AC Delco/GM Alternator Swap Part 2 - CS144 Installation

[Hardwyre]

The swap was successful except my charge light on my volt meter doesn't seem to light up anymore. I used a 100ohm resistor off the alternator. Headlights don't dim anymore when I have the radio, radiator fan, and heating going anymore.

[Hardwyre]

Okay boys and girls; apparently there is a unique deal with '76 280z and this swap.

 

Your battery will die if you don't rewire/disable the "brake warning lamp check relay". I had a dead battery this morning and have been fighting with it since I got home from work. Zed apparently ran into this problem before me and was awesome enough to point me to this thread:

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?p=313999#post313999

 

You'll know you're possibly going to have problems with this swap and need to hunt relays if you hear the relays click/throw when you reconnect the battery, even if the car is "off". After I cut the yellow wire, it was dead silent when the negative terminal was reconnected. Thank you Zed!

 

[jeffp]

I have since decided to go with yet another upgrade for the alternator. This unit is made by Penntex out od Texas. The alternator is mede her in the US. I think this just may be what I was looking for in the first place.

 

The differences in the alternators are for one date of manufacture. The other is the r4ectifier set for each unit, and as you mentioned the rotor. Also the 244 unit has two cooling fans, one in the front and back.

Realistically, you are correct 140Amps should be sufficient for welding LOL, or to power your car easily.

The problem with the Alternators are the CURRENT OUTPUT @ idle, and that is where you run into problems. Ecah alternator is rated at X amount of rotor speed for that unit. You will note the differences in the rotor speed of each unit for the specified output current. The smaller units "generally speaking" will require a faster rotor speed to get the unit into the higher current ranges that we would like to see at idle. Easier said then done. The other thing you will notice is that the larger the alternator current output, "Generally speaking" the more current it is able to provide ast a lower rotor speed.

So that was my criteria for the 244 unit "and it is fully upgraded with the stator, brushes, Diode rectifier, and finally the external regulator I installed. So I started with a 200.00 part that was stated to provide me with 95 amps at idle, it did not do that. So I called and it was mentioned there was a larger stator, and better diode block for the unit. I bought those, again the alternator did not fit my needs. I changed to a 2 " pulley to spin the alternator faster. Still not quite where I wanted it. I was seeing the line voltage drop off after the alternator got hot. So then it was the internal regulator that was the problem. I bought that for 145.00 (external unit) and installed that. Still not what I wanted and it did not improve the line voltage drop when the unit was hot.

So in a nut shell, the unit would not do what I wanted it to do after spending 500-600 total on the install and upgrades, for this one unit it still was not quite good enough. So what to do now, lower my line voltage to 13.8 that seemed to work, but again I am where I started. Total waste of money in my opinion.

True, I have somewhat of a unique situation with my car, so like I mentioned somewhere else, a 200 amp unit is not required, however if you are looking at idle current, the the only things you can do are spin the rotor faster, and that helps. The second thing you can do is get more robust, higher current devices in the unit that will not get so hot, and finally increase the windings of the stator.

I did all of those "upgrades" and still could not maintain 14.2 volts @ idle when the car was fully warmed up. So for me this was a total waste of money, and my time.

 

Take a look at the new unit and see what you think. I built the bracket and I think that part is about strong enough to lift the whole car LOL.

 

 

Do you have any ideas that would make the page links better? I do have the mouse-over funstion on the page links. So if you leave the mouse on the small picture the title of the page will show, and you get the page title on the explorer lower tool bar. Anyway.

 

I really am interested in the performance of this new unit. My goal is to maintain 14.2 volts under any condition, well within reason, so if I can run the car, turn the lights on, and at that time an electric fan, and electric water pump. I have since went away from the electric water pump for some heat testing of the cooling modifications I have made.

This alternator was NOT cheap, but if it does all that it says then worth every penny.

This has been an ongoing modificaton for me, very costly to test all of the different parts and all the upgrades, will it never end LOL.

[logan1]

How did you guys get the nut off that central shaft for the CS144 to swap the pulley for the V-groove pulley?

[Nigel]

How did you guys get the nut off that central shaft for the CS144 to swap the pulley for the V-groove pulley?

 

Impact gun, or if you don't care about the old pulley, then just clamp it in a vice.

 

Nigel

'73 240ZT

[Nigel]

Update:

 

I've had my CS-144 alternator in my Z for just over a year and less than 10K miles now. It was working fine up until a few weeks ago. I started to hear an occasional rattling sound coming from somewhere near the front of the car when the engine was idling. At first they were brief rattles, that would just last for an instant and sounded something like a loose exhaust heat shield. But it quickly became more persistent, to the point that it would often be a constant, loud, whirring, rattling noise any time the engine was idling. However, to complicate matters, sometimes there would be no noise at all, like everything was fine. Or, it would start out noisy, and then just go away.

 

My initial fear was that it was the timing chain. If I had to imagine what a loose timing chain would sound like, this would be it, and the sound was coming from the very front of the engine. But with the use of a stethoscope, it was determined that the sound was actually coming from the alternator. After removing the belt, and turning the alternator by hand it was easy to hear and feel that the alternator fan was rubbing on the housing. But why?

 

The rotor in the later model of these alternators is bolted to the inner race of a ball bearing that has the outer race pressed into the front housing of the alternator and provides the main support for the rotor. At the rear is a small needle bearing that the other end of the rotor sits in. Other than the press fit of the ball bearing in the housing, there is nothing securing the rotor axially in the alternator. As I was told by a reputable alternator repair shop, sometimes the ball bearing will work itself loose in the housing, and the rotor will gradually move back in the alternator until parts start rubbing. If this happens, the housing is junk, and there's no point in reusing it. It will just keep happening. If you didn't do anything about it, I'm sure the alternator would eventually seize right up. Earlier versions had a plate that secured the bearing in the housing to prevent this. So much for progress...

 

Here's an exploded view of the later version of the CS-144 alternator...

 

 

Hopefully posting this will reduce the troubleshooting time for someone in the future.

 

Nigel

Edited August 30, 2010 by Nigel

[Nigel]

Update #2

 

I've just had a second alternator fail due to the ball bearing coming loose in the front housing! There is a snap in retainer available (part number 46-1509 in the exploded view I provided in my previous post), but neither the OEM or rebuilt CS144 alternators I've had have one. I'm going to try to get one, and hopefully salvage the alternator I have now. It's only a $2 part. I'd advise anyone doing this swap to install one.

 

Nigel

[Nigel]

Here's a picture of the inside of the front housing after the bearing had worked itself part way out:

 

 

I stopped by a local alternator repair shop and they gave me the snap-on bearing clip for free! (Thank you R&D Auto Electric in Brampton, Ontario!)

 

 

Nigel

[tamo3]

It was so hard to remove pulley.

I followed this step to try to remove pulley.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=131960

 

I don't know how much I need to bang hammer with 27mm socket.

 

I try to use impact gun to try to remove the tapered collar.

No luck to remove the collar.

 

I decided to cut it off.

 

Once the collar comes out, pulley fell off!

 

Once the pulley is out you may now get very excited and start telling your wife all about how awesome you are. When it becomes clear that she simply does not appreciate just how awesome you are, proceed to next step .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Beer!

Edited October 11, 2014 by tamo3

[HuD 91gt]

Alternator gurus please help.

 

Purchased this 1994 Cadillac Seville Alternator to do a conversion on my 240z.

 

The alternator looks almost identical to the one in this thread, but it has the connector on the side, with 3 individual connectors. This bunch of wires does not let the alternator twist in it's mount to adjust.

 

Does anyone know what these are? I tried removing the connector, but can't seem to open the alternator. Also the connector which which holds the sense wire has 4 wrongs, from this thread it seems the others have 2?

[HuD 91gt]

Pictures




EDIT:   Further investigation shows that I purchased an alternator for a Cadi with a heated windshield.   The 3 wires coming off the alternator are an AC output for the windshield.  This version of alternator also has one extra prong.

Let's hope I can dissemble the casing, and reclock the ALT so the connection is on the other side and gives me a little more room.

Edited October 21, 2016 by HuD 91gt

[HuD 91gt]

Well, after some research I disassembled the alternator, removed the AC wires, clocked the alternator over 90 degrees and put it all together.

 

On my '71 240 I purchased the msa converted for an internally regulated alternator. I attached the 12v constant yellow to S "sense" output. I then attached the switched 12v wire to F "field" prong.

 

I'm not getting any charge at all. The later 280z had a discharge light. Is this used as the exciter? I don't believe a 240z has this. Do I require a resistor?

[hansonsaid]

i'm in process on this swap right now, and have a question:

 

my nissan/hitachi pulley is badly worn, and i'd like to use a new v-belt pulley on the cs144.  there are plenty of 2" diameter options, but should i be using a 3/8" or 5/8" WIDTH pulley?  it's hard to measure based on my stock nissan pulley, and the brand new, nissan oem belt is almost exactly 1/2" wide.

 

any experience/opinions?