The Saga of my First Stroker -- and some restoration...

[josh817]

Yah I saw that JAW setup but didn't know what to think. I may indeed use it and just put the clock back in as a filler. Look nice and old too. :]

 

Playing with advance shouldn't be bad for the motor. Only reason why its bad for yours is because your running forced induction correct? If you have detonation then yes you'll blow a head gasket. However thats far better than throwing a rod. Thus the reason why you shouldn't use metal head gaskets on high boost motors. It won't give way if you have detonation.

 

In turn, I'm not running high compression either. 10:1 I don't believe is extreme enough for stuff to happen.

 

Exhaust put on tomorrow. Lets hope for the best. @_@

[josh817]

Its been a while.

 

 

Well everything is going well. :] Starts right up, pulls strongly, sings like a champ. Everything electrical has been figured out.

 

Now comes the putting on miles to break in the motor. I noticed today when I bring it up to 6k RPM it sounds like there is a rev limiter or something on it. Once you hit 6-6.5k it starts making loud backfire noises. I didn't hold it long enough to see if it would go any further.

 

I'm thinking maybe its because the timing isn't set up correctly, carbs aren't tuned. I doubt that HEI module has some sort of built in thing to keep it from firing passed a certain point. It almost makes sense since the module controls the firing of the coil, and most rev limiters retard coil firing so the motor miss fires and stops it from over revving. Then again it was only $40 and never said anything about rev limiter so I don't think its that...

 

 

Now comes more fun stuff which I can do without any special super tools. Body work and tires. :0!

 

First up: tires

Second up: strip interior and paint truck bed liner

Third up: paint car...

[Careless]

try painting it with Rust Bullet instead of bed liner. If you get the Black Kote version it's thinner and can be sprayed 2 or 3 times and it won't possibly ever rust again!

 

and most of what you said is incorrect about metal headgaskets on high boost motors. take a look at Tomei and Kameari and HKS, they all make Multi Layer Metal gaskets. Having the gasket as a weak link is indeed a plus compared to rods exploding, but if you have the potential to crack or twist a rod, a head gasket was never your problem.

 

The reason why the supra would blow a headgasket is possibly because the factory gasket is poo.

[josh817]

Shows just how much I know about turbochargers... >_>

[josh817]

Alright, I'm not sure if anyone visits this thread anymore BUT I do have a slight question.

 

Since I ran a turbo motor before with hydraulic lifters, I am unaware how the valve train is suppose to sound with solids+big cam+hot springs. There is a distinct clicking noise which I'm not thinking much of but my dad and his friends say that its kinda noisy. I set the clearances to the cam card specs (which just so happened to be the same as the book 10 and 12 thousandths). I'm going to go back and check everything, maybe even tighten it up to 6 and 8 or 8 and 10 cold. Everything is getting lubed up front. Last thing I need is cam failure... :/

 

Anyways, if anyone has maybe a video of a their stock motor or maybe a mild cam motor, looking into the engine bay so you can avoid exhaust noise that would be cool. I will admit, they do make a bit of a ticking noise but like I said I never maid anything of it. I want to be safe though.

 

 

 

 

Oh and by the way. I'm looking into building a big bore small stroke L motor next either when this thing blows up (lets hope not) or possibly for someone else. I'm practicing on other motors right now and gathering many resources for building because I'm sure people wouldn't feel confident with me. XD Thoughts are just like any other thread topic about small stroke. Get the 2L crank (69mm) and do a 89mm or maybe 90mm bore. If I build another motor I think it would be a race motor. Go biggest cam, prepped rods, flywheel, stroke and bore setup, everything. I'm getting kind of curious now.

 

 

Getting some tires next paycheck. 200 miles on the motor. :] 500 I'll change oil. I do weekly inspections because I'm paranoid something will go wrong with my baby. :0

[Dragonfly]

The last half of this video lets you hear what my stroker sounds like, if yours sounds like this you are fine.

 

 

Dragonfly

[josh817]

Thank you very much! When you rev it up and let it drop back down you hear that tick, thats what I'm talking about. See its hard to tell in videos because it sounds like a diesel and to me diesels sound like metal clunking around, but when you rev it, the disguise goes away.

 

I'll get a video of mine although mine won't go past 6k RPM since we haven't set the advance yet... Nor have we tuned the carbs... I get this annoying blip when you floor it. It'll bog down and then pick right up making for a jerky ride so you have to gradually have to let in the throttle. I think its just the lower RPM band. I haven't looked at the tach when going on my runs but it seems if you pull above a certain RPM and then floor it you're fine. Otherwise it bogs town for a split second and you're off.

 

I'm satisfied to an astonishing point. It goes like no other even with things not being setup just yet. However... I'm telling myself no more tirades on the streets since I haven't seen 20mpg in the past 3 fill ups. 5.5 gallons gets me 80 miles with rough driving and the gauge shows empty but its enough to make it to the station.

 

If I build some RPM hungry motor in the far future, I'm going to approach the valve train with your balancing method Dragonfly. :] Then again if the economy keeps going to hell I may never see the light until I'm 35.

 

 

Also might I note on my list of things to do before I die:

Check for vacuum leaks. At idle my RPM's are varying by about 200-300 so setting it at 750rpm idle isn't any good. If it drops below that the motor dies and I've notice for some odd reason as I pull into the drive way the RPM's ALWAYS drop in a particular section of the driveway. Now we do have a downward slope coming towards our house but on every other downward slope I've encountered this odd RPM drop doesn't happen. In simple terms I have it set at 1300 idle. Start it up on a cool morning (70º) and it'll stay at 800rpm until warmed up. Coming through the drive way it goes from 1300 to 1000-ish. At a stop light with the 1300 idle it will sway between 1000-1400. Its not the tach either because you can hear it go up and down. As long as this is happening I will not see the nice quiet 750 idle, ever.

[josh817]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpCa0hC47QU

^ My motor.

 

As the description says, lets not forget that there aren't any air filters. Just hit me a couple minutes ago...

[Daeron]

adjust the valves. That noise is one of the things I love about the motor. It IS a noisy, but that means the valves are slightly out of adjustment or something along those lines.

 

Feels good to be working on issues with how well a motor runs, rather than making the motor run, doesn't it?

[josh817]

Very.

 

Checking them out tomorrow when I finish up Bondo treatment for the Bimmer. Thats another project just not funded by me. :]

[josh817]

Alright not very many updates but I made another video to show you my fixes and then my recent problems. Any help would be great, especially with the window. x_x

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB7qwfWlzeI

There is a Part 2 which is in the "video response"

 

 

Right now I have to take a huge dump, so I'll come back and edit this post!

[240zwannabe]

your window is off the track...

[josh817]

I took apart that stupid thing 3 times! It doesn't want to go up in the front. Like it randomly happened one day... the day it down poured. the rollers are following their grooves on the window, and the window is in the front and back track slots. I don't know what is going on but its annoying...

[Quin]

The reason why the supra would blow a headgasket is possibly because the factory gasket is poo.

 

Haven't been here in a while (congrats on getting her running, Josh!), just catching up on the thread and saw this. Originally, 7Ms were supposed to come with a head gasket made from a different material (asbestos IIRC). When the change was made, the old torque spec (54 ft/lbs) remained. The new gasket require 72 ft/lbs of torque. Thus, epic BHGs galore. Just your useless tidbit of information of the day... Several guys have made over 500rwhp for a good while on stock Toyota hgs and head bolts. As long as you keep them out of detonation they wont blow. Btw Josh, that is exactly the reason when my new car popped the HG it got a Felpro instead of an HKS stopper. HGs take a weekend of work and two weeks of waiting on parts, tops. Rebuilds take months.

[josh817]

Oh thats just great... Went to Discount tire to do my front wheels and they said they couldn't work on modified wheels because it WILL have vibrations in it. So I asked what causes the vibrations and they said "if its not flush up against the hub, it will wobble" and I was like >_< "Dudes, when I did the grinding on the wheels, I put it on several times to make sure that the wheel was flush against the hub and I spun it to make sure..." Then I asked for the manager to come out, not because I was angry but because I was stubborn and I really want these wheels on the car. He told me a different story saying the proper wheels are made to be snug with the cone on the hub. I was like... dude... the circle on the slot mags is 4.8" or something like that and the base of the cone on the hub is 3.25" (I just kinda made up those numbers, I don't know exact figures). All in all I'm not going to argue with the guys who specialize in wheels. Tomorrow I'll go and double check all my measurements, check for any miniscule wobble, and do any final grinding before they balance and mount the tires. They will put tires on the wheels they just won't mount them which is a matter of putting wheel on and tightening 4 lug nuts... Such a simple step can't be done because if it falls off and they are incompetant of my work, then they are liable. I'll just take the wheels off and put the car on jacks.

[woldson]

OK, I will say he is right.

 

You are a younger fellow with a lot of gumption. I personally admire that.

 

You have modded a rim to fit your application, cool

 

Without signing a waver, I would be hesitant to do business with you. Why?.... 80mph, loss of life and limb, not only of you but others.

 

Not dogging you here, just stating they do not already know how you have persevered though HybridZ scrutiny.

[josh817]

Yah. I took their word for it since they are the wheel and tire experts and they did bring up a good point. I'll double check everything but I'm still using those wheels probably. As explained in my video, if you have one side which isn't ground out enough, that side will not be flush with the hub. That was my main problem when I was trying to get the whole to fit exactly on the cone. I was always off by just a little bit but when you torqued the wheel to the hub and spun it, it wobbled a TON. Then I looked at the slots and again, as shown in the video. you see that giant circle, and then about a half inch in, it goes to normal size. Point being that the larger circle is OVER sized. Its 4.--something inches and the cone at its base is only 3.--something inches.

 

 

Some cool new news is that I have a spare P90A head with an extra set of hydraulic lifters. This one guy on here wants that head so he can play with it but because he will only be playing with it, he doesn't really want to dish out any money. He does however have the 4 wheel 4 piston disk brake setup with new rotors and pads. Everything for me to sit down one day and bolt everything up. The only things I'll need would be that 15/16 master brake cylinder and a larger displacement splitter or something like that? I have to do some more reading but that'll be VERY cool!

 

As far as body work goes, I'm doing 2 colors. I want power colors, that being white, black, or red. White and black is cool but red is my favorite color, it matches the motor, the brakes, and looks fun. The only thing I don't like about white is that it will show every dirt mark on the car... and my car is pretty dirty... know what I mean? >_> The other super cool part is that since I've been doing body work on the BMW I have learned how to use Bondo, fiberglass, properly sand, etc. All I have to do is duplicate the process with the Z. My only problem right now is stripping the paint. On the BMW we used this Aircraft Stripper which is MEAN stuff. Paint it on and 10 minutes later the paint is blistered up and peels off. If its new paint then its a bitch to use as it only takes off a top coat leaving several more under it so you might as well use a sander. But my main point is that the Aircraft Stripper may be so strong I fear it will eat through the fiberglass headlight buckets. I may make a batch of glass and see what happens when I use it. Another problem is that I am racing against time with the BMW. The rust is coming in quickly so every weekend when I come back to do more work I have to spruce up the area and clean it off before I start. To make sure rust didn't come in so fast we sprayed the car with cheap primer/krylon just to cover the bare metal but rust is forming under the metal. Rust kills, and I couldn't help but notice that inside my door where the window is, down at the very bottom where it probably collects some water, its rusting. I'm betting I'm going to put in all this effort to make the car look pretty and then I'll have some nasty rust bubble come up a month later down in there. Its in a spot that I can't reach so I guess when people spray their cars professionally they take apart the door? Who knows. This won't be professional, and I think I'm going to do a little more fancy than the Rustoleum paint... I'll probably get some Duplicolor or some cheap automotive paint. The goal is to stay cheap. If it reaches $1000 for a paint job, leave me out because I'm thinking more like... $300. The cool part is that since Dad does full restorations at his shop and he uses this one lady for all the body work she came over and offered the usage of all her equipment. She said just get the paint and I could use her spray guns, and most importantly her spray booth. That way I won't have bugs and **** in the paint because knowing my luck a big beetle would land on my wet work!

 

This is what I scrounged up in Microsoft Paint since Photoshop is WAY over my head.

 

Original picture:

 

What I'm visualizing (ignore that stray line, the computer freaked out):

 

The BMW using that Aircraft Stripper. You paint it on with a brush and don't let it touch you skin because it burns and itches. Quite annoying. Don't bother using Latex gloves either because it'll eat through those too... And if ANY of you guys have any tips on how to keep the friggin sand paper on the big circular sander that would be wonderful. The paper has sticky stuff on the back of it which you stick on the face of the sander. It works well for about 30 seconds and then it starts slipping off and finally it shoots off. Try to stick it back on but it flies off every 5 seconds until you get pissed throw it out.

 

 

 

You know what would be cool is if you just clearcoat that sanded down bare metal. Almost like chrome! Haha... it would still be cool. >_>

 

And lastly one important question. For timing, what mark do you look at on the dampener. There are several grooves on it and I'm curious if I'm either reading it wrong or my timing is just weird. Now someone here did say that if the rotor is sitting between 2 plugs it may cause a ton of advance and perhaps even skip between the 2. However, the base plate for the distributor that I'm using came off of my old points dizzy and maybe that just isn't calibrated for this electric dizzy. Might I add a note here: When I'm sitting at a light very rarely but it does happen you hear a little blip in the exhaust and feel a slight jerk in the car. Perhaps this is the misfire issue I just mentioned. It has never happened when moving though so who knows. It barely happens so I don't really worry about it.

 

This is what my dizzy is showing. The timing light is saying that at this mark I am doing 35º total (at 3k RPM) and 20º at idle (1300 RPM). This doesn't seem right so either I'm reading the wrong groove on the dampener, this timing is as that one guy described, or its just messed up and I'll deal with it. I'd like to say set it to how you want it since I still have plenty of room to turn the dizzy both ways.

 

Which one?

 

Think I needed new rear tires? Had a little bit too much fun! Little bit of a camber issue too it looks like.

 

 

That groove I mentioned in the PROPER slot mags.

 

I never get that bored from just looking at it. Its kinda exciting really...

 

And finally the goods I bought today before I leave next weekend for more flag work. I wish I was out there racing instead of being the boo waving the flag but hey its money and its fun to be around the cars. One thing to note on the oil. I bought Kendall GT-1 SL grade oil. Guys if you are running solid lifters, use SL and not SM. Don't ask me why I got 20W-50, Dad had me get it. I trust him since apparently he's some oil Guru for vintage cars and he did have a presentation at the car club a couple months ago but I was left babysitting Willie and keeping him from interrupting Dad and his presentation. I'm pretty sure we could discuss what type of oil and their properties all day long but I'm just going to say use SL without having a reason for why... Might I add "Aww its my babies first oil change, that's cute."

 

 

 

 

And then lastly, this is why I like doing flag work. :] That event the only Z that showed up was this dented dog which I've never seen run that well. The guy always leaves early so I'm not sure what to think. There are like 2 others but I've only seen one of them and he didn't show up either. The third one I have no idea what he's like. This coming weekend though is the last race of CVAR so I hope everyone makes it.

 

 

 

Sorry for the long post. :/ Oh and Woldson, the only reason why I have so much gumption is because of this project and having to deal with people. Before this I was the dude where if you didn't get what you ordered you just kinda let it slide and if someone messed up or pushes you around you let it slide. Then you go home and say "Wow, I should have stabbed him..." XD Now I kind of voice my opinion and hope for the best.

 

Here is the link to all of my project pictures. They're in a time line order:

http://s14.photobucket.com/albums/a333/josh817/Stroker%20Project/

[woldson]

 

 

 

I like that Idea on your paint scheme!

 

Not being a push over is a good thing. Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility. Use your new found power wisely.

 

Best example, if you stand on "that hill" and later found out your wrong, then with great humility, even if the that guy was a jerk, humbly apologize. << That is one of the hardest things to do, some call it sallowing your pride.

[josh817]

Oh yes I know that already. My grandma gives me lectures over the phone about standing up for what you believe in and if you're wrong, just shut up. I always tell her about how working at Tom Thumb and the boss of mine who disrespects every guy in the store, but loves the girls, for reasons we all probably know why. I'm always saying look I don't care about her sexual preference but you don't treat teenage guys like crap and the grown men who are 20+ years older then her barely get respect. Grandma gets all riled up on the phone "Youuuuu tell them that you don't need to take their ****, Joshua! Tell them they barely give you any hours so they can just stick it right up their ass!" XD It gets intense, especially close to dinner time.

 

 

 

 

Ok so ANYWAY! We have an issue boys! The whole thing I said about the oil and no idea why I chose it, yah bad idea! First off let me go over the 2 things I did today. I hooked up the fan controller, it works well. Then I changed oil. NOW when I drove home the motor WILL NOT rev. passed 4500RPM! As soon as it hits 4500RPM it sounds like a rev limiter kicked in and won't go any higher! Now if you look back at the oil, it says 20W-50, and apparently I got some other bottles thinking they were all the same but basically it was a mix of 20W-50 and straight 50. This oil is THICK. In fact, my oil pressure reads higher than before. We all know the dizzy is connected to the oil pump by a shaft. My thought is that I'm building up too much pressure with this thick oil and its putting resistance on that shaft, causing misfires. I know, there is a bypass valve. What I don't know is if it works, or if the pressure to open it is too high for my motor to reach. I mean if its not the oil then its the fan controller which is just a relay the flips at a given time, point being that it isn't drawing any more current than it was before when the fan was always running. We only did 2 things to the car so its one of them and fan doesn't make sense. Now... One new thought I just had, perhaps because of the FAN keeping me nice and cool (middle of the gauge and I typically sit just above the middle) perhaps I'm not warmed up enough. Mix this with thick oil and now you have a paste trying to be pumped x amount and only y amount can be achieved. I'm just winging ideas out.

 

 

This supremely sucks because I have 15 miles on that oil and once its drained, well, its done for. And if new oil doesn't do it... then... well that just sucks nuts. Going back tomorrow to see whats up. I'm in a pissy mood now.

[Xnke]

Yep, you need some good 'ol 30wt or 10-W30. I have a case of Valvolene SH grade 30wt here for break-in and first two oil changes. After that, i'll swap to valvolene VR-1 10-W30. Got the ZDDP the motor needs, and it's the right weight.