oinojo Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj2nlF1hkEc&mode=related&search= Ive been part of the honda scene for quite some time now and thought that this maybe something worth looking into. Its a block brace designed by Spoon. Just thought that maybe something like this could benefit the L motor seeing as its not one of the smoothest inline 6's around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 http://youtube.com/watch?v=nj2nlF1hkEc&mode=related&search= Ive been part of the honda scene for quite some time now and thought that this maybe something worth looking into. Its a block brace designed by Spoon. Just thought that maybe something like this could benefit the L motor seeing as its not one of the smoothest inline 6's around. this could be designed for any motor, really. but then you'd have to get stronger rods and possibly stronger wrist pins to take all that thrashing. not to mention a lightweight and beefed up valvetrain so that the valves dont heat up and stretch themselves when smacking the seat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oinojo Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 this could be designed for any motor, really. but then you'd have to get stronger rods and possibly stronger wrist pins to take all that thrashing. not to mention a lightweight and beefed up valvetrain so that the valves dont heat up and stretch themselves when smacking the seat. yeah, im trying to find a way to make the L motor turn smoother. It would be awesome to build an L series to go up 10,000rpms. Im going to see if i can make up a design using CAD and apply it to this motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 So what alloy should this L6 brace be made from? I may be interested in designing one. Even though the L6 is an incredibly strong block you have to know there is some flexing going on with the length of an L6 block. You would have to have a LOT of HP before you would need to think of needing one of these. Supposedly L series have been up to 9000 RPMs in Japan (L20a crank?) but I couldn't imagine they would last long. Is it too far fetched that an RB26 cradle could fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76s30 Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 they have those for rb's already it add's about 1/2" to the pan rail. But prevents the block from cracking between 5 and 6. this only happens above 700 hp. It ties all the manins directly to the block skirt. Electromotive alos used one of these in the z31 race car. OTM it should be made of the same material as the block or a material with very close expansion rate. after all its what holds the crank, as it is only a main girdle. VG's already have something like this but it doesn't tie into the pan rail. it just connects the mains to help with block flex. Hell even the old d15 12 valve in my 87 crx had a main girdle. but again it didn't tie into the pan rail. And before you try and figure out how to get the bottom end to stay together worry about getting a head to flow well enough to support 10k on an L. toyota 4age's hold together to 11k with out such devices but they are iron blocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 And before you try and figure out how to get the bottom end to stay together worry about getting a head to flow well enough to support 10k on an L. Ah yes... the quest for a better design for the head. I'm working on that... and I'm going to need all the reinforcement I can get. So you would need to make a casting. What if you made the castings from a melted down L series block? maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Supposedly L series have been up to 9000 RPMs in Japan (L20a crank?) but I couldn't imagine they would last long. "Supposedly"? I'll take issue with the inference, since we spin ours to 9500 when dyno testing, and it's making peak power slightly over 8800rpm. Shift points in competition is between 9300 and 9500, depending on the gear. We should be going to the dyno next week if all goes well. Maybe I can video it and post something on YouTube as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONZTER Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 has anyone seen this? http://www.grit-tune.com/part.html translation: It is largest fault of the direct 6 engines, it is the new product in order engine block twist it accompanies, to prevent the bending of the crank. The plate is inserted during engine block and the oil pan, by the fact that the vibration of the engine is absorbed, substantial improvement of durability is brought. Processing which accompanies the installation of the lower deck plate you receive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 From what I understood from the video, the block brace is designed to lower the engine block vibrations in a Honda aluminum block. But, the L series block is cast iron, which means it absorbs the vibrations much better than an aluminum block. Taking that into consideration, is it worth to install a block brace ina a over-9k L-gata engine? Monzter, that's a great website, I'll have to translate it and check it out... EDIT: I've just converted the block brace's price = 60000yen, and it seems that the cost should be around 500 bucks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 "Supposedly"? I'll take issue with the inference, since we spin ours to 9500 when dyno testing, and it's making peak power slightly over 8800rpm. Shift points in competition is between 9300 and 9500, depending on the gear. We should be going to the dyno next week if all goes well. Maybe I can video it and post something on YouTube as well.... Wow Tony!! I knew you spun yours high bit I didn't know it was that high!! I officially insert foot into mouth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 That brace may have some merit on Turbo Applications, I could see them benging enough HP on each cylinder (100+) to really start some twisting. Then again, they usually aren't doing it at much over 7000rpms. Hmmmmm, 8500rpm Turbo L-Engine....hmmmmmmmmmmmm... As for Video, I just realized I have two in-car videos of the thing, and you can see the shiftlight to bang the next gear...it actuates at the aforementioned 93-9500rpms. I just need to edit down the file to the time we are actually making the run and not in the staging lanes and waiting for a tow in the return lanes at theend of the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIM73240Z Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 tony, what specificlly did you do to prep the crank to get it to spin that fast. what harmonic dampener - bhj? 9000+rpms is quite impressive jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Tony, please post that video! I need to hear an L near 10k. I don't think you've mentioned what valvetrain tricks done to run those revs. Hopefully it isn't a proprietary secret. If so, just pm details to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76s30 Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 well it would be prefed that you make the piece from not cast. so the block alloy would need to be analyzed and a sutiable alloy of steel would be chosen and machined from a solid block. after all if your puting that much effort in to it go all the way and do it right. Then you'd at least have a cnc program you could make more. but it still would need to be installed and line bored honed on each individual block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 "I don't think you've mentioned what valvetrain tricks done to run those revs. " No, I have not. Suprisingly little and less than most would think. This engine wsa assembled in a two car garage in Clairmont CA, same as the 2.8 run in the car in past seasons. People think they need super exotic this-or-that made of unobtanium...you don't. The best example I can site as to what the engine has is "Look at a competitve ITS L24 Build" JohnC made some comments about what it takes to get 208HP from an L24 that by rule and definition can't use anything not there in the same form that made 115HP.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlderThanMe Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Tony, I would like to see that thread! I searched, looked through all of JohnC's threads, his website, and general searches on here. Do you have a link? Thanks! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 L24 engines have been running to 9,000 rpms for decades in road racing applicaitons. These are not street engines that go for 100K miles but prepared race engines that operate for 15 hours before a refresh, which would be 1,500 miles if the car was run at 100 miles per hour for that time. Same is true for the 10,000 rpm Honda engine in the video above. Very, few people (maybe 10 in the US) are willing to put in the time, effort, and money to actually build a 9,000 rpm racing L6 engine. Same is true for an IT legal 208 hp L24. Its mostly a bench racing thing. Race away boys and watch out for splinters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 Yep! People think those Hondas are some K daily driver engine, when in reality they are full on F-1 Technology from the 60's or early 70's before they went Turbo. Those engines lasted qualifying and a race, maybe. We will be into the L at the end of the season. Just to check. The L28 being twisted to 8700 went four seasons, and when it was pulled down the piston pins had walked to touch the cylinder bores. Everybody who saw it said the same thing: "Never Seen That Before!" Pressed in pins walking to the cylinder walls. Think the small end went egg-shaped from all that beating, allowing the pins to walk? Meeeeyeaaah! I mean, Nissan Rods guys. Nissan Rods from two different L20B Trucks to be specific. Not Merchart 570 Gram Investment Cast Racing rods.... Nissan Rods... It truly is amazing what the stock stuff will take if you simply make sure it's all right when it goes together. Benchracing for sure, as John stated, but there is a valid point: People, and new kids in general, look for some panacea bolt-on super special part that will give them this power. My response is always the same: Look at those ITS engines. There is power there, you just have to find it! If you start your quest for power by going after thesame things the ITS guys do, you will be LOADS ahead when you do start bolting things into the engine like a Cam, or bigger carburetion, etc. Sweat the details first, and the power comes later. And when it does, it is far more reliable that something bolted onto a non-optimized lump. I really should get an hourmeter to install on the engine, so we can see how long the thing has been at speed. The Bonneville Run is far more a nail-biting drive because you are wailing at redline (or near it) for literally miles... I can't wait to setup for THAT video! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 any info on this "ITS" tony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Posted July 6, 2007 Share Posted July 6, 2007 No John and Tony, I wasn't asking if there was some super duper widget. If there was, it would only be available in Japan anyway... I was curious if there was any special prep work or machining, like rocker profiling or lightening, some nutty valvespring design, etc -that sort of thing. Something beyond what all the Datsun books originally written in the 70's detail for race engine prep. 20-30 years is an eternity in the racing world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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