Fuel Injector Upgrades/Swap

[cd1105]

Can someone suggest an o ring style injector that is or close to stock 280zx 265cc injectors. I'm upgrading to a 11mm pallnet fuel rail o ring style, because i plan to run a bigger turbo and stand alone ecu in a couple of months but for now i need an o ring style injector that the stock ecu can handle.

[averynisbet]

You will be better off waiting on your ECU. It can be really hard to find injectors that flow nearly the same fuel but in diffrent packages. This is also not taking into account that once you have something that has a similar flow rate it will most likely have a different opening and closing time.

 

The curve of how much fuel flows vs the Duty cycle will also vary with different injectors.

 

Consider the injectors and ECU as a package. Like carbs and jets.

 

 

The SOHC KA24's are really close. claimed 260cc. Please double check. The DOHC's flowed 280 but were side feed. These can be found in lots of cars. U12 Stanza, 89-90 240sx, and trucks. Should be all over the yards. Some sentras may have the KA also. I don't know if the altima ever got the SOHC.

 

 

-Avery

[cd1105]

You will be better off waiting on your ECU. It can be really hard to find injectors that flow nearly the same fuel but in diffrent packages. This is also not taking into account that once you have something that has a similar flow rate it will most likely have a different opening and closing time.

 

The curve of how much fuel flows vs the Duty cycle will also vary with different injectors.

 

Consider the injectors and ECU as a package. Like carbs and jets.

 

 

The SOHC KA24's are really close. claimed 260cc. Please double check. The DOHC's flowed 280 but were side feed. These can be found in lots of cars. U12 Stanza, 89-90 240sx, and trucks. Should be all over the yards. Some sentras may have the KA also. I don't know if the altima ever got the SOHC.

 

 

-Avery

 

I contacted http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com and asked them the same thing they recommended me the inp-065 they come from a 2.4l ecplise and their 265cc. I'm going to email them regarding the duty cycle. Are those ka24e 11mm o ring stlye, and use the same connector plug as the 280zx injectors?

[averynisbet]

The connector should be similar. I don't know the O-ring size.

 

Ask them about injectors on an 89' Nissan 240sx with sohc 2.4L. Its engine code is KA24E. Try to match the opening and closing times and impedance. They most likely will not have data on the PWM vs. flow rate. I would wait and not waste money on these injectors, if you are planing on getting a stand alone ECU. New/refurb injectors are expensive. Junk yards charge around $10 and up for each one. Save your money get some big 440cc or 500cc injectors that have a good spray pattern.

 

-Avery

[cd1105]

The connector should be similar. I don't know the O-ring size.

 

Ask them about injectors on an 89' Nissan 240sx with sohc 2.4L. Its engine code is KA24E. Try to match the opening and closing times and impedance. They most likely will not have data on the PWM vs. flow rate. I would wait and not waste money on these injectors, if you are planing on getting a stand alone ECU. New/refurb injectors are expensive. Junk yards charge around $10 and up for each one. Save your money get some big 440cc or 500cc injectors that have a good spray pattern.

 

-Avery

 

I would wait but I'm finishing my l28et rebuild up and i sold the fuel rail and bought a pallnet , and i don't really want to buy another stock fuel rail so that why I'm trying to find a similar injectors for now. There was a guy in the "list your l28et setup threaad" who was running 440cc Supra injectors on his stock ecu with a freshly rebuilt l28et, which was probally way worse then if he would have tryed to get similar injectors. He did say he was going to upgrade to MS soon though.

 

*Edit* When i contacted http://www.fuelinjector.citymaker.com/ again they said the 240sx and the eclipse had the same size inejector, but they were both high impedance.

[cd1105]

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=148211&highlight=high+impedance+injectors

 

I'm assuming the posts in this thread answered my question, correct?

[Hardwyre]

I have a fairly stock '76 280Z. I understand newer injectors have finer spay patterns, etc. I'm curious what kind of injectors I can drop in as replacements for the stocks.

 

I was looking at the 5.0 injectors that can be used as barbed ones, but I think the flow rate is far too high for my setup. Could anyone PM me the info?

[pallnet]

Sirs

Yesterday I found a common injector that is 11mm, low ohms and flows 190cc which is very close to the NA "Z" 188cc injector, they also have the same injector plug. You can pull them from Toyotas that run the 22RE engine from 83-87 such as the 4-Runner, trucks and Celicas according to my sources. I found some info on them being on a Cressida engine as well, 5MG if I remember correctly.

 

This is exactly what the NA guys want for getting rid of the hose style injectors and going to a cleaner injector setup.

 

 

For the turbo guys who want to stay with stock EFI and don't want to spend a brain beating time trying to tune/tweek stock turbo EFI then i have one for you as well. It may have been mentioned before but I can't locate it. Red topped RB20DEt injectors are 11mm, flow 270cc and they use the same plug according to my sources. I'm not sure of the ohms they run yet but if they are high ohms then they are the same injector as the KA24E and can be found easily here in the states. The only thing is the KA24E injectors are high ohms so removing and jumping your stock resistor block may be in order on the 81 turbo but 82-83 I'm not sure yet since they have resistors built into the computer itself.

 

Hope this info helps.

pallnet

[cd1105]

Sirs

Yesterday I found a common injector that is 11mm, low ohms and flows 190cc which is very close to the NA "Z" 188cc injector, they also have the same injector plug. You can pull them from Toyotas that run the 22RE engine from 83-87 such as the 4-Runner, trucks and Celicas according to my sources. I found some info on them being on a Cressida engine as well, 5MG if I remember correctly.

 

This is exactly what the NA guys want for getting rid of the hose style injectors and going to a cleaner injector setup.

 

 

For the turbo guys who want to stay with stock EFI and don't want to spend a brain beating time trying to tune/tweek stock turbo EFI then i have one for you as well. It may have been mentioned before but I can't locate it. Red topped RB20DEt injectors are 11mm, flow 270cc and they use the same plug according to my sources. I'm not sure of the ohms they run yet but if they are high ohms then they are the same injector as the KA24E and can be found easily here in the states. The only thing is the KA24E injectors are high ohms so removing and jumping your stock resistor block may be in order on the 81 turbo but 82-83 I'm not sure yet since they have resistors built into the computer itself.

 

Hope this info helps.

pallnet

 

Thanks pallnet for the info. Please let us know when you find out if they are high or low impendance. In the link i posted( http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread...ance+injectors ) in my previous post a guy in the thread said it was ok to run high impedance injectors with the stock low impedance turbo ecu if the injectors are close to the stock ones.

[Headstrong280z]

Does anybody know why this thread says to stay away from the yellow 295cc supra injectors?

 

I just bought some and from my searching, there are many people running 295cc injectors, but it seems they should be reserved for NA applications, or stock turbo applications (but we all know that never happens). Also...check out this post from Zcar.com using stock fuel pressure (~38psi)

 

"Stock L28E 188cc injectors will support 180HP

Stock L28ET 265cc injectors will support 254HP

Stock 7MGE (supra) 295cc injectors will support 283HP

Nismo Z31 N/A optional 320cc injectors will support 307HP

Stock 4AGZE (MR2) 365cc injectors will support 350HP

Stock 7MGTE, 3SGTE (Supra) 430cc will support 412HP

 

The math are done with 80% duty cycles. Paste and save. It can be handy."

[FlatBlack]

Anybody know anything about the E5ZE-A3A injectors? My friend has some Merkur injectors he says are 36#, the only page I found to confirm that is this one:

 

http://www.gonzomotorsports.com/?p=410

 

Everything else has the data for the A3B, which is 35#, but no A3A.

 

I am looking at some 390cc injectors, I would rather go with them if the Ford injectors are only 35#.

 

Random site with conflicting data:

 

http://www.turbobricks.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8662

[JavelinZ]

Here's a few questions I have about the 23250 45011 Toyota injector. I have a '77 280 that is all original as far as the engine goes. It still has the original injectors which I want to get away from for two reasons:

 

1. #2 cylinder injector is acting up and causes that cylinder to misfire intermittenly (when I disconnect the injector clip the misfire is steady.)

 

2. Injectors are orignal; so the rubber is showing it's 30yr age plus getting rid of the boomerang fuel rail and hose splices between the halves would be a safety improvement.

 

I did as much research on the web as I could, and was unable to find the opening and closing time for the Toyota injector. So my questions; to clarify Pallnet's info.

Will this injector work with the original Z ecm?

 

Is the injector open/close time critical for this setup?(I know that you guys running stand alone ecm's have to put the time in as a parameter for the injectors to function)

 

Also, due to the difference in flow/pressure between the stock injector and the Toyota one, will I need an adjustable FPR to get the 190cc/min flow out of the new injector?

 

Will the stock pump handle the raise in pressure?

 

So, Can I use the 23250 45011 Toyota injector that Pallnet listed?

I appreciate the help, from the reading I did it looks like it will work. The injector cycle time and the fuel pressure differences are what left me unsure. I Don't really want stock injectors when I could convert over to a better safer setup for roughly the same price. Thanks everyone.

Edited February 23, 2010 by JavelinZ

[Denz]

I am running these injectors on a JSK 14mm fuel rail. I had the pintle caps converted to european pintle caps so that they drop into the Z manifold with the original seals. This looks like a really good deal for injectors that will support about 500HP on a 6 cylinder. This is for 8 injectors but you might be able to order just six. They are 42#/440cc high impedence. Four spray holes in the tip.

 

http://www.buyfordracing.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=634

 

FOUND THIS INFO ON THE WEB SO TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT:

All from Ford Tech Support (800) FORD788, 1-800-367-3788

 

Q: What fuel pressure are the injectors rated at?

42 lb @ 39.15 psi

 

Q: What is the Injector Pulse Width Voltage Adjustment?

 

They called this "Injector Offset"

 

V - ms

6 - 4.986 ms

8 - 2.098

10 - 1.321

11 - 1.095

12 - .919

13 - .786

14 - .670

15 - .575

Great information guys! I am new to the form, and have been looking to replace the injectors in my 76 280Z. Looks like Motor Man is the place to purchace them.

 

Great Thread!

 

Denz

[87pyro3]

Here's a few questions I have about the 23250 45011 Toyota injector. I have a '77 280 that is all original as far as the engine goes. It still has the original injectors which I want to get away from for two reasons:

 

1. #2 cylinder injector is acting up and causes that cylinder to misfire intermittenly (when I disconnect the injector clip the misfire is steady.)

 

2. Injectors are orignal; so the rubber is showing it's 30yr age plus getting rid of the boomerang fuel rail and hose splices between the halves would be a safety improvement.

 

I did as much research on the web as I could, and was unable to find the opening and closing time for the Toyota injector. So my questions; to clarify Pallnet's info.

Will this injector work with the original Z ecm?

 

Is the injector open/close time critical for this setup?(I know that you guys running stand alone ecm's have to put the time in as a parameter for the injectors to function)

 

Also, due to the difference in flow/pressure between the stock injector and the Toyota one, will I need an adjustable FPR to get the 190cc/min flow out of the new injector?

 

Will the stock pump handle the raise in pressure?

 

So, Can I use the 23250 45011 Toyota injector that Pallnet listed?

I appreciate the help, from the reading I did it looks like it will work. The injector cycle time and the fuel pressure differences are what left me unsure. I Don't really want stock injectors when I could convert over to a better safer setup for roughly the same price. Thanks everyone.

 

 

Has Any1 Figured this post out    im very interested in updateing my older injectors.

[NewZed]

Make sure you consider the fuel pressure that the flow rate is taken at.  Some rates shown on various web sites seem to be for the factory setting, but other independent test results are taken at a different pressure, typically 3 bar (43.5 psi).  The Z setting is 2.5 bar (36.3 psi), but I don't know if the 188-190 cc/min rate people talk about is taken at 2.5 or 3 bar.  And more modern injectors are run at an even higher pressure.

 

I've searched around but often find rates listed with no test pressure.  If you're lucky you'll find some independent testing that lists pressures and rates for the injectors you're looking at.

[motomanmike]

I just ordered a set of high impedence 400cc injectors from oside tirger.  Hopefully will have them installed in the next week or two.  I've searched but can't seem to find any of the voltage correction settings for MS yet but when i do i'll post up how they work out.  I got them in the standard barbed style.  The guy was very helpful.  I'm sending my original injectors back for flow testing.  He also said if I decided to go with a oring style rail later on he could change them up. He charges $7 a piece to test them on the flow bench which seems reasonable enough to me because my local napa can do them but charge 125 a set!! 

[TonyB]

Any updates?

[Oblithian]

Don't you need more than just an adapter to swap to the newer EV6/14s (i.e. saturated)? (not physically, I mean in terms of current and control)

[NewZed]

Don't you need more than just an adapter to swap to the newer EV6/14s (i.e. saturated)? (not physically, I mean in terms of current and control)

 

It depends on your engine management system.  But you can run them on the Datsun EFI system without doing much, if anything.  Some people don't even bypass the resistors.  The Datsun 280Z system is primitive so any opening and closing time losses are tiny compared to the overall level of fine-tuning you can do.