l28et vs sr swap battle ! but this ones hard

[dod6av6en6]

i currently have a 73 with an l28 f54 bock p90 head with .30 bore and flat top pistons. hks 1mm head gasket. it is still running the orignal su carbs from when we swaped it to an L28. its a 5 speed and a stock rear end.

 

but the true question is. since i already have the block bored and flatty pistons to build of my existing l28 and supply it to a turbo fuel injection setup or do i swap into sr. the only reason i am asking this question is that i already have the engine in my car and may save money but it also may be more headache .

 

i want the most bang for my buck and want at least 280 hp plus!

 

any insite?

[linchpin360]

theres a magical button towards the top of your screen, it starts with an s, ends in an h, and has an earch in the middle. lol. just messin with you a bit. i've only been a member since early this year and still have seen so many conversations on this subject. if you search you will find plenty of answers to any question you may have.

[Gollum]

Turbo'ing the L28 would definately be cheaper, until you get over 300 wheel HP or so, then power becomes hard to come by.

 

Know how to weld? I'd recommend either making a custom exhaust manifold, or having one made if you can find someone to do it for cheap. This will allow you to get the turbo a bit lower and run a straighter down pipe, and also allow you to run any turbo you want, just match the flange.

 

So lets add up the parts

 

Exhaust Manifold

Turbo

Fuel Rail

Fuel Pump

Fuel Pressure Regulator

Intake Manifold

Injectors

Downpipe

Full exhaust

Intercooler

Air Piping

Blow off valve

Boost controller

Throttle Body

Throttle Linkage

 

Stock EFI:

Cylinder Head Temp Sensor

Air Flow Meter

O2 Sensor

ECU

Throttle Position Sensor

 

Megasquirt:

ECU

Quite a few sensors, don't remember them all

 

That's a lot of parts, and unless you find a turbo motor and just pull most of those parts off that motor, it's not going to be an easy task to figure it all out.

 

If you were to individually choose and source every part then I think the cost of the L28 turbo conversion would be just as expensive as getting a stock SR20DET put into the car. Main downside is that you'd be loosing all the work put into the L series already.

[JSM]

Turbo'ing the L28 would definately be cheaper, until you get over 300 wheel HP or so, then power becomes hard to come by.

 

Know how to weld? I'd recommend either making a custom exhaust manifold, or having one made if you can find someone to do it for cheap. This will allow you to get the turbo a bit lower and run a straighter down pipe, and also allow you to run any turbo you want, just match the flange.

 

So lets add up the parts

 

Exhaust Manifold

Turbo

Fuel Rail

Fuel Pump

Fuel Pressure Regulator

Intake Manifold

Injectors

Downpipe

Full exhaust

Intercooler

Air Piping

Blow off valve

Boost controller

Throttle Body

Throttle Linkage

 

Stock EFI:

Cylinder Head Temp Sensor

Air Flow Meter

O2 Sensor

ECU

Throttle Position Sensor

 

Megasquirt:

ECU

Quite a few sensors, don't remember them all

 

That's a lot of parts, and unless you find a turbo motor and just pull most of those parts off that motor, it's not going to be an easy task to figure it all out.

 

If you were to individually choose and source every part then I think the cost of the L28 turbo conversion would be just as expensive as getting a stock SR20DET put into the car. Main downside is that you'd be loosing all the work put into the L series already.

 

True, but you would need a lot of the above parts anyway along w/ the cost of the stock SR20DET. Plus all the additional Fabrication that would be needed to mount the SR20. Does the cost of the SR20 included a transmission? Drive shaft?

[Gollum]

Not much would be needed with the SR though really at those power levels. We're only talking about 300hp, easily obtained on tons of stock parts for a ST20.

 

Add boost controller and fuel and you're there.

[Challenger]

theres a magical button towards the top of your screen, it starts with an s, ends in an h, and has an earch in the middle. lol. just messin with you a bit. i've only been a member since early this year and still have seen so many conversations on this subject. if you search you will find plenty of answers to any question you may have.

 

S and H with a earch in the middle would be searchh.

 

As for his question go with the L28et, alot simpler and cheaper for someone without alot of experience and you wont have a 4 banger.

[subtle_driver]

why would you want 2 less cylinders and .8 less cubic inches? if the l28 has 8.5 to 1 compression you can turbo it and with injectors a z32 maf and modify a stock ecu www.e-mance.com it can be done. but its better just to get a turbo l28 and drop it in.

 

i dunno man, sr20's are small and annoying. a big inline 6 is rad and sounds cool. and you can bolt on parts, and find parts easy.

[logr]

why would you want 2 less cylinders and .8 less cubic inches? if the l28 has 8.5 to 1 compression you can turbo it and with injectors a z32 maf and modify a stock ecu www.e-mance.com it can be done. but its better just to get a turbo l28 and drop it in.

 

i dunno man, sr20's are small and annoying. a big inline 6 is rad and sounds cool. and you can bolt on parts, and find parts easy.

 

Gotta ask, Why are they annoying? Because they make so much power so easily, because they get so much mileage, because they are so reliable or _____________?

[Savage42]

Well, it depends on what you are really after. In the real world, torque is king! Period! My buddy ran a 400 SBC with only 285 HP but had 500 ft lbs of torque. It moves no matter what rpm, having a passenger has not affect and for autocross & daily driving, it's the way to go. If you are looking at a track car, a small turbo motor works well.

 

I like power off idle, not a motor that has nothing under 4k rpm, but to each his own! I'd turbo the bigger motor!

[subtle_driver]

Gotta ask, Why are they annoying? Because they make so much power so easily, because they get so much mileage, because they are so reliable or _____________?

 

 

they are annoying cause most peeps are pulling out the ka's to install a smaller engine that costs a lot more, and call the ka a "truck" motor. well i take the truck motor, mount a truck turbo from a cummins, and tune it, then destry the sr guy with his old crappy motor. BTW a ka will make more power than an sr with equal mods. how much tq./hp does an sr make if you take away the small turbo?

 

i dunno, i just see too many f&f crowd peepz ask me if my car has a sr. i say no. then they go,"oh" and leave in dissapointment. hahaha!

[logr]

By "equal mods" I assume you mean running a stock SR against a KA after you replace the pistons because of the tiny ring lands and after you add a turbo manifold and a turbo and jury rig a way to oil it and cool it and return the oil to the pan and after you throw away the ecu and mass air and buy new ones and get it tuned and after you buy a front mount and all the plumbing needed to make it all work. Is that the "equal mods" you are referring too? How much is a stand alone now a days anyway, 1500.00? Turbo, 1200.00? Oops, just payed for an SR that's revs like mad, makes 240ish HP and almost as much torque with NO mods, makes boost at 2200rpm, comes as a complete unit that makes it a bolt in, in one day if you've done it before,(in an SX) has readily available parts and can run forever if you only be reasonable with it.

 

I'm just pulling your strings. I like both engines but an SR is way easier and man they run well. The revs are right there. It has plenty of torque unless you want it in a 2.5 ton something. I built a turbo KA first. It ran well but then I put an SR in a different car and it was night and day. I sold the KA and have been running an SR since. I autox it heavily at 3 clubs, put on 3 sets of race tires this year, race against cars with twice the power and always do well. The car and engine are never an issue. New vettes overheat and the SR just purrs. I never even open the hood at autox. We even double drive many times with no heating or anything else issues. It's amazing to me how I am classed as one of the "power" cars. People think I have 400 WHP and I normally run less than half that. At autox with 275 tires, I normally can't run more than 10lbs or the power is just too hard to control. It is a 2500 lb car. We set the boost gain at 5% to slow down the boost or turn the controller off. Didn't mean to go on this long but I grew up with big blocks when boosting cars didn't have anything to do with turbos. I've had many very hot cars but I still can't believe what a 2L can do. LOGR

[subtle_driver]

By "equal mods" I assume you mean running a stock SR against a KA after you replace the pistons because of the tiny ring lands and after you add a turbo manifold and a turbo and jury rig a way to oil it and cool it and return the oil to the pan and after you throw away the ecu and mass air and buy new ones and get it tuned and after you buy a front mount and all the plumbing needed to make it all work. Is that the "equal mods" you are referring too? How much is a stand alone now a days anyway, 1500.00? Turbo, 1200.00? Oops, just payed for an SR that's revs like mad, makes 240ish HP and almost as much torque with NO mods, makes boost at 2200rpm, comes as a complete unit that makes it a bolt in, in one day if you've done it before,(in an SX) has readily available parts and can run forever if you only be reasonable with it.

 

I'm just pulling your strings. I like both engines but an SR is way easier and man they run well. The revs are right there. It has plenty of torque unless you want it in a 2.5 ton something. I built a turbo KA first. It ran well but then I put an SR in a different car and it was night and day. I sold the KA and have been running an SR since. I autox it heavily at 3 clubs, put on 3 sets of race tires this year, race against cars with twice the power and always do well. The car and engine are never an issue. New vettes overheat and the SR just purrs. I never even open the hood at autox. We even double drive many times with no heating or anything else issues. It's amazing to me how I am classed as one of the "power" cars. People think I have 400 WHP and I normally run less than half that. At autox with 275 tires, I normally can't run more than 10lbs or the power is just too hard to control. It is a 2500 lb car. We set the boost gain at 5% to slow down the boost or turn the controller off. Didn't mean to go on this long but I grew up with big blocks when boosting cars didn't have anything to do with turbos. I've had many very hot cars but I still can't believe what a 2L can do. LOGR

 

 

Ya, i know you're pulling my strings..

BTW, the stock mass air flow sensor from a single cam ka24e is the same one used with the sr turbo engines. also... the stock ka ecu is not thrown away. if anyone has one that they want to throw away i will pay it to be shipped to me! install a daughter board and you can tune it to use anything you want! only a fool would buy stand alone when this can be had at under $300(if i had somone else do it). BTW, ! paid less than $100 to oil my turbo with ss feed line, and welded a return bung on my pan with silicone drain back tube. The stock t25 turbo that comes stock for the sr motor is way too small and chokes the KA, so a larger turbo is needed. A turbo that flows enough to make well over 500hp $400... a fully rebuilt holset hy35w with 10cm exhaust housing. spools at 2,500rpm. and hits hard! or a custom built t3/t4 garrett with 360 degree bearings from a turbo shop for under $600. Plumbing for front mount... Less than $200. and a cheap FMIC... a walbro fuel pump injectors...

basicly for around $1500 give or take depending on what you go with...

I have a setup that cost me this much. I'm making over 320hp with a stock block with 180k miles. and daily driving it for 2 years and autocrossing and drag racing. its got over 50 passes and 5 autox races with this setup on a stock ka. I guess the SR can "Rev like mad" but i prefer making more power than an sr with a ka.

 

if you don't do it right, it won;t work. stick to sr's cause they are bolt on turbo. don't ghetto rig any ka's anymore please.

 

install of the KA approved turbo back in the day. I haven't been beat by a sr with bolt ons' and no-one wants to race me with their sr. even tho it redlines a couple hundred rpm's higher, and i spent less money. i wonder why? Please visit KA-t.org educate yourself about ka-t power. not a throw away motor! go ahead and call it a "Truck motor", I know i used to! I used to make fun of them truck ka motors.

[AK-Z]

why would you want 2 less cylinders and .8 less cubic inches?

cubic inches? Its liters (think metric, remember japanese car)

 

they are annoying cause most peeps are pulling out the ka's to install a smaller engine that costs a lot more, and call the ka a "truck" motor.

 

The L28 is considered a "truck" engine.

 

Ya, i know you're pulling my strings..

BTW, the stock mass air flow sensor from a single cam ka24e is the same one used with the sr turbo engines. also... the stock ka ecu is not thrown away. if anyone has one that they want to throw away i will pay it to be shipped to me! install a daughter board and you can tune it to use anything you want! only a fool would buy stand alone when this can be had at under $300(if i had somone else do it). BTW, ! paid less than $100 to oil my turbo with ss feed line, and welded a return bung on my pan with silicone drain back tube. The stock t25 turbo that comes stock for the sr motor is way too small and chokes the KA, so a larger turbo is needed. A turbo that flows enough to make well over 500hp $400... a fully rebuilt holset hy35w with 10cm exhaust housing. spools at 2,500rpm. and hits hard! or a custom built t3/t4 garrett with 360 degree bearings from a turbo shop for under $600. Plumbing for front mount... Less than $200. and a cheap FMIC... a walbro fuel pump injectors...

basicly for around $1500 give or take depending on what you go with...

I have a setup that cost me this much. I'm making over 320hp with a stock block with 180k miles. and daily driving it for 2 years and autocrossing and drag racing. its got over 50 passes and 5 autox races with this setup on a stock ka. I guess the SR can "Rev like mad" but i prefer making more power than an sr with a ka.

 

if you don't do it right, it won;t work. stick to sr's cause they are bolt on turbo. don't ghetto rig any ka's anymore please.

 

install of the KA approved turbo back in the day. I haven't been beat by a sr with bolt ons' and no-one wants to race me with their sr. even tho it redlines a couple hundred rpm's higher, and i spent less money. i wonder why? Please visit KA-t.org educate yourself about ka-t power. not a throw away motor! go ahead and call it a "Truck motor", I know i used to! I used to make fun of them truck ka motors.

 

IMO its stock for stock HP and reliability. There are reasons why piston rings and piston are design differently in NA and FI applications.

 

SR = pretty much almost everything included (inless you get screwed or other reasons). engine, tranny, harnesses, computers (engine and tranny computers), most sensors, turbo (down pipe if you're lucky). and no computer tuning really needed.

 

KA (turbo)= things he would need to get; KA engine/tranny (remember he doesn't have it), injectors, maf, manifold, turbo (and all thats needed for it), down pipe, harness/computer (included with engine), then he has to pay to get the computer tuned. Then he can wait for his internals to ware prematurly and have excessive blow-by down the road. then he has to replace with $$$ internals cope with the exessive ware. Oh and shipping all the individual parts.

 

You might have to do that with an SR also, but from what I've read, you won't have to do that inless you want to hit over 300 HP.

 

Not say for him to go one way or the other, just clarifying that what "may" seem to be cost effective, may not be down the road.

 

I'm doing a KA-T build, myself. So don't think I'm hating on the KA.

[subtle_driver]

why would you want 2 less cylinders and .8 less cubic inches? if the l28 has 8.5 to 1 compression you can turbo it and with injectors a z32 maf and modify a stock ecu www.e-mance.com it can be done. but its better just to get a turbo l28 and drop it in.

 

i dunno man, sr20's are small and annoying. a big inline 6 is rad and sounds cool. and you can bolt on parts, and find parts easy.

 

 

haha, ya i said .8 cubic inches. i must have been cracking smoke. lol!

[whitechocolatelove]

or like previously posted an l28et would be the most cost effective, strongest, easiest motor to swap. it will hold up to MUCH higher power levels with stock engine components than any sr or ka and last twice as long. may not be as "cool" but who cares when youre shittin on ricky ricer in his sr swapped sx for a 1/4 of what he paid for his "silvia" conversion.

[AK-Z]

or like previously posted an l28et would be the most cost effective, strongest, easiest motor to swap. it will hold up to MUCH higher power levels with stock engine components than any sr or ka and last twice as long. may not be as "cool" but who cares when youre shittin on ricky ricer in his sr swapped sx for a 1/4 of what he paid for his "silvia" conversion.

 

You also have to consider the power/weight ratio.

 

But I do agree. You will have your car up and running, with less headaches and downtime with a L28ET.

 

PS. profanity is frowned upon by admins.

[subtle_driver]

or like previously posted an l28et would be the most cost effective, strongest, easiest motor to swap. it will hold up to MUCH higher power levels with stock engine components than any sr or ka and last twice as long. may not be as "cool" but who cares when youre shittin on ricky ricer in his sr swapped sx for a 1/4 of what he paid for his "silvia" conversion.

 

I would like to know what power levels the l28 will hold up to.

I know the ka will hold up to 400ish hp.

and I've had my ka24de at 320hp daily driver for 2 years. 20k miles... still 175psi compression at 180k miles on block. those ka24de motors are strong( talking about the japan built ones that come in the 240sx). they have oil sprayers, and block girdles. i haven;t seen that on any L-series...

I'm interested cause i am planning on a l28 swap in the future for 240z! I know someone here is getting 321hp and has over 250k miles on the stock l28!!!

[AK-Z]

I would like to know what power levels the l28 will hold up to.

I know the ka will hold up to 400ish hp.

and I've had my ka24de at 320hp daily driver for 2 years. 20k miles... still 175psi compression at 180k miles on block. those ka24de motors are strong( talking about the japan built ones that come in the 240sx). they have oil sprayers, and block girdles. i haven;t seen that on any L-series...

I'm interested cause i am planning on a l28 swap in the future for 240z! I know someone here is getting 321hp and has over 250k miles on the stock l28!!!

 

I would assume that from 250-300hp, you would have to have the motor rebuild with better parts, for reliability, on either engine.

[Bernardd]

I run a stock bottom end and dyno at 422hp and have run mid to low 11sec 1/4s for a couple of years. I've run out of fuel flow or I'd be up around the 480rwhp. I might be at the edge of what the L can take but quite a few others are up around the same level with stock bottom ends.

[Tony D]

I've had an L28 with anywhere from 275 to 350hp, depending on the boost level in my 73 240ZT since 1987. not a whimper on it, and well over 40K+ of HARD miles.

 

People who go for a ride with me in it comment that driving like me in that car is like most people's idea of throttle application at an Autocross. The chassis flexed coming off a corner one day, and cracked my windshield.

 

The L-Engine is reliable at the power level to 100K miles easily I would suspect...if not twice that.

 

Now, at 400HP, I think you decrease reliability accordingly using the stock components. Mine has stock pistons in it, no problem thusfar.

 

But much above this point, I'd likely go with something heavier in the piston department which I would forecast to withstand 500 hp levels in a turbo application the way I drive for 100K miles.

 

That's damn reliable in my book. And curiously, coincides with what Bernard has experienced.

 

People discount the L-Engine. It's a mistake. It's just most people go about modifying it in such a hamfisted way that they screw it up along the way and blame the engine and not themselves. It's not the engine's design problem if someone tuning it is an idiot. But it plays out that way because the engine never gets to tell it's side of the story.