G.I.jonas Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 More wagon Vette's. Man those thngs are hieous. spirit garage Z: Now i like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 Notice the hood flex in this low-speed video: This is an Ultra-thin fiberglass hood... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collectindust240Z Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 That thing is soooo bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texis30O Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 that hood can't last long at all........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatRaveR Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Supposedly starring Vince Vaughn as Rex Racer/Racer X... The movie Racer X will be a separate character from Rex Racer, and will be played by Lost's Matthew Fox. I do wonder if any of these 70's aero mods would be of any benefit to the S130's, or if the already-improved aerodynamics of the S130 are too different to see any gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowz Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 wagon vettes ahh haahahahaha. That was a new experience for me, and one I won't soon forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Just found this post and I can't believe how off topic this has gone - from 70's Japanese Aero to a station wagon Vette---WTF how did that happen. I would like to know more about period specs and the different setups that were tried during the 70's. So back on topic - Alan thanks for posting those pics in the beginning I always love to see period photos of Zcars be they JDM racers, Europe or USA. It is just amazing to see the different approaches that were taken to try to improve things. I have seen may guys in the 90's try different things with aero on zcars, some only to do what has been pointed out in this thread - ie fully enclose/duct to the raditor (after trying the laying down, different radiator etc). So this has been good to see these pics, I am sure I will be looking at them over and over again many times. I am sure all these different aero changes is what lead to the difference in the ZG lower section to include the fins/ducts to the radiator for release to the general public? I have a question - off topic with regard to the aero but related to the period mods - I see the cars (in period) are running either 14" or maybe 15" (hard to tell) but what size rubber/rims were used on the ZG type B aero packages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 I am sure all these different aero changes is what lead to the difference in the ZG lower section to include the fins/ducts to the radiator for release to the general public? Mike, The factory race cars ( and for that matter most of the privateer team cars ) didn't use the ducts that were seen on the second generation ( 1972 ) Fairlady 240ZG road model. The ducts were added to the road cars in response to overheating / fuel percolation issues connected to the cars that were fitted with aircon as standard equipment. The cars were found to be suffering from the overheating / fuel perc issues in heavy summer season traffic ( but not on clear open roads ) and the ducts were added in an effort to effect a cure. They were nothing to do with homologating extra parts for the race cars, even though they look that way inclined. I have a question - off topic with regard to the aero but related to the period mods - I see the cars (in period) are running either 14" or maybe 15" (hard to tell) but what size rubber/rims were used on the ZG type B aero packages? Best if I e-mail you about this direct, as I have some photos and data on specific examples to show you that might help with any possible scrutineering hiccups on your car........ Cheers, Alan T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29PGC10 Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 This tread realy drifted away.... some more pictures of ducting on period race cars. m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Alan, as I'm preparing my car for competing in rally events, I'd like to bring it as close as possible to the original group 4 specification (a few months ago you decoded my VIN and wrote that my car was from around october '71, so '71 or '72 specification would be logical). The question is, do you know if the rally cars had any aerodynamical enhacements? I'm sorry if this sounds stupid, but my technical English is rather limited to say the least... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 The question is, do you know if the rally cars had any aerodynamical enhacements? There was almost nothing 'aero' related on the Works Rally cars, I'm afraid. Just about the only concession to downforce or air treament / utilisation was in the rear spoilers, and only the later cars were fitted with them ( and even that depended on the event ). Fact is, there were other more important issues for them to be addressing on the cars and aero was quite low down on the list of priorities. The amount of time spent at the highest speeds on European mainland events ( gravel, snow, tarmac and mixed stages ) was low, and events with occasional sustained high speed sections ( such as the Safari Rally ) also had sections where aero additions could get in the way or risk retirement through damage. So, there's not much I'm afraid - but that could well be a blessing for you when you are building a rally car. Lots of other things for you to worry about getting right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Most of the rally cars that I've seen did not have the rear spoiler. I can't recall a single Works Datsun that had one... Have you got any pictures of it mounted on a rally car? By "Aero enhacements" I meant cool air ducting around the engine bay rather than any external elements. If I remember correctly, a privately entered Japanese Fairlady Z that took part in Tour de Corse had a set of fiberglass wing extensions, probably 240ZG units (though I have nothing to back that hypothesis up, except for two pictures). Apart from that I didn't see anything that would be even close to what the race cars had. But as you said, it's nothing bad - I have lots of other things to worry about... Now that the car has a cage built in, I hope it's going to get easier from now on. Thank you Alan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZeder Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Here are some more of those fins fitted to the S30. Also note the large drop tank? Or is that a kind of diffuser on the rear? I am leaning towards the drop tank idea as you can see the different GT40 style fuel filler on the side of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 That's a gas tank. I don't even think F1 was using diffusers in the early 70s. This is really the very beginning of trying to use aero to produce downforce and I think it took quite a while for the things that CanAm and F1 was doing to trickle down to the lower racing classes. Looking at these old pictures to try and justify your own use on a vintage race car is OK, but looking at these to try and figure out what the best aero solution is might not be the wisest move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 especially since people tuning the same cars to produce considerably better downforce by todays standards are employing entirely different aero tech into new designs of old cars. a friend was in my garage the other day and said "this is a 76? but look at it... it's so aerodynamic!" to which i replied "aerobatic, maybe. it could probably do a backflp if if i made it try hard enough" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Looking at these old pictures to try and justify your own use on a vintage race car is OK, but looking at these to try and figure out what the best aero solution is might not be the wisest move. "....to try and justify....." ? What a strange way of putting it. You make it sound as though building and using a period-correct and period-legal race car is in some way just a strange affectation. When all is said and done, the "best aero solution" is to start off with another car entirely........ Perhaps something designed and built within the last two or three years, instead of something nearing forty years old? especially since people tuning the same cars to produce considerably better downforce by todays standards are employing entirely different aero tech into new designs of old cars. "....new designs of old cars." ? That one went straight over my head, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 Most of the rally cars that I've seen did not have the rear spoiler. I can't recall a single Works Datsun that had one... Have you got any pictures of it mounted on a rally car? Here's a rear spoiler ( standard Japanese market part, also seen on certain Export market models ) on one of the works 1972 East African Safari Rally 240Zs, as an example: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 "....to try and justify....." ? What a strange way of putting it. You make it sound as though building and using a period-correct and period-legal race car is in some way just a strange affectation. I've seen several vintage racers try and justify usage of this transmission or those brakes. They don't always get what they want. So yes, they are "trying" to justify it and they don't always succeed. When all is said and done, the "best aero solution" is to start off with another car entirely........ Perhaps something designed and built within the last two or three years, instead of something nearing forty years old? Sure, using a new car is a very wise idea from an aero perspective. If one assumes that being on a Z site people will be using old Z cars, then I would stand by my statement that race car aerodynamics were in their infancy in 1970, and trying to look to those cars for "good" aero modifications to your currently raced older Z is counterproductive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Here's a rear spoiler ( standard Japanese market part, also seen on certain Export market models ) on one of the works 1972 East African Safari Rally 240Zs, as an example: Thank you Alan! I have the same spoiler on my car, so I'll have to decide whether I should use it or not. I think I'll take it off... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HS30-H Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I've seen several vintage racers try and justify usage of this transmission or those brakes. They don't always get what they want. So yes, they are "trying" to justify it and they don't always succeed. If they were "trying" to use parts that the scrutineers didn't know should be legal ( because of period homologation / use ), then they would need evidence to back up their claim. Either it is eligible / legal or its not. I don't see how wilful ignorance is going to help anybody. Sounds to me like you resent their very existence (?). Sure, using a new car is a very wise idea from an aero perspective. If one assumes that being on a Z site people will be using old Z cars, then I would stand by my statement that race car aerodynamics were in their infancy in 1970, and trying to look to those cars for "good" aero modifications to your currently raced older Z is counterproductive. I started this thread as part of the Windtunnel test section, as I believed a little look back at what had been done in the past was both relevant and interesting, and something could be learned from it. You might have noiticed that the 'G-nose' used in the Windtunnel tests was nothing like a factory item, and contained no ducting ( as seen on the factory race cars ) whatsoever. I don't think you have to look too far for "good" ideas, and - as far as history goes - only a fool would ignore such information wilfully. But then looking back at things done in the past is sometimes risky on HybridZ. You might get labelled as a "Purist" by a New Puritan....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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