Administrators BRAAP Posted October 11, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 11, 2006 Justin Olson summed it up best. The VLSD is fine for straight-line, but not worth a crap if you want to drive spiritedly in the corners. (I apologize to Justin for twisting his words around, but that is exactly how I see it.) Anyone wanting a VLSD that does intend to use the car for spirited cornering or aggressive cornering, please do yourself a big favor. Go drive a 240SX, a Z-32, or a Q-45 with the VLSD and toss it around a few corners spiritedly, not 10 tenths, just 5-7 tenths or so and try to put some power down. The inside tire WILL spin! My first hand experience with this is my Q-45. For straight line only, it keeps both tires spinning just fine, but in a mild corner, it acts like a peg leg and will spin the inside tire, especially the first couple of corners in a series of corners, it acts just like an open diff. It does tighten up a “little” as it heats up, but it never really gets to the point I would call truly acceptable or worthy for a performance application. This attribute of the VLSD tightening up as it heats up is an attribute that you do NOT want in a limited slip diff. The Nissan VLSD is VERY sensitive to heat. It works marginally ok when it is heated up, but who is going to drive around with one tire in the dirt and the other on pavement to “warm up” their diff before they want to drive spiritedly. If you want a limited slip for improved traction exiting a corner, it really needs to be somewhat consistent from the first corner to the last corner during that drive session or track session. For straight-line at the strip, the VLSD is just fine, but for a street car that turns left and right with authority, either go Quaife or at least a clutch pack LSD. Now my rant on this whole R-230 Love affair… Yes, the R-230 is pretty much bullet proof, but so is the R-200. I have seen a LOT of enthusiasm lately for wanting to install the R-230 in 11 and 12 second street Z cars. JNJ has proven time and again that the R-200 in a full race application, doing huge wheel stands with 1.3 second 60 foot times, low 9’s in the ¼ ,(that means it is hooking up and loading the diff WAY more than any street tire shod street driven Z EVER will), the R-200 can take a lot of abuse. Why add the extra weight of the R230 when its extra girth really isn’t needed in a street car to begin with? If the street car will do wheel stands and you want to keep “Datsun IRS”, that makes sense. But not for 12 or even a low 11 second street car. Sorry, I haven’t seen any evidence proving that the R-200 is NOT up to that task. I’ve only seen evidence showing that the R-200 is tough enough for any street car that can not lift its front tires at launch. That’s my $.02 Paul Ruschman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinOlson Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 It looks that the price on the R230 quaifes is very good right now. This is the only supplier in the US that sells them $1450: http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/price/Nissan/300ZX/Quaife/Drivetrain/Differentials/part/A.T.B http://www.quaifeamerica.com/differentials/diff_apps.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I'm leaning heavily toward keeping my R200 and installing a new Power Brute carrier. It's currently an open diff, which I definitely don't want. This is a daily driver but I want it to hook hard every time on straight line take-offs. I'm not doing any hard cornering or street racing or any of that because I'm a boring old man. I do want this diff to play nicely for docile street driving though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 11, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 11, 2006 I'd like to see some factual information to back up your statements.... LARRY Larry, All I can say is drive a car that has one. I've driven a number of them (Z32 Turbo and NA, J30's and Q45). They (VSLD's) just don't impress me much. They take way too long to begin their lock-up and when they do its 'soft'. They're built for production cars... not race cars, IMO. Sorry, I don't have facts, necessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ron, I'm not picking a fight here, just my experience. I've got the Q45 diff in a lt-1 powered 240Z. I've done track days with this set up for 8 or 9 years on the same diff. It has held very well and it does not just spin the inside tire. I typically steer with the throttle. It will leave nice strips anywhere. This diff in a 2600 lb car is a hoot. That said, I'm building a dedicated track car and it has a clutch type r200 lsd. The weight and expense of the conversion was just not worth it for me on another car. The first one was done because someone told me it would not work. He was wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 11, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 11, 2006 Ron, I'm not picking a fight here, just my experience. Mark, Ouch... thats gonna leave a bruise OK seriously, everyone has their preferences. If we all drove the same, it would be no fun. In my (reasonable) experience, there is no one that could convince me to install a VLSD in my car. Period. No offense. It very well may work for you. I believe you. I also believe it will NOT work for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Mark, I also believe it will NOT work for me. One size does not fit all, that is for sure. I'm looking foward to testing the clutch lsd on the track and learning the differences between the two at speed. Hopfully it will be before I'm too old to enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted October 11, 2006 Administrators Share Posted October 11, 2006 One size does not fit all, that is for sure. I'm looking foward to testing the clutch lsd on the track and learning the differences between the two at speed. Hopfully it will be before I'm too old to enjoy it. Mark, I was going to add this to my post before you responded so I'll just insert it here... FWIW, regarding clutch-pack LSD’s, I re-cut ramp angles, add clutches, and re-shim. I do this becuase I’m quite particular about how my diff functions. I feel its time well spent. More to the point... A VLSD falls even further short in all the areas that I take the time to ‘improve’ on a clutch-pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB26powered74zcar Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I think putting a KAAZ LSD unit, or which ever others they make into the R230 is the best route to take if you really feel the R230 is needed... I wish TimZ would drop in on this discussion, he went with the custom R230 swap, and changed out the carrier to a KAAZ unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 J. SOILEAU Do you recommend the KAAZ unit over the PG Power Brute for use in a R200? If so, please explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 The KAAZ has more, larger clutches than the Power Brute. It is also available in 1.5 way and 2 way, where the Power Brute is only 2 way. I don't know what J Soileau will say, but the KAAZ is the better LSD by a good margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 JON... The KAAZ looks like a super nice unit but do you think it's really worth the $545 price difference compared to the $450 Power Brute? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 That's your call. Does the money matter to you? If not, go for the KAAZ. Like I said before, I've heard of people breaking the crappy single clutch Power Brutes, but I can't say that I've heard of that trouble with the good one. It's definitely going to be more prone to breakage than a KAAZ. If you're just driving around on the street you won't be stressing it like a drag racer would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 JON... Mine is a semi-spiritedly driven V8 street car and will seldom see the track. Even then it'll be quarter mile only. That said, I'm shooting for 500BHP. The new engine is in the future but I want to mod with it in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Its still your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Hmm... yeah, you're right. Please note that I'm week-minded enough to be swayed. However, I need lots of data to conclude my search. I'm not perceptive enough to divine a solution:wink: What I need to know... is the Power Brute "bullet-proof" enough for a "my car and driving style":confused: Its still your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kj280z Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Stay with the R200 and try to find one with a clutch type LSD out of a 87-88 z31 turbo and spend the extra money to have the internal clutch plates adjusted to your liking. The added weight of the R230 kinda turns me off and the pro and cons have already been discussed. If you have the money the quaife is a great upgrade for the R200 and it sounds like it will meet your intended use/goals just fine Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Thanks KJONES... My current R200 is open. The Quaife sometimes loses traction on one wheel during straight burn-outs, from what I've heard. This isn't a track car and straight take-off traction is what I'm concerned about. I'm probably just going to have a new Power Brute installed and adjusted. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Thanks KJONES... My current R200 is open. The Quaife sometimes loses traction on one wheel during straight burn-outs, from what I've heard. This isn't a track car and straight take-off traction is what I'm concerned about. I'm probably just going to have a new Power Brute installed and adjusted. What do you think? Your honor, your honor, I protest. Hear say! The Quaife is what it is and has a better than average reputation. Now on the presision gear site, even the company it's self did not rate the Power brute high on the road courses. I just looked and they dont even include the road course in its rating system. Off Roading 4 of 5 Mud Bogging 4 of 5 Rock Crawling 1 Towing 4 of 5 Circle Track 4 of 5 Drag Racing 4 of 5 Street to Strip 4 of 5 Rock crawling not so hot either. Me no rock crawl, me street bully....sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 I don't know why they have a low rating for road courses. It is the Nissan LSD and it has been used in road racing for decades. As to rock crawling, there are 3 types of diffs that get a good score there: Detroit Lockers, selectable lockers, and spools. Reason why is that ANY LSD will slip when one tire comes off the ground, and most rock crawlers are lifting tires all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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