Motorcycle Advice - 250R vs 650R

[Pete84]

The question I have is......what is your street bike experience level, if any? If your answer is none, start taking the bus or buy yourself a huge insurance policy! Just one man's opinion with 30 years of riding and racing bikes.

 

Tom

I took the MSF course and have been riding a friends bike around on the local residential streets for about a month, evenings, 4-5 evenings a week.

 

I wish there was a bus sometimes, I'm 35 miles from anything. Gas is brutal. Tiny little development in the middle of nowhere, on a 2 lane highway.

 

How much medical should I be looking at? A friend suggested 50K at the least.

[ShaggyZ]

I took the MSF course and have been riding a friends bike around on the local residential streets for about a month, evenings, 4-5 evenings a week.

 

I wish there was a bus sometimes, I'm 35 miles from anything. Gas is brutal. Tiny little development in the middle of nowhere, on a 2 lane highway.

 

How much medical should I be looking at? A friend suggested 50K at the least.

 

I'm very glad you took the MSF. I'm not being facetious when I say "remember your lessons!" Practice them now and then, particularly emergency braking.

 

Yes, have AT LEAST 50k, and underinsured/uninsured motorist protection, too. I'm learning the hard way about the underinsured motorist protection

[Dragonfly]

I ride a VFR 800 (Honda) which is considered by most as a "crossover" bike meaning that it looks like a sport bike (and has some of the feel of a sport bike) but sits more upright like a cruiser. In general I would not consider it a bike for a new rider but with your size and weight this bike would be very manageable as long as you keep your "fist" out of it. I picked mine up used with 380 miles on the clock for $8k and the dealer price is $11,500.

 

A couple of suggestions for you is to ignore the condition of some of the bikes you see on CL and go look at them in person and (only if you feel safe) take the bike for a short ride, this will let you know real quick if you really like the feel of a given bike, but remember not to bite off more than you can chew because if you drop it or wreck it you bought it in my opinion. when you do get a bike be careful with your insurance as some carriers will only provide medical for any injured by you but will not cover your medical (ask them point blank to know for sure). Also as some others mentioned at the same time you get the bike get some gear, buy your helmet new then go to some thrift stores etc and look for jackets, gloves, pants, boots etc. One more comment/suggestion if you have to deal with stop and go traffic during your commute you need a lot more than the practice you currently have on riding, start practicing on the freeway during light traffic conditions during daylight hours and while learning the feel of the bike practice predicting what each and every car around you is going to do, when you can predict at about 90% accuracy then you can start practicing during heavier commute times.

 

As a fellow rider I do not want to see you laid up or dead any more than you do. BTW here is a pick of my VFR.

 

 

Dragonfly

[Pete84]

OH YES, we did emergency braking for some time during the MSF course, they really wanted us to use both front and rear brakes to their fullest safe extent. Along with some very fun swerve / brake drills.

 

I "want" to get a sweet Honda like a 919 or a VFR800 Interceptor, but considering this is my first bike, I am going for something lighter and more economical. Hence the SV650 / 250R / 650R / FZ6 dilemma that I am in, which seems to have been resolved down to the SV line.

 

Any advice on where to look for bar risers for SV sports? Are such items made? Can the peg positions be altered?

 

I have been advised that McGraw insurance is a good carrier, suggestions? How do they compare to say, Progressive or Geico?

[ShaggyZ]

[snip]Also as some others mentioned at the same time you get the bike get some gear, buy your helmet new then go to some thrift stores etc and look for jackets, gloves, pants, boots etc.[/snip]

 

You gave generally good advice except for this. Unless you're finding motorcycle specific gear at a thrift store, I highly recommend using eBay. I got a nice, but rashed A* (Alpinestars) TZ-1 jacket that fit me perfect for $180 with a pair of $200 gloves that didn't fit so I resold them for $80 - the jacket is a ~$400 piece.

 

 

Any advice on where to look for bar risers for SV sports? Are such items made? Can the peg positions be altered?

Get yourself acquainted with http://www.SVRider.com. There are risers for the SV650S. One company is http://www.Convertibars.com.

The best way to get more upright seating position rearsets (that's the peg/shifter/rear brake assembly) is to grab a set from a naked SV650 - I think they're only .5" down and .5" forward from a S-model, but enough to make a difference. Really, though, I think you'll get used to the S-rearsets and probably the clip-ons, too.

 

Your game plan - buy an S-model, ride it for awhile and if you really want to change that stuff out, you can easily sell the clipons and rearsets to someone wanting S-parts (or simply make an exchange on the rearsets); you can sell the clipons easily and get the convertibars.

[Tombarace14]

You mention a 919? Have you looked for a 599 same looks egros less bite.

[Dragonfly]

You gave generally good advice except for this. Unless you're finding motorcycle specific gear at a thrift store, I highly recommend using eBay. I got a nice, but rashed A* (Alpinestars) TZ-1 jacket that fit me perfect for $180 with a pair of $200 gloves that didn't fit so I resold them for $80 - the jacket is a ~$400 piece.

 

It takes some searching but I have a Gericke jacket (brand new) that cost $35, an Alpinestar jacket (brand new) that cost $40, a Joe Rocket jacket (slightly worn) that cost $15, a pair of Dainese leather pants with replacable pucks (brand new) that cost $25 and a pair of Harley Davidson embroyedered leather riding boots (slightly used) that cost $45. These were all items that fit me but I will say that I certianly did not find them all at once, this has been over a couple of years but I have seen several other pieces of motorcycle safety gear in very good condition at very good prices but in the wrong sizes for me on a semi regular basis.

 

The object is to start looking before you need the items so when you need them you have them.

 

Dragonfly

[tdab]

The dealer in town is completely out for the foreseeable future of both the Kawasaki Ninja 250R and 650R, so this is pretty much a used bike issue.

 

I am 6'1" and 265 lbs., would the 250R be just to little for me? The used bike prices on both are not that far down from MSRP, ~$3000 for a several year old, good condition 250R, $5000-6500 for a 650R. I do have $1500 in cash, and my credit is right on 730 from all four agencies. I would rather not get the 250R, and in a few months discover that it has no further interest to me, nor would I like to spend more than I need to, and get a 650R.

 

Opinions? A good forum to ask this in?

 

I did go to all the dealers in town, Suzuki, Honda, Kawasaki, Yamaha, and test sat on the relevant bikes. The SV650S has to great a forward lean, and I didn't really get into the SV650. The foot pegs were a bit odd if I remember right. The GS500 seemed ok, but if not a 650R then why not go all the way down to even better mpg and handling in the 250R? I really liked the FZ6, then looked into insurance, mileage, etc., and found that it was a super sports bike in disguise. And Honda doesn't seem to make anything to my interest. The 919 feels like a dream, but once more, it is a super sports bike in drag.

 

 

Gas is killing me, and yes, I know it will take some time to make enough savings in gas to compensate for the bike, but I've had enough paying $4.69 a gallon for my Honda.

 

No love for the 500R? Great starter bike IMO. First street bike I ever drove. If I was in it for the gas savings only, I would try to pick up a late model 500R for under 3k. Now if you have to have to coolest, best riding, fastest, whatever, maybe it wouldn't do.

 

Tom

[PETEW]

If you are looking for used gear, you can go to newenough.com . They sell used leathers and left over stuff. You could also try E-bay or any of the sportbike forums (like sportbikes.net). I belong to TLZone and guys are selling used gear all the time.

 

As many of the others have said, a starter bike can be anything. As long as you can handle it, be smart and take your time. I has a Yamaha Special when I was in high school and then had nothing for 6 years. When I got back into biking I bought a 1990 CBR1000. It was big, heavy and all top end, but it was fine for me. I graduated to a '98 VFR800. I think this was probably as close as you can get to a perfect bike. It is very comfortable, great sound, and can handle with most of the sportbikes. I then had to have an R1 (see my sig). That kind of bike is a beast and not for a rookie. That bike was too much fun. I also had a CBR600F3 track bike. Great bike that crashed well and had enough power to have fun, but not too much to get you in trouble (well except for that high side I did in front of the wife at Summit Point). I now have a '97 TL1000S. It is a lot of fun, has great looks and that great big twin sound. I still get thumbs up for it even though it is an eleven year old bike.

 

Do what ever is going to work for you. I think the SV will keep you happy for some time, but I can not say for sure. I never rode one. I think the 919 wouldn't be too bad for a starter bike if you are smart and don't pressured into stupid too easy.The VFR would be a nice bike, too. It's all up to the rider.

[Pete84]

'98 YZF600R, first bike, pic from 2000

 

'00 YZF600R, 2nd bike, pic from 2005.

 

 

A friend from work's brother is selling his '95 or '96 YZF600R for $2500, which is a good bit less than the cost of SVs which I was looking at.

 

Auxilary, what sort of mpg do you get on your YZF? I looked on www.yzf600r.com, and it seems to range from low and mid 40s to mid 50s. I'm just about all highway, 65 average.

 

How are the ergonomics? It seems to be a more upright bike than most of the other 600s, a very good thing with the time I am looking at spending on the bike.

 

Anything to check on the bike? Should I go to the dealer to get them to look it over and make sure it is in solid condition, or find a reputable independent shop to do that? Definitely want to make sure that the bike is good, a decade and a half machine can have a lot wrong with it.

 

Thanks, just trying to get some good research done before going further.

[auxilary]

It's pretty upright, a cross between a tourer and a sport bike. Lately, sportbikes have you completely crouched down, and most of your weight rests either on your arms, or your legs are doing most of the support.

 

In 95 model yzf600r is different than the 96-2007

 

1995

96-2007

 

As long as the pricing is negotiable, 2000-2200 is a fair price if it has low mileage. Keep in mind, they were 7k brand new msrp, and i bought my 2000 in 2005 (5 years old) for 2,800 with about 16k miles.

 

Things to check out are the drive chain (should be replaced every 10k miles, along with sprockets). Check for excessive wear, and how worn the sprocket teeth are. Those yzf600rs are known for 2nd gear synchros occasionally going out, so find out if any of those issues were experienced. Also, if it has a difficult time going from 2nd to 1st, change weight of the oil, it helps. I think I was running 15w50 in mine and it made it run smoother.

 

Ergonomics are decent, but the stock seat is pretty crappy and soft. After 30 minutes of continuous riding, it'll sag and your butt won't be too happy.

 

Also, ask to see the bike cold, so you can fire it up and warm it up. You'll probably need to keep the choke on for a little bit. If it has an exhaust, and has a difficult time firing up or running smooth, jets haven't been adjusted to compensate for the exhaust. Look at engine side covers to check if it's been dropped - those are the first parts to touch the ground - vertical scratches mean it was dropped from stand still, horizontal means they were dropped at speed.

 

Aside from that, very solid and dependable bike. I would get 50-55mpg average on highway out of mine without doing anything stupid. 40 or so if I was having fun or mixed riding

[Floorless240z]

didn't read the whole thread. take the msf course before you do anything

 

don't get anything bigger than a 600 or 650. I would recommend buying used; the less you have invested in your first bike, the better. There's an old saying; "it's not if you go down, it's when." Do you want to dump a 3k bike or an 8k bike?

 

don't go with ss bikes. gs500, katana, honda cbr600 f2 or f3, yamaha fzr600, yamaha yzf 600, mid 90's kawasaki ninja 600s, etc.

[dr_hunt]

I am not following the logic here. Your going to spend $6000 for a bike to save 30mpg worth of gas. Thats assuming what your drivng gets 20mpg.

 

At $5/gallon gas, that's 1200 gallons or about 24,000 miles of driving. If you get 50 mpg on the bike for the 24,000 miles your going to use 480 gallons or another $2400 worth of gas to go the same distance. All in all you could spend $8400 for gas and get to drive 33,600 miles if you keep what you have. Also the bike is not a particularly good wintertime or foul weather transportation. You still have to have the car, still pay insurance, now add bike insurance, accesories, helmet, etc, etc. If you finance it, its even worse.

 

Doesn't make alot of fiscal sense to me, but it is your money. It's like having a wife and mistress at the same time. Your going to enjoy it, but it'll never work out in the end.

[auxilary]

but you can also have lots of fun on a bike. in california, lane sharing is legal, and very helpful in heavy congested traffic. It's more beneficial for me to lane share and spend 25 min going to work, vs. 45min in a car

[Pete84]

Dr. Hunt

That is why I'm looking towards the cheaper used bike market now. Since the gas crunch, the prices have inflated and a lot of old shed bikes are being brought back to life, with very questionable history. Making that economical yet reliable motorcycle a tricky find.

Plus, I live in the far north of California, with very long summers. Oddly, I live in mountains 15 minutes from the valley floor, 3000' up higher, and get snow in the winter. Which will help keep me smart and not try and ride during the winter months.

 

Auxilary

According to Wiki, the '97 restyling carried over all the mechanical bits. Any idea how much they changed? Ergonomics? I was told that the bike has been put down, on the owners driveway Besides the visible damage to the tins, is there anything to check for that might be internally damaged without visible damage?

 

Thanks!

[auxilary]

they're pretty solid. i'll admit to dropping my bike at a standstill 2-3 times (first one) and it fired right up (after the carbs filled again). never sat on a 96 or earlier 600r, so i don't know how much they've changed.

[savageskaterkid]

I've also been looking at getting a bike, nothing new. Gas mileage doesn't really have anything to do with it, I just like riding. I've been learning to ride on a 2002? kawasaki zzr600, and I LOVE the bike. I think the sound is great, I can sit upright and comfortably. I don't like to follow the bandwagon with Gixxers and all, and the ZZR is not really seen around too much as opposed to a GSXR, so I like it. Would you guys consider it a good first bike? My buddy is thinking of upgrading to a newer bike, and I'm trying to buy off of him. It has been dropped which is fine by me, as I'll probably drop it at some point.

[Pete84]

Heheh, yah, getting 2nd hand information sure did get me good!!! It is a FZR600 NOT a YZF600R. From what I've read, it was the top super sport when it came out. Hence, the ergos are not what I'm looking for. Plus, it has some odd sized tires that are a trick to find nowdays and the mileage isn't so hot.

 

Well, time to add the YZF600R to my search, in addition to the SV650.

 

EDIT

 

Well, it actually is a YZF600R, but is spoken for by a brother of the seller. Saw it today, and it was actually in better condition than I expected. And, I thought that it was a really good setup, with the height of the bars, seat, and pegs. Bummer.

[wingnutthehutt]

First, Savagexxx, you don't see ZZR's becuase they are ZX6-r's from six years ago. I have the same bike sitting in my garage.

 

Second, why is everyone telling this guy to get a BIG bike?

 

Pete84: I would recommend an EX500 hands down. Not enough power to get you in trouble, light, flickable, good fuel economy, low insurance, and enough juice to get out of trouble and have fun. In six months when you decide you're ready for more power, gas will still be expensive and you won't lose ANY money if you play your cards right. I'm not blowing smoke, I've had several friends listen to me and do EXACTLY that.

 

The 650R is also an excellent bike. Don't fall for the typically American viewpoint that you have to have the most powerful bike out there. Would you really want 1400 hp in your Z after getting your drivers license the day before? That's what your power to weight ratio would be like.

 

I had a YZF600F, which is now called a 600R a few years back, in 2000 I think. It was a good bike. Not necessarily what I would recommend for a starter bike though. The learning curve is easier with less power on tap. You tend to scare yourself less. I think the YZF was my third street bike.

 

I know it doesn't count for anything on the internet, but I have been riding for 12 years, raced for two, taught professionally for a year, and have volunteered at I don't know how many track schools. I also have raced a bit here and there.

[tdab]

Pete84: I would recommend an EX500 hands down. Not enough power to get you in trouble, light, flickable, good fuel economy, low insurance, and enough juice to get out of trouble and have fun.

 

That's what I said!

 

Tom