huge numbers, but then you turn down the boost controller and drive around at more sane levels. A honda engine like that is on the ragged end of performance, where the slightest thing is enough to do it in. Mostly they have two speeds: On and Off. There really is no replacement for displacement when it comes to a well rounded street engine.

[Sven]

Strotter, I feel your pain. As a guy who's in his 30's, I unfortunately must let the young guys here know that B.S., particularly when combined with cars, is nothing new. It is something that has infuriated me since, well... as long as I've been into cars. I have no idea why it is such a big phenomena. It isn't limited to rice-boi-gtr or the hot rod guys. I'm sure it even exists in the Volvo and Hyundai performance world (did I just say that?).

 

Maybe 1/3 of the time it's just innocent dummies, who want to believe they have a car that is soopa-fast. -Harmless, but also clueless. The other 2/3 are attempting to pull one over on everyone. They tend to rely on that other third. They will not immediately recognize that you know something, and will blindly continue on if you don't give any indication.

 

These guys are easy to spot by their behavior around what I like to call the "old guard" (the old guys that have breathed this stuff since the 50's or 60's) . They usually just keep their mouth shut, and soak up every little detail they can get from the guys that have been there, and regurgitate upon those that know less to impress.

 

The key is to know more. Be well rounded. You can always spot them if you a little about everything. Pick up Hot Rod or PHR. Read it. Don't shy away from Sport & Compact, Grassroots Motorsport, or Hot VW's. Hell, keep track of 4x4 stuff too. It all is related, and can eventually help you to make what you want.

 

The end benefit of screening the douches? You find the real guys. Never underestimate the importance of surrounding yourself with good people. The guys that aren't full of it, are also the guys that will end up helping you when you need a hand. They will not be the ones that suggest some cock-a-mamy fix, and leave when everything goes wrong.