Documentary of the Super Datsun resurrection

[Bob_H]

Ok, last post before I hit the sack and get up to fly tomorrow.

This last picture is of my oil pan and one of the reasons I pulled it. It was rubbing on the steering rack - specifically on the pass side that holds the rack and on the "bumper" in the middle. I could just move the "bumper" and that takes care of one issue - and grind down the "ear" on the pass side. (remember, US passenger side).

This would have been a no-go for driving until it was fixed. I think my engine mounts are slightly shorter than others - in an attempt to minimize the the vertical height - it was cut too close. Someone else wouldn't likely have this problem.

My plan is a completely new pan - not because this hits, but because for my intended track use - its too thin. Brad Davies old car,(don't know who owns it now), has been using this pan for some time now with no issues. I'm looking for a completely different route in my solution - modifying the stock oil pan. We'll see how it goes. If I can make it work - I'll put this pan up for sale. I'm also seriously debating the engine mount situation - as for the power I'm planning on ultimately - around 600hp, I'm not real enamored with the stock Datsun 240z engine mounts. I'd like to find a way to make the GT-R engine mounts work - but that may be some additional fabrication... we'll see.

Let see - what's left... here's my current "must buy" list.

-complete lock set - the ones I have don't have a key for them

-two aluminum thresholds - again, don't have any.

-Fuel pump, pre filter, surge tank, post filter, fittings, fuel rail, etc...

-Window channel fuzzy trim

-carpet kit

-new 6 point belts,(old ones are just that - old, and full of dust/grime from body work - not a good combo in my opinion)

-complete wiring kit....that should be fun!

-PF-01 pads all around

-LOKAR accel cable and dipstick,(current setup is not a good solution)

-hood support,(didn't have one?!)

-New fittings for PVC setup

-Possible NISMO intake surge tank?

-lots of misc....

 

That's just the "buy" list, which seems to grow daily.

The list of what to do is slightly longer, but thankfully not that much.

The biggest time consuming items left:

-Wire the care with a new setup - completely new

-Plumb/install new fuel pump setup - am considering a new fuel cell to bring it more current and have a complete installed surge tank/pumps internal - any leads?

-new oil pan fab

 

Those three will likely consume 80% of the remaining build time. The rest is straight forward and a few days worth of work. Good thing my wife is in NC gonig to school - I can work on the car as soon as I get home until its time to hit the sack and start over again!

-Bob

[zcarmark]

If you decide not to use your oil pan, I would be interested in buying it!

[Bob_H]

If you decide not to use your oil pan, I would be interested in buying it!

 

I knew that one was coming!

-Bob

[Bob_H]

Well, finally stated on the cutting of the original oil pan. I thought I'd post some pictures before it is all cleaned up. I wanted to show just how difficult it is to cut off the diff and flanges.

There are a few very thick portions - and it was heck to cut it with a plasma cutter turned up to max. I'm going to take a grinder to it this afternoon and smooth things out. Next is to take the engine apart again and then bolt up the oil pan and pickup so we can fabricate the new pan.

Enjoy.

-Bob

[Bob_H]

Ok, pan is "cleaned", engine is completely disassembled. Put the original cut up pan on with the new rear sump pickup and took it by the fabricator - judgement is still out on using the new pan or completely re-doing the oil pan... not sure. Its tough with the non-even sides that were cut - may have to use a machinest to straighten it out. We'll see.

Also, take a look at the throttle bodies - The first two are before I cleaned them - the closeup shows just how dirty they were. The second two are the clean ones. They did have a anti-seize type compound that seemed to be on the throttle plates originally - maybe to help seal things? I don't know - any insight?

Anyways, suspension later this weekend, fuel pump install, and future work on the wiring. I think I found a good solution for my gearbox situation - trying to work the G-Force GF-5R instead of the RB25 RWD tranny. Castlemaine Rod shop in AUS has a bellhousing that will adapt the RB's to a GM T10, Saginaw, etc.. which will work directly with the GF-5R - I'm just trying to find out what clutch flywheel, starter and clutch fork/throwout bearing to use. CRS has been slow to respond.

Anyways - still pushing hard to get this done quickly. My next two weeks will be light on flying since our planes are down for a short period due to some issues with the ejection seats - should be fixed soon. So more time off for me!

-Bob

[synthtk]

Beautiful car and great work on documenting your project, cannot wait to see it all completed. If you ever want to sell those 17 CCWs let me know

[Bob_H]

Beautiful car and great work on documenting your project, cannot wait to see it all completed. If you ever want to sell those 17 CCWs let me know

 

You and about 10 other people on this board!

Thanks for the compliments - it helps keep me motivated to work on the car. Flying 3 flights a day with 12-14 hours at work tends to sap the desire to jump on the car when I get home.....

Anyways, going to talk to the guys about the oil pan tomorrow morning. I'll know what direction I'll go at that time.

[HLS30-08077]

You and about 10 other people on this board!

Thanks for the compliments - it helps keep me motivated to work on the car. Flying 3 flights a day with 12-14 hours at work tends to sap the desire to jump on the car when I get home.....

Anyways, going to talk to the guys about the oil pan tomorrow morning. I'll know what direction I'll go at that time.

 

 

I totally understand the "Lack of Time" thing. I've done so little over a long period of time (5 years) but it all pays off in the end. I'll read over your email again and write you in regards to exactly what you want and have done to the wiring.

 

I'm the one you wrote about the headlight and parking light upgrade Harness's. I guess the easiest way to understand where you're at is to ask..... Do the parking lights work thru the combo switch, as is? Do the headlights work in the same way? You said that the harness's were out but as long as the parking light circuit and headlight circuits remain in tact, the harness's should work fine.

 

I'm a patient man, (gotta be when working on 240Z wiring) so we'll write back and forth a few times till we are on the same track. The car is ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS!!! Love the color, wheels, and whole RB swap. Keep up the great work and lets see if we can get you on the road soon, and with all the lights working right.

 

Dave. ( wolfin32z@yahoo.com) White Wolf Wire Works, Marysville, WA.

[Bob_H]

Well, had to take the oil pan back and do some more grinding so we cold get a workable solution to start with. Now I have to fab it up in cardboard, then off to get it made. The pictures are of the newly "ground" setup - i.e. I needed a flat portion in which to start.

I can't decide on the thickness to use - i can use 1/8 or 3/16th. 3/16 is thick - big time for an oil pan. As a reference, I think the thickness used in my older oil pan is on the thinner than 1/16 - almost sheetmetal thick. The same as the other pans out there,(240z turbo's oilpans) but for my intended purpose, not thick enough. We did discuss just adding thickness to the pan I already have, but I can sell it,(and recoup some of the cost) and get exactly what I want with the RB oil pan flange.

The other issue is the oiling problems that are common. I recently posted in this thread:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?p=792565#post792565.

Here are some pictures of what I modified. The first ones are the head before I started grinding - the next ones are after. The smaller hold is the side of the head that is lower.....not a very good design. And yes, the springs/valves are coming out - so don't worry about the shavings/etc...

I'm likely pulling the entire rear suspension out tomorrow! Yea......

 

Ok, pictures:

1st and 2nd are the new oil pan cuts - i.e. its prep'd for the cardboard mock-up

next is the cylinder head before any work was done. I took the head gasket and scribbed the outline of the area available. Over the next few pictures, opened it up to that line and smoothed out the drilling.

The 7th picture is a shot into the freeze plug that is normally removed to install a head drain. You can see the side of the rear most valve spring. As you can see, the space is rather small, and it connects to both sides of the head. All the oil must drain down through what you can see in the final two pictures. The hole is for the cylinder head bolt - the opening to the drain area that I enlarged is to the left of the picture - its about as big as the end of my thumb - maybe slightly larger. Not very large..... In the first shot from above, you can see the flashing I removed which is shown in the last picture.

 

The cylinder head is still being disassembled so it can be cleaned and then it will go back together.

-Bob

[Bob_H]

Dave,

Thanks for responding in this thread. For those who aren't familiar, he modifies your harness and repairs turn signals/headlight stalks. Info can be found here:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=123689

That is three links to classiczcar where the threads are located.

 

Anyways, to answer your question, no, none of the existing harness is present. I have the turn signal/light switches and their ends, and the hazard switch. I will gladly utilize parts of my dash harness if required to make a workable solution. The hazard lights did previously work through the stock harness, but obviously are not connected right now. I'd be willing to bet that whatever wiring setup I utilize will allow me to use that switch.

-Bob

[Bob_H]

Well, I officially bowed out of the Z Car convention. Work commitments were getting too much, and were keeping me from completing the car and we have some detachments that will overlap the convention.

That relieves some pressure on me that was getting a little high to get the car ready w/all the associated flying I've been doing.

I recently had the Castlemaine Rod Shop bellhousing come in that will adapt my GF-5R to the RB motor - so now I will likely have to re-do the engine mounts/etc...

That of course, changes the potential new oil pan - etc.. its a nice snowball effect.

I'm currently working on the re-wire of the car with the EZwire setup. There currently is a great thread which I'm using as a baseline:

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125050

 

That's the big projects for now... I'm really bummed about missing the Z car convention - but that is the way things fall sometimes. Maybe next year.

-Bob

[Jwink25]

Hey Bob, I know you are busy, but did you get my PM? Will those dates work for you?

 

Thanks,

Jason

[Bob_H]

Jason,

Yes, I did get the PM last week and replied then. I have been on leave,(Vacation), and at the Tailhook convention this past weekend. As I said in the PM, I'll check tomorrow to see what the dates will be.

-Bob

[Bob_H]

Ok,

Long overdue work was finally accomplished and here is the long overdue update.

All the suspension under the car had lots of "gunk" on it from the layer of grease followed by 2 years in the body shop with lots of sanding - lots and lots of junk on all the parts. In addition, as you will see in the pictures, there is some corrosion on parts, etc.. and before I take this on the track, I need to take a look at bolts/nuts/etc...

In my post after this, I'll put the oil pan update.

Of note:

ALL of the bolts holding the halfshafts to the outer stub axle were loose. The previous owner had warned me that I would need to tighten them before every event - now I see why. Again, EVERY one was loose. Sure, they have loc-nuts on each one, but some you could spin freely,(to be more clear, the bolt and nut combo spun freely - but the nut was still held on tightly). I need to look into a safety wire situation when I put this back together.

So something to check for those of you who might be running the CV setup.

To answer the questions about who made the suspension, where can you get it, etc...

It is a shop in Atlanta - I can get the info by digging some. They were custom made, as were the adapters for the 300zx brake calipers,(3/8" thick steel). The rear bracket includes an adapter for the wilwood parking brake caliper,(that is on the "rear" portion). This was designed to be a suspension setup for a GT-2 racecar.

The swaybars are Speedway engineering - and are fully custom if you want to duplicate them. Do-able, but expect some welding/etc... and it won't work with a stock rear fuel tank. The front is eaiser, but expect to reinforce the frame rails up front,(as you should do with any aftermarket large sway bar)

If you have more questions, just ask and I'll see what I can do.

-Bob

[Bob_H]

Ok, oil pan issues.

I posted about my previous concerns about my intended hard use and the thin oil pan. In addition, with many RB Z cars on the track having oiling issues, I wanted to re-design my setup.

First, there are a few things I mandated that I include. One - the windage trays that bolt to the bottom of the main bearing girdle had to stay. Second, I wanted extra capacity. And third - overkill thickness on the aluminum. The cardboard paper I used as a mockup is the thickness of what I will be using.

As you can see in one of the pictures, (and is shown earlier in this thread), I have a custom pickup - and I was mocking up the pan to match this pickup. Once the pan is actually fabricated, I'll install the baffling and trap-doors.

There are two reasons generally speaking, why RB26 motors have oiling issues on the track. The first is insufficient oil in the pan - leading to a complete loss of oil pressure. Mark with his Silver Z showed this in his video from Texas World Speedway - with the sudden fall in pressure under some braking and right hand turns. He has since re-worked the oil pan and increased the amount of oil in the pan to help deal with this.

The second issue is aeration of the oil. There is a lot of oil moving around the engine, and with the crank spinning around at 6-8k rpm, it tends to whip it up in a froth - which leads to air in the oil, which in turn, gets sucked up the pickup - into the oil pump where that bubble now creates stress on the oil pump gearators and slowly lowers the output of the pump,(typically seen by a falling oil pressure).

I'll be honest - I'm not 100% sure exactly what leads to both of these problems beyond insufficient and air in the oil in the bottom of the pan. I used to believe that the oil pooled in the head - but have since found many examples of RB's with high volume pumps, no extra restrictors anywhere in the motor - and they are operating fine.

If you take a close look at the tray which bolts into the bottom of the RB26 stock oil pan casting - you will notice it has two layers, the first of which is very similar to the "windage tray's",(as I call them), and then another flat piece beneath it with a few holes. This bolt-in tray serves to help the oil settle down and remove the excess air in the oil before it gets to the bottom of the sump.

So bottom line - I won't be using the external cylinder head drain, but will attempt to fabricate another "windage" type tray to help route the oil down to the bottom of the sump, i.e. slow it down and allow the air to get out of the oil. I.E. I'm trying to keep it as much like stock as I can within my limitations of a rear sump.

If I were drag racing this car, these issues might not even pop up, and for sure daily driving would matter either. But high G-forces in a 25 min session will expose any design flaws in my setup.

You can see I did a lot of the cutting and fabrication on my own and will only have the shop do the actual cutting and welding. Otherwise this would have been an outrageously expensive setup.

-Bob

[datsun dave]

Great pictures of the sump mock up Bob do you think you will have any problems with it clearing the Zeds front cross member ?.

[Bob_H]

Great pictures of the sump mock up Bob do you think you will have any problems with it clearing the Zeds front cross member ?.

Yes and no. Yes, if I don't do anything, it will have issues. But no because I'm planning around it. If you look at the picture of my old oil pan, the two points which hit - one is the pass,(US), side rack mount and the other is the u-bolt bumper which bolts around the rack. I can move the u-bolt bumper, and if it is still close to the pass. side rack mount, there is plenty of room to grind the upper portion off. I also need to account for engine movement under power - as with the clockwise rotation of the crankshaft,(viewed from the front of the engine), it will load down and to the pass side under power. In the end, I'll have to mock it back up and see how much clearance I have - fortunately there is plenty of "meat" to remove on the steering rack mount and still allow it to do its job.

-Bob

[majik16106]

glad your back.. cant wait to see how this all turns out. amazing car before, three times as amazing now!

[1 tuff z]

bob, so-i'm guessing you are now getting ready for the 08 convention! even better road course-mid ohio, convention in cleveland. missed you in fla.

 

i was in corpus for my fixed wing training, many years ago. used to run my z up and down the runway at cabiness [i lived in an apt about 2 miles away].

 

david

[Bob_H]

i was in corpus for my fixed wing training, many years ago. used to run my z up and down the runway at cabiness [i lived in an apt about 2 miles away].

 

david

 

The local Porsche club still runs on Cabiness every month - I just signed on to be their chief driving instructor for next year. We have a whole new group of folks getting the ball rolling and have really organized it well - a welcome change for the old guard who have kept things running for so long w/no new influx of blood.

Anyways, the pan itself is completed - I now have to pull it back off and mock up the baffles, then put it back on. Its a work of art - the guy who worked with me on the pan is a good welder,(been doing it for the past 6 years every day). I did most of the cutting/trimming and he tacked it in place then welded it all.

Next step, attach the G-Force tranny to the new bellhousing and block and drop it in the car to check clearance/etc... That should be next weekend. I'm really trying to keep progress on this...

-Bob

PS-the pictures are with my cellphone, so the resolution isn't that great.