w00t! I has teh b00st!

[Six_Shooter]

After too long (about 3 months) I finally have my 240Z running and driving again.

 

I converted from Weber dual down drafts naturally aspirated, to EFI with a turbo.

 

I'll have pictures tomorrow.

 

Specs:

1973 240Z

1981 or '82 L28 (F54/P90)

5-speed tranny from a 1981 280ZX.

280Z intake manifold, converted to O-ring injectors by my grandfather. (N47)

O-ring fuel rail, sourced from Accel, and machined by my grandfather.

30 lbs/hr injectors from a Ford Supercoupe (will likely change to larger injectors as funds allow)

280ZXT exhaust manifold, stock, with gasket matching to the turbine inlet.

GM 6.5L diesel turbo (Borg Warner)

3" exhaust, Moroso Spiral flow muffler

Walbro inline 255 L/hr fuel pump

280Z electronic dizzy, GM V6 ignition module (will convert to DIS later)

Aeromotive AFPR

Non-intercooled, but will be as soon as I weld the IC together.

1st gen DSM Bypass valve.

GM 3400 (3.4L) 56mm TB. Adaptor plate machined by my grandfather.

GM 1227749 ECM with code 59 (www.code59.org) running the whole deal.

 

SO I can take the car to Zfest tomorrow and then take my time with getting everything cleaned up, tuned and improved.

 

[Six_Shooter]

Ok, I have a couple pictures I took tonight, I'll get better pictures during the day tommorrow.

 

From this:

 

To this:

 

[v8dats]

looks great! congrats.

[Six_Shooter]

Thanks, it's brought a smile to my face tonight after lots of aggrivating days and nights working on it.

[Chemicalblue]

Looks Great! I remember when I did my swap, it was like having a totally different car.

 

On you heater hoses - shouldn't you have a bypass hose for the head return line for when you are not using the heater? I might be wrong but when the temp on your dash is switched to cold doesn't it stop the flow of coolant?

 

Have fun with the new set up!

[big-phil]

Looks good. Welcome to the (turbo) club.

[JSM]

I like where you mounted the FPR. Post some pics of the IC plumbing going underneeth if you could.

 

Re-Read, not intercooled? You running pipe in big Circle?

[Six_Shooter]

I like where you mounted the FPR. Post some pics of the IC plumbing going underneeth if you could.

 

Re-Read, not intercooled? You running pipe in big Circle?

 

Yeah basically, that's how it is right now. I could call it "BOV piping" since my BOV/bypass is mounted in front of the rad.

 

The only reason there's no IC yet, is because I haven't made it. I have the cores and the tank material, I just didn't have time fit it all and weld it before today. Z-Fest was today at Christie Lank consevation area, and there are a few things about the install that are "just for now" so that I could drive it to Z-Fest.

 

I'll take some pictures of the under the engine IC (BOV ) piping, when I have it on jack stands again, which will likely be within the next few days, since there's a couple changes I need to make that I didn't account for befre driving it.

 

I'm using the original fuel feed tube for the return, so it seemed to make the most sense to mount the regulator there.

 

I didn't add any external coolant bypass, since I have read that there is a built in bypass in the block, so that should negate the need for any external passage.

 

I've fianlly reduced the knock issues I was having to an acceptable level. and when I got back on the highway, after Zfest (I made some changes while the car was sitting), I was able to actually lay the power on, through 3 gears, and up to about 4 PSIG boost and man is this car going to fly when I get it tuned properly.

 

It pulled HARD right to 6000 RPM, I only shifted because I don't have the tune as good as I would like it yet.

 

I can tell this car is going to be so much more fun than my turbo 3.2L 1985 GMC Jimmy was.

 

I'll be going out and tuning some more tonight, I need to review the logs from the trip to Z-fest and the trip home.

 

Thanks for the compliments guys.

[Six_Shooter]

Here's a couple pictures from today.

 

 

 

[Bernardd]

what kind of signal(s) are needed for the ecu to be happy? crank + cam? stock cas? what kind of datalogging do you use? any extra pwm outputs on that ecu?

[Six_Shooter]

what kind of signal(s) are needed for the ecu to be happy? crank + cam? stock cas? what kind of datalogging do you use? any extra pwm outputs on that ecu?

 

For ignition signals, I use an L28 (non-turbo) dizzy, and use an ECM controlled GM ignition module from a 6 cylinder. Mine was pirated from a used 2.8L dizzy that was pulled from an S-10.

 

The ECM I am using is a batch fire ECM, when using 6 or 8 cylinders uses saturated outputs for the injectors, though there are more than a few people that have swapped out the sense resistors and have been able to run Peak and Hold with 6 r 8 injectors connected.. In the 4 cyl OEM application the injectors were low impedance and set as peak and hold.

 

To keep things easy, I used the GM 3400 TB, because it has the TPS and IAC built in, plus I also have a few kicking around, so it seemed like a logical choice.

 

I am using a GM knock sensor that was pulled from a 2.8 or 3.2 genII (FWD), threaded into the block on the passenger side, where it looks like a stock knock sensor might have been installed. I had to tap it for 1/4" NPT.

 

The CTS and MAT sensors are both GM parts, the CTS is what is known as a "3 wire", since it has connections for gound, a signal to the ECM and a dedicated gauge output, I'm not using the gauge output, but had the sensor from when I did have a GM temp gauge installed in the car. The MAT sensor is installed where the original cold start injector was

 

I have a GM boost control solenoid installed and attached to the engine, but I am not using it just yet, I want to make sure that I have the absolute minimum boost I can to do the initial tune, and will then move over to using the boost control solenoid, so I can have selectable boost levels at the flip of a switch, and have a tuned bin file to match.

 

For tuning, I'm using a program called Tuner Pro RT (www.tunerpro.net), which also has datalogging capabilities, I will be using it from now on I think, since I can easily convert those files to CSV and read through them easily.

I have been using a program called Scanner Pro, which is written by the same guy that wrote Tuner Pro RT (www.scannerpro.net). This is a beta release, that will in the future be integrated into Tuner Pro RT to give more GUI customizable options.

I'm trying to find a way to datalog to a standalone device, that might hold something like an SD card or something along those lines, so that I won't need a laptop in the passenger seat, but so far not much luck.

 

The hardware I'm using has come from Moates.net (www.moates.net). I am using a chip emulator called the Ostrich 2.0, along with the "Extreme ALDL" diagnostic connector interface, along with a MEMCAL adaptor (refered to as "G1").

 

Yes, there are some unused inputs and outputs. So far one of these has been used for WBO2 input, with the code that I am running (www.code59.org), that will also allow WBO2 fueling control, and can be used with auto tune. Code59 is a code that started life as the GM code $58, which was used in the Turbo Sunbirds and the Syclone/Typhoon. Code $59 has fixed some bugs in the original code, along with adding that WBO2 support and an extended and much higher resolution VE table, and actually requires a 3 BAR MAP sensor to work, even when running N/A, if you choose to do so. But for N/A I would use a different code.

The authors of $59 plan to add alky/nitrous control, along with making some other inputs and outputs available for easy integration into custom applications.

 

So far it's running well, I just need to work on it some more, and get it dialed in.

 

I will be installing an EGR on this engine eventually, and will likely use the Nissan EGR with the GM vacuum solenoid.

[LeX]

wow sounds like you know what you are doing. Good project!

[Six_Shooter]

wow sounds like you know what you are doing. Good project!

 

I'd like to believe I do. I still learn something about this stuff everytime I work with it, it's also fun.

 

[ZoomZoom]

Please forgive my ignorance but how does this compare to Megasquirt? Cheaper? I am about to swap in a stock ecu turbo setup and I'm sure I will be looking for an alternative control scheme shortly thereafter

[Six_Shooter]

Please forgive my ignorance but how does this compare to Megasquirt? Cheaper? I am about to swap in a stock ecu turbo setup and I'm sure I will be looking for an alternative control scheme shortly thereafter

 

I have not used MS, only researched it, so I can't really give a direct comparison.

 

The GM ECM for me was cheaper, since I have a few kicking around along with some harnesses to use for ECM connections, and connectors to the sensors/actuators. I also already had the tuning equipment needed, since I also tune a few friends vehicles, that use GM ECMs.

 

If real time tuning wasn't a necessity, then the GM EMS could be swapped in rather inexpensivly. The most expensive part to this seems to be the EEPROM emulator, that allows real time tuning ($180 from moates.net), the price seems to be very similar no matter what company you buy the emulator from, most seem to be serial based though, the one I have is USB based, which can also be upgraded to Bluetooth.

 

I like the GM ECM, because the ECM itself is easy to get, and most often quite inexpensive, since there are literally millions of them out there, some sitting in cars at the wreckers or on the shelves of parts houses. This is something to keep in mind if you ever have an ECM fail, feild replacment becomes easy, and cheap. With just about any aftermarket EMS it either has to be sent back, or taken home and serviced, usually disabling the vehicle for a few days to weeks. I can just pullout the MEMCAL and adaptor, install into another ECM and plug it in, I can even get that ECM any where in North America on any day of the week. FWIW, I've never had a GM ECM fail personally, thought I had, but always turned out to be something else.

 

The GM ECM has, IAC (stepper motor) control, ignition timing control, electric fan control, boost control output (when using the right code), EGR control, canister purge control (emmisions), knock sensor input, up to 3 BAR MAP input (with proper code), A/C compensation, E-fan control on with A/C request, Power steering anti-stall control, WBO2 fueling control (again, proper code), or can just input the WBO2 to the ECM to show up in the ALDL datastream for datalogging purposes, with a patch to the bin file and the datastream diagnostic definition file. Some codes will have alky/nitrous control, with other enabled inputs and outputs in the future as people work on them.

 

Tuning looks to be a bit easier with the aftermarket EMS, the GM tuning seems to be a bit cryptic, but once you get past that, and realize that there's a lot of tunable options that you really will never need to touch, then it becomes fairly easy. Most of the time it's just the VE and main spark tables that get the most changes, and any constants that need to be changed are usually only changed at first start up, or when any major changes have been made to the combo, such as BPC/BPW constants when injectors are changed, again, not too many seem to be used too often. Some GM tuners will use these little used tables and constants to help dial in lean cruise mode for better milage, or DFCO to get better idle return control (I need to work on this one a bit myself).

 

There is a lot of support out there for the GM EMS, both in hardware and information. The best source of information is on www.thirdgen.org in the DIY PROM forum, but be forewarned, you will need to dedicate a LOT of time to reading, because it doesn't seem to make sense until you start with the hands on tuning. Most things seem to be like this though. Some hardware can actually be home made, like the ALDL cable, this is the cable that allows a laptop to read what is being sent down the diagnostic link and displayed on your screen. There are simple versions called "The two transistor cable" to more involved cables that use a "MAX232" chip for the interface. I built a MAX232 based cable, and thought I burnt it out, turned out the ECM had an issue with connecting to the ALDL stream, I bought a moates.net ALDL Extreme cable anyway. Both cables seemed to work just as well. The home made cables are serial cables so you would need to have a laptop with an open serial port or a serial to USB adaptor. The moates cable is USB based.

 

If you don't care about real time tuning, you can literally be tuning a GM ECM for less than $100, by buying an EPROM programmer for about $35, sometimes cheaper (I bought a USB programmer from mcumall.com), about $20 for the parts to assemble the Two transistor ALDL cable, and a MEMCAL adaptor for between $20 and $35 depending on where you get it from and if it's new or used.

 

The software can be downloaded for free to several hundred dollars, depending on the level you will be tuning at and what "broadcast code or mask" you are using. At this point most of the desirable codes and definitions are available for free through the DIY communuity, some like code 59 have taken an original code and modified it and extended tables to work better, or give more options. There is also S_AUJP (more info on thirdgen.org), that has taken a stock code (AUJP in this case) and modified it to have some extra options and better tables, now called "Super AUJP". S_AUJP is used more in the V8 N/A crowd, code 59 is cattering more towards the forced induction crowd, but of just about any displacement now.

 

I'm very happy with how my GM ECM is running my car now, with really on a few hours to tune what I have, and need to look at the mechanical side of things right now to make sure everything actually matches up.

[jerryb]

Congrates with the TURBO

[Bernardd]

what kind of signal(s) are needed for the ecu to be happy?

 

what i meant was hall effect? sine wave? stuff like that. can it be modified to accept other signals? i believe that code was able to use the 2.3L wasted spark config as well as the syty/sunbird dizzy signal.

[Six_Shooter]

what i meant was hall effect? sine wave? stuff like that. can it be modified to accept other signals? i believe that code was able to use the 2.3L wasted spark config as well as the syty/sunbird dizzy signal.

 

 

Well, the signals that you are asking about, actually come from the ignition module. The ignition module sees the hall effect signal from the dizzy, then the signals are changed within the ICM to send back and forth to the ECM, there are 4 connections between the ECM and the ICM. One is a ground, two are "reference", one is labled "high", the other "low", these appear to be similar pulses or closer to square wave, it's been a while since I read what exactly these signals were, It's easier to just use the GM ignition module with the ECM. The fourth signal is what is called an "EST bypass", that enables or disables ECM controlled timing. This is also the wire that gets disconnected to set base timing with a dizzy.

 

The VSS can be either sine wave or hall effect, and the code I'm running has a selectable flag for changing this.

 

Yes, the wasted spark DIS can be used with this code, there are just a few constants that need to be changed to match, not sure that anyone has done it yet with $59, but it has been done with other code and worked fine, once ironed out. The signals between the ICM and the ECM are virtually identical between a dizzy and DIS, using the GM components.

 

I'm sure patches could be made to use other systems with the GM ECM, but I haven't researched that myself. I have considered looking at using EDIS with it, but I have all or most of the GM components anyway and electrnically speaking would be easier to use that.

[Daeron]

Video? I want to hear that big snail breathe through a moroso unit.... Any pictures of the specific turbo you installed, not mounted in the vehicle?? (it looks impressive )

[Six_Shooter]

I hope to get some video soon. I'm still tuning it, and had to start over yesterday, after discovering that my IAC hole in the TB was blocked by the gasket. That explained why my IAC counts were so high and there was no change with how the car ran, no matter what the IAC did, or what I did with it.

 

I may take an idle vid later, like I did with the car just before I took it apart, literally I took a short video, then minutes after I shut it off, started taking the carbs off. I had the Moroso on it then too.

 

Anyway, here are some turbo pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's a pretty large turbo, physically, and seems to be flow wise. I knew that the turbine wheel was pretty large, but so far it seems that I really need to get the Rs up to get some positive intake pressure out of it. I am only running on the wastegate actuator at this point, since I want to get the base tune pretty dialed in before going any higher than I currently am. The spring seems to be limited to about 3.5 PSIG, I know the spring itself is a 2 PSIG spring, but I think I might have tightened up the actuator a bit more than I intended. *whistles* The actuator was pirated from a Garret turbo originally used on a Pontiac Sunbird. I then made the extension that threaded onto the actuator to the wastegate flapper, from some brake line tubing, a flat piece of 1/8" mild steel and the threaded section also from the Garrett actuator.

 

*EDIT* I was just looking through a log from last night, and I seem to be a bit higher than I previously noticed with boost PSIG, at 4675 RPM, my log shows 4.48 PSIG. So I'm not sure if that's boost creep at this point, or if it's it's just taking a while to spool up, in a way I'm hping that's boost creep, or possibly the wastegate just not being able to fluctuate enough at low boost pressures to control shaft RPM, I'm really hoping that boost threshold will be lower once, I start controlling boost via the ECM. I guess it's time to get a low pressure regulator out and test the actuator opening pressure.