timming chain gear set

[fear_me]

Also how many people are running the stock vs something like this?

Link: http://www.zccjdm.com/catalog.php/azcarbum/dt43033/pd858282

 

i found a couple of posts that talk about it being bad/good, one that was started in 05.

Just actualy wondering if it is worth it all and how many people are actual using them

 

~Andrew

[Hartspank]

$625 seems pretty steep! Looks like a pretty sweet setup though.

[JMortensen]

There's probably 5 people on this forum (if that many) running the Kameari setup. It has some definite benefits, but it's pretty pricey so I think only those who are REALLY worried about their cam timing would be able to justify the expense.

[greenmonster80]

I purchased 5 of these for other members when I was on my annual Japan vacation last year. So I would think there are closer to 10-15 members who have these now. I was able to get them shipped to their door stateside for $520 a piece. I love mine. Cool piece with a ton of R/D behind it. Highly reccomend for those in the higher RPM band.

[Tony D]

Makes a neat sound when the engine is running as well. "Auditory Bling"---though the uninitiated will make comments like 'you need to get your power steering pump fixed'! :Roll Eyes: What can you do with some people?

 

I know the cam timing is very precise after installation. The movement of the cam was very tightly linked to the crankshaft position in forward or reverse. When timing the cam, if you happen to bump the crankshaft without knowing it, the indicator can move several degrees...with this setup, you see the cam move IMMEDIATELY!

 

Nice!

[fear_me]

Makes a neat sound when the engine is running as well. "Auditory Bling"---though the uninitiated will make comments like 'you need to get your power steering pump fixed'! :Roll Eyes: What can you do with some people?

 

ha ha, what power steering pump? i know mine still does not have one.

 

Thanks for the info, i am in the process of making a stroker turbo and i was just thinking of added security of not having any problems with the motor.

I read that big thread about it that was made in 05 and after a couple of posts there was some flaming going on and not much info. so i just figured i would ask a couple of years later if people swayed to this product or left it alone.

 

~Andrew

[RIP260Z]

You can add another one who has this Kamaeri setup on this site....me, its gone on my new engine

[HS30-H]

I read that big thread about it that was made in 05 and after a couple of posts there was some flaming going on and not much info.

 

There was plenty of useful information in that thread in my opinion. Maybe you should go back and read it again, whilst bearing in mind that the people 'dissing' the product have - in the majority of cases - never even seen one in the metal.

[fear_me]

ok, i will take another look. once i seen a lot of "dissing" i just started to skim though it. i think that anybody might have done the same thing cause i just hate reading the "my opinion is way better then your cause i said so!"

 

~Andrew

[JMortensen]

You always have the naysayers and the non-believers, and they can bring a thread down to a level where it is hard to read at all.

 

I know I've been into quite a few threads that I thought made serious progress towards the understanding of a given problem DESPITE a very high level of bickering throughout. Instead of reading the attitudes, read the information.

 

I think that thread in question was the one where Dan Baldwin was talking about the chain "twanging like a gee-tahr string" and by the end of the thread he was a convert, although it didn't seem like he changed his mind as much due to the logical thinking through of the issue as much as hearing that someone else he respected used it and thought it was worthwhile...

[TimZ]

Okay, so here's a new question - will my old chain blocking tool still work with this piece, or am I going to have to make a new one?

[HS30-H]

Okay, so here's a new question - will my old chain blocking tool still work with this piece, or am I going to have to make a new one?

 

The chain wedge was necessary because of the way the old spring/oil pressure actuated foot tensioner would 'pop out' of its housing when the chain was relaxed by taking off the cam gear.

 

The Kameari tensioner replaces the foot tensioner with a jockey wheel running on roller bearings, so there is nothing left to 'pop out' any more and you don't need to 'wedge' anything. You simply have to avoid dropping the chain into the front cover - and therefore something as simple as a piece of string will suffice.

 

 

 

 

Surgeon: "Mr Smith, I have some good news for you. Due to new techniques in microsurgery, we now have the technology to re-attach your severed leg. You will be able to walk again!"

 

Mr Smith: "No thanks. I just bought a new pair of crutches."

[TimZ]

The chain wedge was necessary because of the way the old spring/oil pressure actuated foot tensioner would 'pop out' of its housing when the chain was relaxed by taking off the cam gear.

 

The Kameari tensioner replaces the foot tensioner with a jockey wheel running on roller bearings, so there is nothing left to 'pop out' any more and you don't need to 'wedge' anything. You simply have to avoid dropping the chain into the front cover - and therefore something as simple as a piece of string will suffice.

 

The wedge also serves to keep the chain from falling off of the crank sprocket, so I don't have to worry about whether my cam timing is a tooth off. This was more what I was thinking of -I already have the tensioner retainer thingy that keeps the tensioner "foot" from falling out.

 

So it sounds like the answer is that I will have to come up with something else if I don't like pulling the front cover to confirm chain alignment?

[HS30-H]

So it sounds like the answer is that I will have to come up with something else if I don't like pulling the front cover to confirm chain alignment?

 

Just don't 'drop' the chain enough for it to come off the crank sprocket, that's all. The situation with the KEW setup is really no different to that with the stock foot tensioner, except you don't have the spring-loading to deal with ( and therefore don't need the 'wedge' ).

 

If you are going to fit the KEW twin idler tensioner for the first time, you'll have the front cover off anyway. If you subsequently want to remove cam sprocket/cam/head or whatever, the situation is no different to what it would otherwise be. As I said before, just hold the chain up ( by whatever means ) and stop it from dropping down inside the front cover.

 

Is it possible that you might be over-worrying about things that are actually very simple in practice?

[TimZ]

Is it possible that you might be over-worrying about things that are actually very simple in practice?

 

Yep - it's possible. It's also possible that I have been burned in the past by other aftermarket pieces that made formerly simple service procedures into difficult ones.

I'm thinking about purchasing one of these, and I'd like to have a feel for what I'm really signing up for. The performance to pain ratio is important to me.

It sounds like my old chain blocking tool might still work, or I might have to make another one that fits the new profile.

[rags]

From the pictures I think Tim's concerns are valid. there is no longer a "guide on the slack side of the chain. All of the wedge tools I have ever seen (I personally use the handle of a Craftsman screwdriver) wedge the chain against the chain guides. With no more guide, the friction fit will have to be between the idler gear and the taught side chain guide.

 

Joe

[HS30-H]

It's also possible that I have been burned in the past by other aftermarket pieces that made formerly simple service procedures into difficult ones.

 

Well, I can't 'hold your hand' through this. At some point you are just going to have to believe the words of others for what they are, the reputation of the part in service, and the integrity of its designer/manufacturer. If you can't do that, then abort the mission.

 

I'm minded to think that some of the uncertainty that I can sense here is in itself a mirror of the discussions where people - who had never even seen the parts - were damning them with words like "bling", "pimp" or "gee-tahr string". Not very scientific, and bound to plant seeds of doubt in uncertain minds.

 

 

It sounds like my old chain blocking tool might still work' date=' or I might have to make another one that fits the new profile.[/quote']

 

With no more guide, the friction fit will have to be between the idler gear and the taught side chain guide.

 

I'm sorry - but you guys have really got me scartching my head in wonder here. WHY in heaven's name are you both still talking about chain wedges? I've tried to get across to you that you will no longer need a chain wedge tool if you fit the KEW Twin Idler tensioner. All you need to do is to support the chain against the effects of gravity to stop it from falling down inside the front cover, or from falling off the crank sprocket. It really is as simple as that. In fact, if you had your engine on a stand you could simply turn it upside down and let gravity do the job for you.

 

I've just been reassembling my spare S20 twin cam engine, and it has a chain tensioner system that closely resembles the principles of the KEW Twin Idler. I wish I could have you both here in the room while I showed you how simple it was, and the fact that not having a spring-loaded foot tensioner pad to struggle with is a sheer delight! The original ( 1964/5 ) version of Nissan's L-series six cylinder engine also had a jockey-wheel tensioner arrangement, but this was dropped when the engine was somewhat simplified a couple of years later, and a cheaper option was engineered for it. The principle and the engineering are nothing new.

 

 

 

I'm probably reaching the stage where I am over-explaining this now. I just want to finish off by saying that I have fitted and used these things myself, and have supplied an ever-growing number of them to people here in the UK and in Europe. So far, nothing but GOOD reactions and no claims / failures. Actually, the racers amongst those I have supplied would prefer as few of their competitors as possible to know about them.

 

I should be on bloody commission from Kameari for all the sticking-up for their products that I do...............

 

Where's that guy who is saying he's an official Kameari retailer for the USA market? He should be here backing up his wares to USA-based customers, not me.

 

Alan T.

[rags]

My post wasn't meant to make anyone go on the defense. I understand the principle's and I do like the piece.

[Tony D]

If the chain were to drop into the nether of the front cover, you already had the engine at #1 TDC, no? And the cam would therefore be positioned properly anyway, no? It would be a simply matter of fishing it up and attaching it, be damned where the 'bright link' ends up.

 

If the crank and cam are in proper relation to each other when the chain is threaded to the sprockets, it will retain the proper relationship regardless of what the position the 'indicator links' assume.

 

What you notice after installing one of these is cam timing is absolutely rock solid. The 2-5* slop from the slack chain is gone, and rotating the engine forward OR backwards results in INSTANT movement noticable on your indicator.

 

Frankly, with one of these, I would line up the parts, and string the chain on and forget about it. There is no slop to allow enough timing alteration to affect the cam as there is with the 'oil shoe' setup.

 

Like Alan mentions, on the S20 it is not uncommon to see a string holding the chain. Sure, it would be great if the 'bright links' lined up and made cursory visual inspections a snap...but really, if you are concerned about your cam's position, you will NOT rely on the 'bright link'...you will affix your degree wheel, rotate the engine by hand, and indicate with a suitable clock-gage and spindle arrangement to verify opening and closing events to your original setup notes.

 

This way, you can insure, to the fraction of a degree how much your chain has stretched.

 

This is the way I did it on my Toyotas, VW's, and Corvairs---each of which either had roller chain and manual tensioner or direct gear drive. The original Datsun "Oil Shoe" setup was about as sloppy in my eyes as the OEM Chevy Timing Chain setup---2-5 degrees slop...just terrible when compared to the aforementioned engines that used gears for driving the cam.

 

The more precise you can make your cam timing, the better.

 

I mean, if VW Beetles have less timing variation than your 'sports car engine'...what is THAT saying about engineering? LOL

[TimZ]

Thanks for the browbeating, guys - much appreciated. Am I now to be considered a "naysayer" or "nonbeliever" because I asked a simple question? Never mind.