subaru rack s30 inner tie rods long

[zgeezer]

I have a 93 or so Subaru Impreza rack mounted on my 240Z cross member. It is centered and the rack was machined and threaded to accept the inner tie rods from an 80 or so 280zx power steering rack. These inner tie rods are both right hand thread. I've purchased two passenger side 240z outer tie rods (the side with right hand threads) It looks good, but when I thread on the outer "female" tie rods, the inner tie rod "male" bottoms out in the outer tie rods. I don't have any adjustment travel left. Both tires have about 2 inches each of negative toe in. It appears that this rack is about 2 inches longer than the 240z: one inch on each side. Has anyone else had this problem? My Impreza rack does not look the same as some other subaru racks (Foresters) posted here. (I have photos in my hybridz album under zgeezer.) My rack tube steps down to a smaller diameter about midway: the passenger side in smaller and the driver's side is the larger. I think my cure is to cut off about 3/8 inch off the outside tie rod and to cut off a corresponding 3/8 inch off the inner tie rod's threaded rod end. Before I dismantle the rack, I'd like to hear from some of you who've made this swap. Did you have to cut the tie rods to fit the rack? Other than returning everything to a machinest, how would you go about cutting these rod ends, which I think are hardened steel. All ideas welcome. Please.

 

g

[TONY C]

do a set up like a dirt track car with a jamb nut on the inner tie rod a swedge tube another jamb a heim joint in place of the tie rod end a couple spacers and a nut bolt setup to go through the steering nuckle. check out summit racing and see the mustang bump stop tie rod replacement kit. part #cee-2418 might even swap right over. tc.

[mark]

Can you post a pic of the suspension parts on the car? I remember I had to shorten the threaded portion of my inner tie rods a bit to make it all work out.

 

Nothing done to the outer tie rods.

[JMortensen]

I think this is the idea Tony C had in mind: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=111435

[zgeezer]

Can you post a pic of the suspension parts on the car? I remember I had to shorten the threaded portion of my inner tie rods a bit to make it all work out.

 

Nothing done to the outer tie rods.

 

Mark, I've posted a number of photos of the cross-member with the Subaru rack mounted on my album. Look for zgeezer. Several show that the threaded portions of the inner tie rods extend out past the xmember's mounting pads. Are all Subaru racks created equal?

 

g

[zgeezer]

Rather than hack up the inner tie rod ends, I sectioned the outer tie rods. These are the bent pieces that run from the wheel to the inner tie rods. I cut out of each outer tie rod 1 1/16 inch from the middle. It seems to have solved the problem. Currently they are butt welded together, but once I am certain the length is right I will cut the weld and machine two flat matching surfaces on the mating end of each section. Each end will be drilled and tapped. The two pieces can then be threaded together using a small threaded rod, such as a 1/4 inch allen wrench that is threaded. Then, I'll tig weld the two together.

 

Any one out there have a better idea or some thoughts on the process.

 

g

[hoov100]

your in indio? im in palm desert... anyway.... measure your subbie rack from end to end, then measure the stock 240rack from end to end and see if its longer, worse comes to worse i know a guy that bent a new STI and ill see if i can snage the rack from him..

[NZeder]

Consider using different tie rod ends - I read on another forum somewhere (an Australian Site if I recall) that a guy used Nissan Sunny/N14 tie rods ends on the subi rack.

[zgeezer]

Conside using different tie rod ends - I read on another forum somewhere (an Australian Site if I recall) that a guy used Nissan Sunny/N14 tie rods ends on the subi rack.

 

Any one know if the Nissan Sunny was imported to US, perhaps under different badge?

 

g

[hoov100]

the datsun b1000, older nissan sentra's, nissan tsuru in mexico

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Sunny

[RUSSJZ-ZED]

Conside using different tie rod ends - I read on another forum somewhere (an Australian Site if I recall) that a guy used Nissan Sunny/N14 tie rods ends on the subi rack.

that was my post, Before you rush in, check out what racks were utillised in US. In Australia two different racks were used(australian made,and Japanese) racks were quite different to each other( and right hand drive as well)I used the Australian made one which had a tie rod end about two inches shorter than the Japanese ones.

Japanese ones were to long, not enough thick area on tie rod to re-thread.

Was not to difficult to set up, tie rods were shortened and re threaded, steering arms needed a slight reeming to match taper

Tie rod ends should not be to difficult to source, all you need is reasonably short,and inner thread that will match a re-threaded Subaru tie rod,

[zgeezer]

that was my post, Before you rush in, check out what racks were utillised in US. In Australia two different racks were used(australian made,and Japanese) racks were quite different to each other( and right hand drive as well)I used the Australian made one which had a tie rod end about two inches shorter than the Japanese ones.

Japanese ones were to long, not enough thick area on tie rod to re-thread.

Was not to difficult to set up, tie rods were shortened and re threaded, steering arms needed a slight reeming to match taper

Tie rod ends should not be to difficult to source, all you need is reasonably short,and inner thread that will match a re-threaded Subaru tie rod,

 

The thumbnail says it all. Thanks.

 

g

[RUSSJZ-ZED]

the rack I used was from a 1999-2003 subaru Liberty(Japanese assembled), 2 turns lock to lock, good feel, not too light, great for city driving,but gets a bit frisky over 110 mph(185KPH)

[zgeezer]

If the photos do not appear they are all posted on my hybridz photo album.

 

The short version of this post is that the Subaru power steering rack swap into S130 chassis may require only that the long Subaru inner tie rods be shortened and threaded to use the Subaru outer tie rod ends. The taper on my Subaru outer tie rod ends is a very close match to the steering arms on my s130. This would give you a straight inner and outer tie rod without the bend one sees in the S130 outer tie rod ends. I don't know what effect upon steering geometry a straight tie rod would have. However, I believe one could simply use a hydraulic press to bend the Subaru inner tie rod to match the S130's offset.

 

We have a post earlier in this thread showing a shortened Subaru inner tie rod threaded to accept the short Datsun "Sunny" outer tie rod. The "Sunny" was imported into the US as the Datsun 1200 in the early 70's. My parts house lists 1971 Datsun 1200 tie rod ends for less than $10.00 each.

 

Now for the longer version.

 

I purchased a '90s Subaru Impeza power rack and installed it on my S130 cross members following the suggestions of various other pioneers. I drilled and tapped the Subaru rack to accept the inner tie rod ends from the power steering rack of a 280zx. These inner rods are referred to in other posts as the EV161, which I think is a part number. I purchased two passenger side S130 outer tie rod ends to match to right hand threads of the EV161. I mocked them all up, screwed the outer rod ends up tight to the last thread of the inner tie rods and still had both wheels splayed so far out that I could not adjust for toe in. I resolved that problem by sectioning the outer tie rod ends and shortening each one by .5 inch. My machinist will true up the cut faces, turn each rod, thread them and couple them together with a threaded collar. it works without welding, but it is neither elegant nor inexpensive.

 

There are differences between the S130 rack, the Subaru power steering rack, and the S131 power steering rack. The S130 rack is on top, the Subaru is in the middle, and the S131 in the middle. Please note the following: The difference in length between the S130 and the Subaru; the difference in the two mounting pads of the S130 and the single mounting pad of the Subaru; and difference in length between the inner tie rod ends of the Subaru and S130 racks. Finally, note that, unlike the S130 rack, the Subaru rack does not have a passenger side mounting boss.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13783&ppuser=7965

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13782&ppuser=7965

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13784&ppuser=7965

 

Here are the two sectioned S130 outer tie rod ends, note that each rod has a bend. This bend is not duplicated if you use a straight shortened Subaru inner tie rod end. The lower round S130 outer tie rod end is a Nissan product; the the other is aftermarket.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13787&ppuser=7965

 

Here is a comparison between the two EV161 [280zx] inner tie rods [on top] and the Subaru inner tie rod on the bottom. Note the length and diameter of the Subaru rod.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13779&ppuser=7965

 

This photo is a comparison between the upper rack clamps of the S130 and the Subaru. From the left, the square clamp is the Subaru driver's side, the middle is the S130 [identical for both driver and passenger side] and the top passenger side Subaru clamp. Unlike the driver's side, no modifications are needed to the passenger side of the S130 cross member to mount the Subaru rack. I simply used G-force bushings, laid the Subaru rack down, and bolted the S130 upper rack clamp down. Looks neat.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13778&ppuser=7965

 

The Subaru outer tie rod end is on top compared to the S130 outer tie rod end on the bottom. A quick and dirty measurement with calipers indicated that the taper and width is so close as to be considered the same: at least "close enough for highway work".

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13788&ppuser=7965

 

This is a trial fitting of the Subaru outer tie rod into the S130 steering arm and EV161 Nissan inner tie rod. It is a fit on both ends and appears that when cinched down, I'll have three threads showing. Man, I LOOOOVE these moments. Sorry for the quality of this photo, but it shows that the Subaru outer tie rod fits the S130 steering arm on one end and matches the thread of the EV161 Nissan inner tie rod. I thought I'd died and gone to heaven, but the outer tie rod is too short, pulling the wheels in for lots of toe in.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13786&ppuser=7965

 

Now this photo is clearer and shows the angle, at full droop, of the Nissan inner and Subaru outer tie rod combination. Note that it runs parallel to the LCA. The stock s130 outer tie rod would bend down at this point. I have no idea of what, if any, effect this difference would have upon steering geometry or handling.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13785&ppuser=7965

 

This final photo shows the Subaru outer and inner placed above the s130 EV161 rod ends. The Subaru tie rods, both inner and outer, change the shape of their cross section, from round to rectangular and, then, to octogonal. The portion of the Subaru just above the end of the EV161 is octogonal and this is about where that rod should be cut. There appears to be enough meat left to cut threads for the outer Subaru tie rod end and still have wrench flats for adjustment.

 

http://album.hybridz.org/showphoto.php?photo=13780&ppuser=7965

 

Time to go. I've only an hour left to get in a lap or two of autox at our fairgrounds.

 

g

[NZeder]

the rack I used was from a 1999-2003 subaru Liberty(Japanese assembled), 2 turns lock to lock, good feel, not too light, great for city driving,but gets a bit frisky over 110 mph(185KPH)

Maybe you should consider some sort of electronic control box + Vehicle Speed Sensor + a flow solenoid to restrict the assist at higher speeds (this is what most modern cars uses these days ie 300zx, MR2 etc). I have been thinking about PS for my zed, given the larger tyres and suspension setup I will be running. Good to see threads like this.

[RUSSJZ-ZED]

Maybe you should consider some sort of electronic control box + Vehicle Speed Sensor + a flow solenoid to restrict the assist at higher speeds (this is what most modern cars uses these days ie 300zx, MR2 etc). I have been thinking about PS for my zed, given the larger tyres and suspension setup I will be running. Good to see threads like this.

There is a Subaru rack I am chasing down at the moment, When hooked up through a control, only needs a couple of resistors to give" light" for city driving, flick a switch and it "heavies up "for the highway, Only really need the two "feels" , but through a speed sensor would probably even it out.

What I have done , as the car is a cruiser, I live in the inner (inner!) city(Sydney)works great, but to the unprepared,(This has happened) with 2 turns lock to lock, it's quite easy to move the wheel an inch, and instead of overtaking, be up someones driveway on the other side of the road! It is POWER power steering!I love it, my friend ,who will never drive it again, will recover in time.(nerves that shot,shoud not be driving! )

Zgeezer, if I had read that long version before I went power- I wouldn't have! It is easier than that.

[zgeezer]

There is a Subaru rack I am chasing down at the moment, When hooked up through a control, only needs a couple of resistors to give" light" for city driving, flick a switch and it "heavies up "for the highway, Only really need the two "feels" , but through a speed sensor would probably even it out.

What I have done , as the car is a cruiser, I live in the inner (inner!) city(Sydney)works great, but to the unprepared,(This has happened) with 2 turns lock to lock, it's quite easy to move the wheel an inch, and instead of overtaking, be up someones driveway on the other side of the road! It is POWER power steering!I love it, my friend ,who will never drive it again, will recover in time.(nerves that shot,shoud not be driving! )

Zgeezer, if I had read that long version before I went power- I wouldn't have! It is easier than that.

 

 

Actually, the Subaru rack mounts quite simply. All the real work is in modifying the driver's side mount. I hope my first post made that clear. As you can see from the photos, I had the entire Subaru rack, inner tie rod, and outer tie rod ends laid out before me. I could have just tried to fit the Subaru outer tie rod into the s30 steering arm. By the way, since you are running the straight Subaru inner tie rod, have you experienced any suspension interference or bump steer [or for that matter any lack of bump steer]?

 

Somewhere on this forum, I believe there is a thread that addresses the sensitivity of power steering at speed. It seems to me that there is a simple mechanical cure related to restricting flow on the pressure side or some such thing or newer pumps being rpm sensitive. It's worth some time on "search" or someone might chime in with link.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

g

[RUSSJZ-ZED]

zero bump steer.

The restrictor sounds like a good easy fix,but wouldn't it also increase weight required to turn at slow speeds as well? -taking the power off right across the range?

[zgeezer]

There is a Subaru rack I am chasing down at the moment, When hooked up through a control, only needs a couple of resistors to give" light" for city driving, flick a switch and it "heavies up "for the highway, Only really need the two "feels" , but through a speed sensor would probably even it out.

What I have done , as the car is a cruiser, I live in the inner (inner!) city(Sydney)works great, but to the unprepared,(This has happened) with 2 turns lock to lock, it's quite easy to move the wheel an inch, and instead of overtaking, be up someones driveway on the other side of the road! It is POWER power steering!I love it, my friend ,who will never drive it again, will recover in time.(nerves that shot,shoud not be driving! )

Zgeezer, if I had read that long version before I went power- I wouldn't have! It is easier than that.

 

Street rodders using the Ford power steering rack and GM power steering pump report "twitchy" handling at speed. Here is a common cure:

 

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/5852,932_Mustang-II-Power-Steering-Flow-Valve.html

 

I'll bet something like this will address your problem.

 

g

[zgeezer]

I have a 93 or so Subaru Impreza rack mounted on my 240Z cross member. It is centered and the rack was machined and threaded to accept the inner tie rods from an 80 or so 280zx power steering rack. These inner tie rods are both right hand thread. I've purchased two passenger side 240z outer tie rods (the side with right hand threads) It looks good, but when I thread on the outer "female" tie rods, the inner tie rod "male" bottoms out in the outer tie rods. I don't have any adjustment travel left. Both tires have about 2 inches each of negative toe in. It appears that this rack is about 2 inches longer than the 240z: one inch on each side. Has anyone else had this problem? My Impreza rack does not look the same as some other subaru racks (Foresters) posted here. (I have photos in my hybridz album under zgeezer.) My rack tube steps down to a smaller diameter about midway: the passenger side in smaller and the driver's side is the larger. I think my cure is to cut off about 3/8 inch off the outside tie rod and to cut off a corresponding 3/8 inch off the inner tie rod's threaded rod end. Before I dismantle the rack, I'd like to hear from some of you who've made this swap. Did you have to cut the tie rods to fit the rack? Other than returning everything to a machinest, how would you go about cutting these rod ends, which I think are hardened steel. All ideas welcome. Please.

 

g

 

 

Bearing in mind that I modified [transmogrified] my Subaru rack ends by machining them to accept the Datsun 280ZX inner rods [EV162]. If you have

a stock Subaru rack with stock Subaru inner rods, this update does not affect you.

 

I just dumped the sectioned 240Z outer tie rod ends in the trash. I am using the stock Subaru OUTER tie rod ends. The taper appears to be very close to the taper of the Datsun steering arms. The Subaru tie rod ends are about two inches shorter than the sectioned 240Z outer tie rod ends I just trashed. My machinest is now cutting two couplers of mild steel rod that are threaded on one end to fit into the Subaru outer tie rod end and drilled and tapped on the other end to accept the EV162 inner tie rod.

 

This is an elegant solution for a problem I created by machining the Subaru rack ends to accept the EV162 inner tie rods.

 

If your Subaru rack is stock, then all you must do is shorten the inner tie rod ends to fit.

 

g