rudypoochris Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Today I went down to the local welding supply shop and let the guy know I wanted to get itno welding on up to 3/16 maybe 1/4" steel. He recommended the Power Mig 140C by Lincoln. This seems like a sweet welder for what I need as it can do alluminum, has plenty of power, all that kind of stuff. It was $770 at the store though (way high imho). I see them on Ebay for $550 ish, but I am wondering if there is anything more economical that you guys would recommend. I was under the impression that there are cheaper welders out there that will serve my needs (24ga to 3/16"). Am I wrong? I like the aluminum capability though and I haven't had much luck finding it in other MIGs. Any pointers in the right direction would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=K2471-1 I hate to be the bearer of the truth here but... Ill BET your dreaming if you thinking a 140 amp mig flux core mig will weld aluminum thicker than thin gauge sheet metal effectively. its a 120 volt household power welder! Ive never seen anything but a 220 volt and 180 amp or larger mig do much on aluminum just because the necessary heat is not there to effectively work with aluminum, and generally youll need a tank of sheilding gas (argon) to work with aluminum its probably fine for most steel and stainless on a car but ID be looking for a larger amp rated mig with a 220V feed for aluminum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Well aluminum is a minor thing. Big scope, I am just looking for a more economical MIG welder that is quality and what I need 24ga to 3/16". Also, if I do weld alluminum it wouldn't be anything more than thin sheet so that would work fine. I should have specified, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 I couldn't agree with you more Grumpy! To go a little further, I would use a spoolgun to avoid the necessity of changing wire in the MIG and the need to MAKE SURE the hose stays straight (and even THEN still have feeding problems because aluminum wire is just SO SOFT to be trying to put through 10 feet of hose). Now spoolguns run >$550, and if you have one of the 175/180 machines (or lower) from Miller, they have an adapter to allow you to control a spoolgun (~$260). The 210/212 class machine from Miller and higher have provision to attach the spoolgun directly to the machine. I myself made the decision that I was not going to be doing any aluminum work, so 5 years ago I bought the Millermatic 175. At the time, I WAS considering the 210 - which had a spoolgun thrown in for free - but the total was another $600 or so, and like I said - I really didn't intend to do aluminum. I personally think that for the hobbyist who needs aluminum capability, that a TIG setup is the ticket - thick or thin, it doesn't matter. My reasoning is that you are going to be making something that more than likely is gonna be highly visible and you want great/pretty welds (intakes/intercoolers/brackets) and there is just a lot more control with the TIG setup. When I think of MIG for aluminum, I'm thinking production of trailers and tool boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted July 21, 2007 Author Share Posted July 21, 2007 Well in that case, forget about alluminum and MIG. Recommendations for a welder a little bit less powerful than the 140C that is still a quality inexpensive unit? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 My .02.... adjusted for inflation = ) If you were thinking about the 140c for $770 (that cant be right, WAY high) and want to do some aluminum, how about the Lincoln 180c, which is a 180 amp (duh, lol) for ~$720??! I dont remember the exact price I can get that down to, but $720 is approximate, and it lists for $900. I could also do the 140c for a good deal. Both have a decent hobby-quality spoolgun available for $200, (no additional money for the adapter, comes with the spoolgun) might even be able to adjust that down a few bucks as well. Miller's intermediate spoolgun is pricey for its quality IMO, and is around $500. I am also currently more impressed with the low-end Lincoln welders than I am with Millers, though you would be fine with either. If you decide to go for a less expensive option, I would watch Ebay and local retailers for sales on Lincoln, Miller, and Hobart 110-volt welders. With the new models out and doing well... someone has to be overstocked on the prior models and looking to unload. I am in Iowa, so shipping is something to consider, but I am happy to help anyone from HybridZ out. (I am not a commissioned sales rep, so I gain nothing but a good feeling for this. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240zV8 Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 u can get a new MM175 for $700. I got one with a cart for $715. It's a pleasure welding with it, u can get the heat and speed dialed in perfect for whatever u want really. U shouldn't even consider getting just a flux welder, mig is the way to go for hobby work. I think any of the smaller machines (mm135, 140, lincoln 140's etc) will all be great for stuff other than heavy duty/stress/load material. U can get manufacture blemish models for cheap if u look around. Steer clear of the no name welders though, it's nice to be able to just goto the welding store and them having all ur parts in stock in case u need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 So the consensus is that the Lincol 140 or Millermatic 140 are the way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 "So the consensus is that the Lincol 140 or Millermatic 140 are the way to go? I think in the long run youll be MUCH HAPPIER with a 180 amp 220 volt mig it makes FAR MORE sence too spend a little more up front than to buy the 140 amp 120 volt model and then need to upgrade (which you most certainly will if you stay into welding) look, Ive played with a bunch of welders and those 100-140 amp 120 volt welders are just basically toys that can get the job done in skilled hands ,in MANY but not nearly all cases, if your only talking 1/4" or less steel http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=K2473-1 http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=500527 http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907312 http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=500526 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 "So the consensus is that the Lincol 140 or Millermatic 140 are the way to go? I think in the long run youll be MUCH HAPPIER with a 180 amp 220 volt mig it makes FAR MORE sence too spend a little more up front than to buy the 140 amp 120 volt model and then need to upgrade (which you most certainly will if you stay into welding) http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=K2473-1 http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=500527 http://www.welders-direct.com/merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WD&Product_Code=907312 I agree with Grumpy, mostly because I hear it almost everyday from customers, especially those on a budget who already bought some flavor of 110-volt welder. Collision repair shops have a tendency to run 110-volt, but I am selling a lot of the various 180's to shops, because the higher heat range and slightly better control speeds up their work. If you intend to finish this project, and then get out of the garage and on to other interests, buy the 140 auto or 140c. If you anticipate years of metal working, get a 180. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted July 22, 2007 Author Share Posted July 22, 2007 I plan on using it for the 240z primarily and light house work. Nothing more than 3/16" to 1/4". I think eventually I have a feeling Im going to want to go TIG so that is why I am not interested in investing in a more powerful welder. Still suggest the 180? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Repeat after me: You get what you pay for... Even pro's have a hard time welding with cheap welders. The price difference between a 135/140 amp and 175/180 amp machine is ~$125-$150, and you get a lot more capability/duty cycle out of it. If you intend to KEEP the machine - get the 175/180 amp. Hobart is generally ~$100 less expensive and nearly the same quality as Miller or Lincoln. I tend to like Miller/Hobart because they have a tendancy to respect us little guys a bit more than Lincoln does. These are all good machines and you can't go wrong with either of the three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 "Still suggest the 180?" a 140 amp 125 Volt welders a damn TOY! get the 220 volt 180 amp, mig. BELIEVE ME HERE,I may not be a welding expert but I weld enought to know the differances, having a decent welder is a whole lot better than struggaling with a TOY that won,t make the job any easier YOU will eventually REGRET buying a 125 volt 140 amp welder if you buy one, If you were closer Id let you try both as between myself and several frinds Ive had access to a great deal of the more comon welders, and KNOW the differances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 You guys are a little over the top. I have a 140 amp welder. It is a 220 volt though. It has done everything I have wanted it to. Can't say I have ever had a situation where I really had to have another 40 amps. I get perfect single pass welds on 3/16 mild steel. It flat tears up stainless with the same gas. There are time where I have wished I could weld aluminum, but I have a oxy-acetelene torch if I really want to weld aluminum sheet. I agree with tannji's advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 "I have a 140 amp welder. It is a 220 volt though" thats a totally differant class of welder, Id agree that the 140 amps is sufficiant on steel with a 220 volt welder, but IVE had nothing but less than satisfactory results with several 110-125 volt welders and don,t know anyone with experiance that uses one (if they have 220 volt service) if they have the option of a 220 volt welder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Alright. I will see if we can pull 220 volt single phase. Recommendations between the three (hobart, lincoln, miller) or are they all a wash? In which case I would get the cheapest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Of the three I liked the Lincoln's arc start the best, especially when welding thinner sheet... didn't feel like burn-through was much of a problem. Admittedly, this was in Lincoln's lab, under pretty ideal conditions. However, I used the Miller in the same lab under the same conditions... The 140c "felt" better than the 140 Auto, and it was about the same between the two 180s. One thing that I REALLY like better on the Lincoln is the drive wheel mechanism. I don't see you ever getting a rats nest, it is obvious to the naked eye that it is a better solution for feeding wire reliably over the life of the machine. (forged Aluminum, no plastic) I didn't like misplacing the thumb-screw, but they have since then made the thumb-screw a captive fastener. Give either company 10 minutes and you will buy into either cooling arrangement, but I think Lincoln put a little more effort into real-world thermal dynamics, and they took it a step further by potting and encapsulating their boards, which protects them from dust and metal fines. Again, (for me) having a $200 spoolgun with adapter is pretty huge. Lincoln has taken some heat in recent years for various issues, their recent new models in MIG and TIG show their desire to take back some market share from ITW's Blue division. Now, if they would only stop changing part numbers every few months.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbhsbZ Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 My .02: Go to Home Depot and buy the Lincoln Weldpak 3200HD if you want a 110V welder. It is the exact same thing as the Lincoln SP135T, just with a different sticker on the side (this was confirmed by Lincoln) You can get them for under $400 If you want a 220V welder, get the Weldpak 175, which is the same as the SP175...I got mine out the door for under $600 I think. I've welded with 2 different miller 180 class machines, and I wasn't impressed. I felt that my first POS mig from harbor freight had better wet-out and puddle control. If you weren't in CA I'd recommend the Hobart Handler 187, but there is very little support for them out in CA and warranty issues may become difficult. For a hobby welder, the SP lincolns are fine. I haven't tried out the 140C or the 180C yet, but I highly doubt that they'd be much better than my SP135 or SP175, which I am VERY happy with....plus, if they break, I can go back to home depot and they'll give me a new one, no questions asked. Don't waste your money on the aluminum liner kit, and don't bother trying to weld aluminum without a feeder gun....its an excercise in futility. Buy a mig for steel and a TIG if you want to do aluminum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeatrpi Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I own this little guy, and I paid $370 a few years ago. For $320 it might be NLA, but call to be sure. It has done everything I needed- subframe rails, brackets, body work and patches, floor boards, exhaust... and done it well too. No hiccups, nothing broken, etc. For the price, I don't see how you can go wrong. Especially if you're on a budget now and you know later you plan to buy a TIG or even a bigger MIG. Edit- a buddy bought a HH140 from these guys. His was "B" stock, even cheaper, but it was obviously used... spatter on the lid, some dents, etc. It works fine and he was happy to save a few bucks and didn't mind the visual blems. http://www.toolking.com/category/tool-king-specials/reconditioned-tools/reconditioned-welding-machines.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I REALLY wish some of you gentelmen were located far more locally so I could allow you to play with some of my welders and see the differances, IM sure some of my friends would bring over thier smaller welders and let you compare them also. If I could have only one it would be a decent torch & tank oxy-accetolene combo as its so versital, my stick welders like the lincoln ranger are good also for most things on a car (steel) but every application has its ideal tool and youll be better off taking a welding class at some colledge or trade school or finding some friends who have experiance and welders to play with BEFORE making a choice than just blindly buying ANY welder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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