240z Time Attack /Drag Project: VQ35 or VG30?

[Doc Hawk]

I have started a build I've called Alpha Omega, with the idea of gracing the original Z car with the powerplant from the latest incarnation, the 350z. That means a VQ35DE in a 1970 240z. Money *is* an object, so I have to keep the use of the check-wrench to a minimum. My costs are primarily parts and finishing labor, as I will farm out the finishing body/paint work when I have the frame stripped for the rollcage.

 

The goal of the build is to create a time attack car: good rotation through the turns and acceleration off the corner. I also want a 0-60 time under 3.5 seconds, as I will street the car and I look forward to accelerating up to the speed limit very quickly from a standing start. I have the car down to about 2025 lbs with an L28, and I'm anticipating some additional weight savings with the modern V6. I believe that 0-60 in 3.4 is not unreasonable in a 2000 lb car.

 

The question for you experienced Nissan powerplant folks out there (this is my first Nissan build; my daily driver AE Maxima has a stock engine with your basic bolt-ons) is whether I should stay focused on the VQ35, or can I reach my targets with a built VG30DETT? VQ drivetrains (I am shopping for the engine, harness, computer, and tranny) are still fairly rare, and pricey. Complete VG TT drivetrains, on the other hand, have had more time in the hands of tuners, and have also been around long enough to have fairly stable populations in salvage yards (and side yards). I can buy a whole running 300ZX with a VG30TT for much less than I've found a VQ setup. That savings is significant to me, and frees up funds for the rear end, suspension, and engine/turbo upgrades.

 

I had planned all along to go with the VQ35 using a twin turbo kit, and that is where my research was centered. I figured that I could get about 450 HP to the rears with a nice flat torque curve using a very reasonable boost. Obviously at that point the problem will be putting the power on the pavement, but in terms of output potential, how much would I be losing with the VG engine? I am concerned that I won't be able to generate the torque I am looking for that I need to slay snakes (Vipers, Cobras, and all those other dragons!).

 

Thoughts and insight much appreciated.

 

Doc Hawk / David in San Diego

 

 

[Pete84]

A VG30DETT has been put into a 280Z. Almost done but for the steering rack according to the thread.

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117977

[Mack]

get a front clip of a japanese market cedric with a VQ30DET. built for boost from teh factory, and last I heard, Venus-auto.com was selling the front clip for $1500. wick the boost up, bigger injectors and other BPUs and call it a day.

[Guest Alcamo86]

The VQ35DE will be expensive to turbo and to tune if youre not doing everything yourself.

 

You can easily get 450hp out of the engine though with your basic turbo or twin turbo setup. Kits for the 350Z are 4-6 grand but you piece one together for half that fairly easily. The stock internals are good for 450whp reliably.

 

Im going to guess you could break your 0-60 foot time goal with that setup as a lot of the guys in the 500whp club for 350z's run very low 12's and high 11's on street tires. Granted, your 240 probably wont have 19-20 inch rims but it will be almost a thousand pounds lighter.

 

Check out my350z.com - Lots of good VQ35DE info.

[TheNeedForZ]

welcome to the forum, both of you : Doc Hawk and Alcamo86

[Doc Hawk]

Thanks for the feedback and the welcome. I had really concentrated my efforts & research on the VQ35 since the original goal of the build was to do the latest engine in the earliest Z. However, with the 3.7 coming out soon, that will be a moot point eventually anyway. Therefore, I am focusing on the performance and cost aspects of the build (reality, she's a *B*).

 

Based upon some good input and some promising initial research, I am now looking closely at a VQ30DE-K mated to a 350z 6-speed transmission. The VQ series offers the lightweight solution I am looking for, and although it is a sacrifice of a half liter displacement off my original plan, the engine is free-revving and strong. I need to confirm with more research, but as I understand it people have achieved reliable builds up to 450 HP with stock internals on the -K motors, which came in the '00-'01 Maxima and I30. These motors are available for about $500 retail, and perhaps cheaper via private part-out.

 

That's a massive savings compared to the going rate on a long block VQ35. It would leave me a lot of room in the budget for the aftermarket TT kit. I have not looked into the kit yet - any suggestions?

 

I will indeed be doing the turbo installation and tuning myself, so those costs are not significant. My friends at Rev'd Up Kustomz in San Diego are helping me with the build, and they are well known in the region for their turbo tuning expertise.

 

Anyone seen a VQ30 swap into a 1st gen Z? I'll be doing a search next.

 

Thanks,

David

[CantZme]

why the vq30de-k? the vq30de has standard intake manifold unlike the variable intake manifold on the k which uses a solenoid to open/close... I'm thinking the earlier vq30de's are better candidates because they are plentiful, cheap and don't use any variable intake manifolds, so complexity is down to a minimum, since you are going turbo. They are extremely cheap and a couple of guys are seeing 500whp on stock blocks. I assume that if you can mate a vq30de-k to a z33 6speed, then this should be possible(the only difference between the two is the manifold and a more aggressive cam on the k)

[Doc Hawk]

I like not only the intake, but also the cam in the DE-K. The only concern will be turbo suitability, as the high RPM intake opening may actually lose some of my boost (it could become a vent instead of an intake). If that is the case I can simply disable the solenoid while still benefitting from the better cam profile.

 

All of this is still up in the air - if the standard DE cam will give me a flatter torque curve, I'll probably go with that. I need to see some dyno sheets, which are always a lot rarer than the guy saying, "I'm making 500 HP!" As for me, I'm more interested in a moderate boost that won't blow the engine after 10K miles.

 

David

[Pete84]

get a front clip of a japanese market cedric with a VQ30DET. built for boost from teh factory, and last I heard, Venus-auto.com was selling the front clip for $1500. wick the boost up, bigger injectors and other BPUs and call it a day.

Wow, front clip for a VQ30DET?? How many parts are interchangable with the US VG motors?

 

Is it possible to use and tune the stock motor or is a standalone needed?

[Mack]

Im sure you could use the stock ECU if you wired it properly. its a VQ,, not a VG. a VQ is a few pounds lighter than a VG because its aluminum. and there is sooooo much you can do to the VQ, as tuners are just starting to mess around with it.

 

it comes in newer Y34 (chassis code) cedrics. It is RWD and it comes with a 5spd AT behind it. I am sure that the 350Z 6spd and clutch assembly would bolt on no problem tho.

[Gareth]

While there should be no problem with bolting the 350Z transmission to any other VQ block, the ECU could become an issue... Remember, most of these newer engines need a signal from the original auto transmission to operate properly, which means that you'll either need a good piggyback, or a complete standalone management system, which could push the overall cost to a much higher lever than planned.

[e_racer1999]

i LOVE the VQ motors. they make great power and are a little lighter than the VG because they are all aluminum. but, like has been said before, unless you plan on fabbing up turbo manifolds yourself (which would be pretty dope), a turbo VQ build is gonna be pricey. they are high comp motors, so you will also be looking at some lower comp pistons. to make good reliable power, it's gonna be a bit pricey.

 

although the VQ as an NA motor makes some nice power....

[e_racer1999]

While there should be no problem with bolting the 350Z transmission to any other VQ block, the ECU could become an issue... Remember, most of these newer engines need a signal from the original auto transmission to operate properly, which means that you'll either need a good piggyback, or a complete standalone management system, which could push the overall cost to a much higher lever than planned.

 

well, SOME of the VQ blocks (FWD ones from the maxima/I30/I35) would require swapping of the crankshaft of a RWD VQ (J30/G35/F35/350Z) to mate to a RWD tranny

[Mack]

well, e-racer, the VQ30DET does come turbo from the factory.

 

as far s the ECU thing, megasquirt the bastard. of course, thats my solution for everything.

[e_racer1999]

well, e-racer, the VQ30DET does come turbo from the factory.

 

as far s the ECU thing, megasquirt the bastard. of course, thats my solution for everything.

 

yes, but it's not as easily available as the VQ30/35DEs are.... or are they??? if so, where can i get one??

 

and yes, megasquirt is the way to go

[johnc]

If your goal is a good handling track car (Time Attack), you'll need to mount that VQ as far back and down in the chassis as possible. From my measurements the VQ is about 5" longer from the front pulley to the shifter position (assuming you're going to use the Nissan 6 speed). That will put the shifter 8 to 12" further behind the stock location in the 240Z.

 

You'll also need to fabricate or find a rear sump oil pan (or go dry sump), fabricate the entire exhaust system, check on accessory drive clearance over the front crossmember, check hood clearance (the VQ is a tall engine), and do all the other chassis updates required for 450hp in the 240Z chassis.

 

Money *is* an object, so I have to keep the use of the check-wrench to a minimum.

 

If you want something that drives under its own power, you can probably do this for about $20,000. If you truly want a track car, figure $32,000. Better start polishing up that check wrench.

[David K]

A VG30DETT has been put into a 280Z. Almost done but for the steering rack according to the thread.

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=117977

 

Its been done YEARS ago by Greg Dupree of Specialty Z. http://www.specialtyz.com/aboutus.htm Street driven for many years.

[Mack]

venus-auto can get them whenever you need them for $1500 for a front clip.

 

the single turbo will make for some clearance problems with the crossover pipe. however, if you ditch all but the alternator, you probably could route the turbo plumbing in front of the motor.

 

on the shifter thing, I have no idea how to solve that other than maybe getting a pathfinder 5spd? I knwo the VQ35DE made its first appearance in the 200.5 pathys, but as the whether they were ONLY 4wd or if there was a 2wd variant? no idea.

[JMortensen]

There was another thread where they were showing pics of the 6 speed trans next to a 5 speed. There was a shifter extension thing that looked like it could be easily unbolted from the rear of the transmission and would make the distance probably 10" shorter than stock, judging by the pictures. Anyone really interested might dig up that old thread.