76280z Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 I am building up my motor for max top end power, NA. I was planning on running in the ball park of 14:1. Just wondering what other people have found trying this. Will the engine hold together (for at least a couple of runs)? What kind of starter is needed to crank it? Just curious about other's setups. Any help is appreciated. My setup: MN47 head (i got a couple of extra ones) ported and polished, SS valves, L28 block .060 over(76 n42 block), L28 crank knife-edged, aftermarket forged L24 rods, forged flattop flycut pistons, MSA stage 7 cam, custom intake, Dual vg30 throttle bodies (~55mm), megasquirt, Individual ign coils, big injectors, etc.. ps. I know it's been discussed but should I remove the exhaust liners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 How are you going to get flat tops up to 14:1? Are you going to shave 1/4" off the head? Weld the chamber closed even further? All of the high compression race engines I've seen used domed pistons and matched chambers. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that removing the liners is a good idea. You could make a good case for starting with a head that doesn't have liners and welding up the chambers. You'll need high octane gas for that kind of compression. Don't know exactly how high, but probably in the 105-110 range I'd guess. I remember my ex-boss's 911 was running 12.5:1 and he was using 105. Using the correct octane you should get decent life out of the engine. A 14:1 compression engine's life is measured in hours, but you sound like you're drag racing, so that mght be quite a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 PM drsideways. He runs a high compression NA L6 but I don't think is 14 to 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Challenger Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 Oh the issue of the starter, if needed mabey you could use a Ld28 starter. I dont know how it would fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 A 14:1 compression engine's life is measured in hoursJon, what is it about a very high compression engine that shortens its life so much? Is it that they also run big cams making power at very high revs? Or is it something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 John Coffey could answer the longevity question better than I can. A lot of it has to do with the rpms being run, and the corresponding valve train wear, but a lot of race engines also aren't running air filters and that has an effect. I think it's just overall squeezing more out of the engine than it was originally designed for. As to the starter, the gear reduction ZX starter should do the job if a normal starter wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 That must be some shaved head or welded combustion chamber! 14.5:1 in the 2.8, ran four years at El Mirage and Bonneville. Limiting factor was when the pressed in piston pins walked in the small end of the rods and kissed the block, scoring it. Till that point, and even afterwards it was running fine. The L20A, well it's lower compression simply because we can't 'pop' the top of a 79mm piston big enough to fill enough of an E88 cylinder head to get the compression we wanted...which was 15.5:1. We will probably make a head in the off season that will remedy that situation. We run a standard starter in either case. If you are running some sort of Garden Tractor Battery to start your car, and also run EFI, then use a Gear Reduction Starter as the draw on a smaller battery may cause EMS problems. Race gas is obviously required at these levels. Generally it's rod bearings that take a beating and require replacement with high CR engines especially if your oiling is marginal. On my Drag VW's we would beat out bearings after as little as 8 runs. Though now I realize this may have been detonation causing the problem. Since this clip was shown to me, this is about what the Bonneville Car Sounds like... There are You Tubes of it making passes at El Mirage, but meh...this is someone else's so why not generate some hits for them as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76280z Posted November 14, 2007 Author Share Posted November 14, 2007 Thank you very much, great advice on the starter. umm 105-110 octane??? try C16 (o2 sensors only going to be in it for tuning) Tony D, maybe I'll see you at el mirage or bonneville next year (fingers crossed!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Then instead of crossing your fingers start PRAYING they allow the G-Nose as a production part. There is considerable meddling form the Roadster Contingent, and the original bright outlook for the G-Nose continuing on it's 35 year tradition of being allowed on ALL Z-Cars as a Production piece is in SERIOUS Jepoardy now... Pray to Jeebus the G-Nose is allowed, or you might as well toss it all and build a G-Class Motor (1501 to 2000 cc's) as the S30 will be uncompetitive in F/Pro without the G-Nose that let it set the record in 1975, and for us to break that same record in 2000/2001... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e_racer1999 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 to answe one of your qs, DO NOT TAKE OUT THE LINERS! waaay too crappy a port afterwards. for serious; it would require more welding than it would take to weld up a square port head to have a better quench area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 13.6 to 1 CR on my old race car and you won't get that with flat tops. I ran Sunoco 112 leaded and O2 sensors are fine in a leaded environment if you don't idle the car a lot. I ran a Bosch 4 wire for 25 hours of racing without a problem. We also found that the car made more horsepower running in closed loop using a Motec M48 EMS. A good EMS and lots of cam duration are your keys to power and longevity with the kind of CR you're thinking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 Yes, we would poison our O2's on a regular basis, but it took a while to do it. We had laid in a supply of sensors figuring each racing weekend we would need a new one. Four years later, we still had one left. Five Events a year, plus runs at Bonneville. And I suspect some we changed were fine, but 'due to the new season' we installed a new one. We changed EMS systems, and the new system didn't use the same sensor, so the lone spare sits in the box with the TEC unit...waiting for a street car I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76280z Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 I've been trying to find a g-nose, but the budget has been tight (hence Megasquirt EMS). This is my first time building a speed car. I wasn't really expecting to come close to the record, just want to get some experince and hopefully learn something and have some fun in the process. I've built quite a few different cars now, the last was a 78 2+2 for my girlfriend (I don't know how to post pics), and I thought wow, an old z would be fun to build for top speed, it's fun to drive, parts are cheap and plentiful at the local junkyards and it looks cool. P.s. I did weld the combustion chambers and shave the head. Although the MN47 is smaller to begin with. I just finished a 85 toyota cressida (5mge) fixer upper to sell, guess I'll have to pony up the 900 for the g-nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 17, 2007 Share Posted November 17, 2007 Save your money till you know if it's allowed or not! If you have a coupe, you will compete in F/GT, where the record is around 158, our record is similar in F/PRO. Nice thing is in F/GT engine swaps ARE permitted, so you can do a N/A RB30, and still compete in the "F" Class. You also can run the G35 motor for the "E" Class, the Q45 motor for the "D" Class, and the Titan motor for the "C" class. Run the L20A or RB20DE for the "G/GT" and then sleeve the RB for a 1500cc six cylinder and run in "H/GT"! It's really an intriguing possibility actually. But given the vagaries of the board's decision at this point....I might start with a 1979 280ZX Slicktop Standard Model. Better Aero, same engine possibilities, and same parts availability! I have a 79 280ZX 2+2 Slictop, 83 280ZXT 2+2 (with slicktop roof on it), and another 79 Coupe coming Wednesday....got the idea I was planning on maxing out the S30 Capabilities before moving on? If they disallow the G-Nose it only leaves us competition in the G and H Classes. That means the fully prepped and ready to go "F" motor has no chassis that will be competitive. HELLO 79 SLICKTOP 2+2!!! PM or E-Mail me if you want some specific information on prepping to the LSR rules, etc. I'd be more than glad to help. And I have a 'spare' one-piece G-Nose that might be available if you are serious about the attempt (it's the 'crash spare' currently! LOL) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted November 19, 2007 Share Posted November 19, 2007 With all this talk about 280ZX land speed record... I decided this would be a great spot to post this picture that has been sitting on my computer for a few years. I don't remember any more where the picture came from (how I got it) but I know that it was a 280ZX built for the land speed record a long time ago. Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted November 19, 2007 Administrators Share Posted November 19, 2007 With all this talk about 280ZX land speed record... I decided this would be a great spot to post this picture that has been sitting on my computer for a few years. I don't remember any more where the picture came from (how I got it) but I know that it was a 280ZX built for the land speed record a long time ago. Dragonfly I could be wrong here, but I think that Bonneville car is a Datsun B-210, not a 280-ZX The quarter-light and tail are a perfect match to theses pics of the B-210… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Yeah, that's not a 280ZX, it's a 210. Burklands' car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfly Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Oh well... where ever it was I found that pic they had it labled as a 280ZX and the thing is so modified I wasn't going to argue. Now I have to go and change the title of the pic on my computer... Dragonfly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 20, 2007 Share Posted November 20, 2007 Yeah, that's the "Burklands Streamliner" AA/BFS (Engine over 7 Liters, Blown, Alcohol Streamliner) It's bad when you recognize competition by their car number! LOL If you google "Burklands Streamliner" you will see more information than you want to know about the car! It was made by Gene & Tom Burklands some time ago...he was out of Montana if memory serves. This is a link to the photo of the car in it's current competitive colors/and numbers (313). Burkland's #411 car is a totally different bird these says, with a speed well exceeding the old B210 based car! http://www.chevyasylum.com/bsf2007/wos/20070912/20070912_146r8.jpg This link is somehow not letting us access the photo, yet I could download it from that addy...harumph! It looks nice in blue!!! This is a link to the Burkland's History page...it has proper records and stuff on that car. www.ugofadini.com/burklandstory3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76280z Posted November 21, 2007 Author Share Posted November 21, 2007 Has anybody seen the last Burkland 411? What did it do like 450mph?!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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