Guest 280ZForce Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Yeah, so I'm shopping for a new custom intake manifold and I've searched on here and all I can find is a few pics of some Lonewolf and Thagards units, but no specifications to them. Also in play is the Ron Tyler design. Anybody know the specs on them and which is best or better for my application? I know Thagard doesn't make them anymore, but I have a possible chance of getting 1 from a member on here. I just bought a GReddy Turbo Manifold from Ivo that I'm having sandblasted and ceramic coated and would like a intake manifold to compliment it now. You can read my sig for most of my mods or click my car domain link below my sig pic for more pics and specs. Any help would be appreciated. Looking to spend no more really than the price of the Lonewolf setup of $600. Pics of Thagard Unit...Click to enlarge Pics of Lonewolf Unit...Click to enlarge Thanks in advance - Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280Zone Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 There was a Lone Wolf in the classifieds recently if you are interested (not mine). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 If t'were me, I'd be waiting for Ron Tyler to go into mass production. http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117607 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 There was a Lone Wolf in the classifieds recently if you are interested (not mine). Yes, I've seen that and have it saved. Thanks. But I need to know the differences between the 2 or if there is another better out there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 If t'were me, I'd be waiting for Ron Tyler to go into mass production. I sent him a PM, I had seen that before and totally forgot about it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linluv84 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Any word on what the final $$$ will be for Ron's intake? It would be neat to see the runners be able to unbolt from the flange. That way it would be easier to do head/exhaust work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 What HP are you shooting at? Shopping by price and come back to bite you. Determine your needs, then decide on the components that will meet those needs. Do it honestly, and not on dreams. Then buy the parts that reach the goal. Cost will be what the cost will be...you are going at it kind of backwards IMO. Ask the question "what do I need" to reach the goal. Not "what do I want on the car"... Kind of like boost. Guys are continually asying "I want to run 30psi..." Why? Because someone else said so? Because it sounds correct? Cool? Granted the stock manifold doesn't flow 200CFM per runner, but then again will you need that on your build? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 What HP are you shooting at? I'm guessing right now I'm at 400+ whp and 400+ ft-lbs tq on 20 psi with my current setup listed in my sig. The tune could use a lil massaging, but I'd be in that area. Would like to see around 500ish+ whp once I'm done w/ power upgrades. Determine your needs, then decide on the components that will meet those needs. Do it honestly, and not on dreams. Got the plans in mind already it's just buying the parts when the money is available to me. I just the jist of it already done. I just picked up a GReddy turbo manifold, now I need an intake to compliment it. Honest parts I've decided to upgrade as far as power goes: -Custom turbo header - check -Custom intake manifold - looking -larger injectors than current 440s Ask the question "what do I need" to reach the goal. Not "what do I want on the car"... To get to where I need to be, I need some better air and fuel flow, hence why I'm gettin' er dun that way right now. I've got the internals and everything covered, got the turbo I want, the intercooler and everything setup, now just need to get air flow and fuel up. Tony you've seen my car about a year ago with a different engine and turbo and everything all together in it when you came over to my house for a lil Z gathering in mid-Dec 05...the Z has def. taken a turn for the best since you last saw it. Everything has changed literally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Cool... I guess the only question that remains is "where do you want your power"? Most will peak those numbers between 55 and 6300 rpm. With that boost level (JeffP was at 415 RWHP at 23 I believe)... Changing basically turbos and cams made a serious jump to well over 100 more RWHP, at 5 psi less boost. He's scared to change the intake from the extrude-honed stocker at this point... It becomes "how much will it really make with a 10% increase in flow through the runners?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparks280zt Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Justin, I dont want to sould like a jerk or anything, but have you had the car on the track or on the dyno? Sometimes it is very depressing as to your "guess" and your actual hp. As I was once told, most people that assume numbers never leave the dyno happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayAreaZT Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Maybe you can get the plenum volume and runner length and diameter for each intake, crunch the numbers and see which one works out the best for your setup and goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Justin, I dont want to sould like a jerk or anything, but have you had the car on the track or on the dyno? Sometimes it is very depressing as to your "guess" and your actual hp. As I was once told, most people that assume numbers never leave the dyno happy. I understand where you are coming from on this and I'm not gonna assume any #s really and stand by them, I'll hope for the best when I get there. But I'm just estimating for now, as I know every car differs. I hate throwing out #s for that reason, but all it ever seems most of us get asked when were out is how much hp that thing have and if I don't say anything then they keep talking sh*t, so I just throw out a # I know the car is capable of at that boost level to shut them up. I saw Garrett w/ a 3.0L non-stroker and stock head and stock cam pull down 460 rwhp @ 23 psi. I've got the jump on him as far as a lil more displacemnet, some good head work and very aggressive cam. I'm going to get the car dyno'd as I have it right now hopefully soon to get some #s before I change intakes and exhaust manifolds to better flowing units, then re-dyno it again. Ivo was telling me that Rick Bowers had the Thagard intake on his 3,1L stroker (not sure if n/a or turbo), but just by replacing the intake his AFRs leaned out by .7, so I was told there is definitely room for potential in that unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proxlamus© Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 umm.. 400rwhp with a zx 5 speed?! uh oh Z32 time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted January 27, 2007 Administrators Share Posted January 27, 2007 If t'were me, I'd be waiting for Ron Tyler to go into mass production. Thanks No one should be waiting on my manifold. Production hinges largely on positive test results. I expect at least 4-6 months before the first tests. If all goes well, its a 12 month wait minimum. Any word on what the final $$$ will be for Ron's intake?. No It would be neat to see the runners be able to unbolt from the flange. That way it would be easier to do head/exhaust work... The early design used a separate flange for the plenum to runner juntion. A side benifit would be the ability to provide head flange/runners separate for those that wanted to build thier own plenum. At this time, I don’t feel the weight and cost penalty is worth the ‘feature’. He's scared to change the intake from the extrude-honed stocker at this point... It becomes "how much will it really make with a 10% increase in flow through the runners?" Interesting that he has gotten that far on an OE manifold. N42 runners are only about 53% the area of the stock intake valve (280). Considering their length, I suspect a fair amount of restriction. My runners are 74% the area of the valve. Looking to spend no more really than the price of the Lonewolf setup of $600. *IF* it ever gets produced my manifold will likley be well more than double that. One, not so obvious advantage, is that runner lengths will be tailored to the customer. Another consideration with my manifold... the plenum walls are only .063â€. It would not hold up to much boost. The two that are currently being built, and already sold, are for NA cars. I am working with a tooling engineer on .125" wall plenums for a boosted application.... we’ll see where that goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Exactly Ron! I am 'the devil in Jeff's Ear' when it comes to these things, and he already knows what Electromotive used for their manifold, and has had his head ported to match that setup. he has the basic manifold, only requirement is to make some conversion pieces to the plenum. But after the last test (535 RWHP with an aborted pull to only 6300, when his power peak was around 7K) at only 20psi literally has him now asking "how much is too much". With him running the car in fourth gear at boost threshold rpm, and romping it ...the chassis flex combined with the way the quaife differential hooks with my bulk as ballast... the car literally wants to change lanes HARD! He's now questioning wether he 'needs' the 30psi he planned everything around. He's already at his crank horsepower goals well below the boost he projected he thought he would need. As I have always said, boost is merely an indication to restriction to flow! With that lower restriction manifold setup, I'd figure Jeff's engine would make some massive power with FAR less indicated boost than he now is seeing. It's a funny dichotomy: people want big boost numbers thinking it means big horespower. But when you really correctly prep the engine, you don't NEED humongo boost levels to reach big power! And it must be said: Jeff is hard-headed! He wanted to make 600hp on the stock Z31 ECU, and using an engine that for all intents and purposes could be made to pass the visual smog check requirements in CA. To his credit, he's stuck it out, and is sooooo close to the goal he can taste it. If it wasn't for some limitations imposed by the injectors he's using he'd be there already. But his trailblazing has resulted in the invention of a neat circuit that RADICALLY improves the response of large injector opening and closing events. I shouldn't say any more, but as Jeff says, "That little standalone circuit could be added to any control circuit for injectors and it should really improve the resolution for people using larger injectors." Myself, I'm laying in drums of waste oil, and have found my supplier of refractory cement. I will probably have a waste-oil fired blast furnace capable of batch quantities to cast my own manifolds before the end of the year. Of coure, it will be totally illegal to operate...but then again, they have to catch me using it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted January 27, 2007 Administrators Share Posted January 27, 2007 boost is merely an indication to restriction to flow! Shhhh.... don't tell anyone I will probably have a waste-oil fired blast furnace capable of batch quantities to cast my own manifolds before the end of the year. Anxiously awaiting your results... keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 Justin - Is James Thagard still making his custom intakes? I believe for off the shelf that I know of and if time is a consideration, then Lonewolf is the way to go? Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-tom Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I have one of the Thagards units, Decided to go Rb so I dont need it. Shoot me a PM if you want it. I'll sell it for what he sold it to me for. 350.00 + shipping. Or I would do a trade for a set of your headlights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I won't vote, but you already know where my vote is...lol. The question I really have to ask you is, what kinfd of work have you done to the head? Do you have any flow numbers? As a lot of people don't understand (and I'm not implying anything towards you) is that the intake is just part of the picture. I'd be curious as to how the head is really set up and that can really help determine what you actually need. Thagards setup is a nice intake and if you can find one, is very reasonably priced (or was when he was selling them). One of the benefits of our intake is the options in runner size, length, and just about anything else you can think of. For the high powered turbo cars, we step up the runner size to allow the head to be opened up (as well as the gasket) to allow the head to flow a lot better. With a stock sized runner, you'll only get "X" cfm out of the head. When looking for quite a bit more power than stock, you're going to need a head that flows better and your setup will work much more effeciently. As mentioned before, its the difference of making 400hp @30psi vs. 600hp @30psi. If possible, I suggest finding someone that can either do the head work and the intake at the same time, or atleast is interested in knowing about your head to help suit the intake best for your application. Would I like to see you buy our intake...of course! Ultimately tho, I just want to make sure you get an intake that will work well for your setup. Anyways, if you have any questions, feel free to call or e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 "With a stock sized runner, you'll only get "X" cfm out of the head." I don't know if JeffP actually posted those numbers, but he had Nathan check the head flow alone, head with the stock manifold on it, and one with the "ultimate" intake stub on it. I don't remember his port flow, but I think the stock intake cut that down 30cfm. It's quite a bit percentage wise given his port flow. But if you don't have port work done like Spork says.... if it's not done to support AT LEAST that "X-30cfm" that JeffP found when testing the stock extrude-honed manifold, chances are a different one will not benefit you all that much. It's true! The power in the L-Engine is all in the head. Get someone who knows what they are doing and you will be amazed what you can get without massive pressure ratios on your turbo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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