Ok, after blowing my SECOND head gasket due to detonation, timing advice PLEASE

[ktm]

I plan on doing a few other things:

 

1) Wolf uses the coolant temp sensor for fuel and ignition control. I plan on logging the CHTS in Wolf as the CHTS is between #5 and #6. If the CHTS is showing a significantly different temperature, I may use the CHTS instead.

 

2) I am running a full sequential ignition and fuel setup. I plan on reducing the timing in #5 and #6 by up to 2 degrees and adding up to 1% more fuel in these cylinders.

 

3) My WG is a 1 bar unit. I just ordered a 6 psi unit from ATP Turbo and have an electronic pressure controller that I am wiring up into Wolf (Wolf has a boost control feature).

 

4) I am going to check my timing at 0, 20 and 30 degrees to verify that my timing is ok.

 

5) I am already using BPS7 plugs and Water Wetter.

 

The good news is that I can change my head gasket in 2.5-3 hours and my exhaust gasket in 1.2 hours. It's just a royal PITA though.

[ktm]

I just finished buttoning everything up and fired the car up. She started right up, pulled 18 inches of vacuum, idle is rock steady at 800 rpm. No bubbles in the coolant, no loss of coolant.

[slownrusty]

The good news is that I can change my head gasket in 2.5-3 hours and my exhaust gasket in 1.2 hours. It's just a royal PITA though.

 

Sounds familiar! Tuning in to see how things come together (stay together!)

[SuperDan]

Bo, has Ron talked to you about this little box yet?

http://www.jandssafeguard.com/

[ktm]

Dan, yes he has. I am quite interested in the J&S system, but right now they do not support full sequential setups for 6/8 cylinders. I would have to rewire my coils for wasted spark in order to use their current offerings. It's my understanding that they are close to releasing a system for full sequential setups for 6/8 cylinders.

[SuperDan]

Dan, yes he has. I am quite interested in the J&S system, but right now they do not support full sequential setups for 6/8 cylinders. I would have to rewire my coils for wasted spark in order to use their current offerings. It's my understanding that they are close to releasing a system for full sequential setups for 6/8 cylinders.

Ron needs to help clear this up then because my understanding was the last time I talked to him that it only required a small modification that J&S could do per Ron's instructions to do full sequential for 6 cyl apps using a Wolf EMS.

Ron?... yo RON!

[RTz]

Ron needs to help clear this up then because my understanding was the last time I talked to him that it only required a small modification that J&S could do per Ron's instructions to do full sequential for 6 cyl apps using a Wolf EMS.

Ron?... yo RON!

 

Not sure where the miscommunication comes from As of today, J&S has 2,3, & 4 channel boxes. John makes an 8 channel Vampire but its use is not best suited to your needs. He is preparing to release an 8 channel universal in the very near future. I'll call him Mon. and verify his schedule.

 

Until we get the 8 channel box, wasted spark is best we can do (unless you run two 3 channel boxes). As a side note, when used in wasted spark, it still has the ability to trim timing on individual cylinders... its adaptive abilities are what makes his stuff 'top shelf'.

 

P.S. The modification that you're referring to was in reference to pulling hi or low. J&S is normally configured to be pulled high, but older Wolf versions could only pull low. Wolf can be configured to do either now, so the modification is optional.

[SuperDan]

Not sure where the miscommunication comes from As of today, J&S has 2,3, & 4 channel boxes. John makes an 8 channel Vampire but its use is not best suited to your needs. He is preparing to release an 8 channel universal in the very near future. I'll call him Mon. and verify his schedule.

 

Until we get the 8 channel box, wasted spark is best we can do (unless you run two 3 channel boxes). As a side note, when used in wasted spark, it still has the ability to trim timing on individual cylinders... its adaptive abilities are what makes his stuff 'top shelf'.

 

P.S. The modification that you're referring to was in reference to pulling hi or low. J&S is normally configured to be pulled high, but older Wolf versions could only pull low. Wolf can be configured to do either now, so the modification is optional.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood.

[stprasinz]

I blew the #5 cylinder on my l28 and I bought a 280zx that snapped the #5 rod on an otherwise stock turbo setup...... hhhmmmmmm... Also my #'s 4+6 were close behind (badly misshaped), 3 shown signs(definitely not round), 2 wasn't quite perfect(slightly slightly not round)and the #1 looked good......

Damn felpro print-o-seal... I'm getting a cheap graphite gasket... I also run 24 psi..... ran 18 all the time.. always on 93... never added anything to up grade... I think I'm going to try leaded and run 27 though.... lol..... replace o2 sensor regularly...lol.... Only after I get a dual turbo and methanol inj.

[Tony D]

My Megasquirt is logging a 15-20 degree difference between the thermostat location and the CHTS at the same time. That's saying it gets to temperature faster than at the thermostat location.

 

If I start the car, it will show 100 at the thermostat, while the CHTS is showing 100, quickly thereafter I will see 115/120 at the CHTS while the thermostat is still at 100.

 

If it let it sit there at idle for a while the differential will rarley exceed 5 degrees F. So from a static standpoint, they are 'identical' temperatures.

 

BUT....

 

When I go out and actually drive the car, I will see a temperature change on the CHTS almost immediately, whereas the Thermostat mounted location will lag for a significant time. If under sustained load, eventually the temperature will stabilize to within the 5-10 degree difference between CHTS and Thermostat, but under quick loads, I have seen the difference be as much at 20 to 25 degrees.

 

My thinking is the CHTS location is a more quickly responding location than the thermostat. Under loads it seems to rise faster and to higher numbers than what the T-Stat location seems to show.

 

I'd be curious to see if you can duplicate my testing results independently.

 

I can see how a localized hot-spot can cause detonation issues, and that putting the sensor there would 'safe' the whole engine based on hottest-spot sensing. Everywhere in the world got a thermostat housing mounted sensor, but for some reason we got a CHTS with the same sensing resistance pairs... I think they had an issue with Federal Emissions, and needed a more precise control of hot-spot sensing like for leaning out / egr mapping. As a result the relocated the sensor. This plays well for guys with turbos as you want the same sort of quick response.

 

Anyway, that was the long form of the 'yes there is a difference in the temperatures, the CHTS responds quicker with higher peaks in the read temps than the thermostat location'.

 

I guess you are happy you didn't use a metal gasket and blow your piston in #5 about now, eh? Look on the bright side, because that is it! Get your tuning down, and THEN seal it hard.

 

Till then, use your head gasket as your safety valve. You don't want to sink any ring lands on those pistons!!!

[naviathan]

Ok I have a question very much in line with this thread. Although I don't boost I do have a high compression (9.5:1) engine that has already been through 2 head gaskets in trying to get it tuned. Now I've been using a timid timing map with my MS, but in playing with it I noticed it ran better (this is on 87 octane) with more advance. Why is that? With lower octane would use a more aggressive timing? I would have though less, but the results were undeniable.

[evildky]

are you running a decent intercooler? I was running 13 psi on my non intercooled stock junkyard motor using slightly tweaked versions moby's maps, at 15 psi I got pinging which is why i ran at 13, after I went i/c I upped to 18 psi and the head started seeping, I went metal HG and APP headstuds

[ktm]

Thanks for the information Tony. A difference of 15 to 20 degrees is substantial (I assumed you are referring to Celcius). I was talking to Ron the other day and he confirmed my thoughts about tuning down #5 and #6 by a couple of degrees and adding up to 1% fuel.

 

I am running a decent (24x12x3 core) intercooler. My IATs are rather low.

 

On a side note, I finally got my knock sensor to correctly trigger an LED, so at least I'll have visual warning.

[Noddle]

Thanks for the information Tony. A difference of 15 to 20 degrees is substantial (I assumed you are referring to Celcius). I was talking to Ron the other day and he confirmed my thoughts about tuning down #5 and #6 by a couple of degrees and adding up to 1% fuel.

 

I am running a decent (24x12x3 core) intercooler. My IATs are rather low.

 

On a side note, I finally got my knock sensor to correctly trigger an LED, so at least I'll have visual warning.

 

Not to side track your post, but can you share on how you wired the led in ?

 

Nigel

[ktm]

The Wolf EMS can accept inputs from other sensors, etc. and use these inputs to control functions. I wired up the knock sensor as an input into Wolf and then used this input to control an output from Wolf that is connected to an LED. I then "filtered" the signal such that the LED will only be illuminated if the knock sensor is above 0.6 volts.

 

You can do something similar using a voltage amplifier that will amplifier a low voltage sensor like a knock sensor (typically 0 - 1 volt) to a 0 - 5 volt setup. 3 to 5 volts is sufficient to power an LED. You may get some noise in the line at 3 volts, but 4 to 5 volts would be a good sign of knocking.

[ktm]

Just an update:

 

I verified my timing tonight. At 20 degrees my engine was actually at 24 degrees. Somehow I must have knocked the distributor off by 4 degrees. I have now corrected it.

[Tony D]

You have to read my third paragraph closely, I thought I was specifying "Degrees F" in each of the temperatures, but apparently did only in paragraph three.

 

It was a BIG 'off day' yesterday, sent e-mails out with references to attachments that I didn't attach, now this... Man, I'm slippin'...bad!

 

>:^(

[z-ya]

The Wolf EMS can accept inputs from other sensors, etc. and use these inputs to control functions. I wired up the knock sensor as an input into Wolf and then used this input to control an output from Wolf that is connected to an LED. I then "filtered" the signal such that the LED will only be illuminated if the knock sensor is above 0.6 volts.

 

You can do something similar using a voltage amplifier that will amplifier a low voltage sensor like a knock sensor (typically 0 - 1 volt) to a 0 - 5 volt setup. 3 to 5 volts is sufficient to power an LED. You may get some noise in the line at 3 volts, but 4 to 5 volts would be a good sign of knocking.

 

The most difficult part of setting up a knock sensor is tuning the audible sound that you engine makes when detonating. Different engines have different knock frequency characteristics, so it comes down to more than just amplitude. This is why off the shelf units that tune the sensor, to the control box is a good solution. They also have tuning capabilities. Car makers spend many hours tuning their knock control systems.