garvice Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Ok Guys, I am in the market for a Crimping tool for these type of connections It is what will be on my LS1 Coils and on my injectors as well as my other sensors. I see them often referred to as weatherpack connectors What crimping pliers to people have (Brand/Model) and what did they cost? Are you happy with them. Cheers guys Brad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Ok Guys, I am in the market for a Crimping tool for these type of connections It is what will be on my LS1 Coils and on my injectors as well as my other sensors. I see them often referred to as weatherpack connectors What crimping pliers to people have (Brand/Model) and what did they cost? Are you happy with them. Cheers guys Brad Paladin 8000 series with the open barrel die set, about $45 for the tool and $20 for the dies. They work very well. There are actually 2 crimping actions that take place at the same time with the Paladin crimpers I have. A pin release tool is not a bad idea also, actually Radio Shack has a nice one #274-223. http://www.galco.com/scripts/cgiip.exe/wa/wcat/webpromo2.htm?promo=720PALA8000 http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062447&cp= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 If you can't find these locally, do a web search. They are about the best available today that I could find. They work good and were about $30. I have some that I like better, but they are about 40 years old now and not available anymore. It does require a little bit of finese and practice to achieve perfect crimps. Edit - I think I like Dave's suggestion better, looks like a nice tool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 It can be done without the tool. But a proper connection that will not pull loose needs the proper crimp tool. You also need to practice with the tool to ensure you get a well set crimp. There is also a pin pusher to release the pins from the sockets. This is a smart purchase unless you never make mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geezer Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 This is the business end of a crimper made by Essex terminal that I have used for over 40 years. They turn up on Ebay for cheap quite often and will do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughdogz Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I'd get a weatherpack crimper that does two crimps in one. The one for the wire has open barrel that "folds" the terminal, but does is with parallel jaws, not like a pair of pliers. The other crimp is for the seal, which makes a perfectly round crimp. There are other variations like metri-pack that uses a different crimper... Crimping tool ($130) http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/402 Removal tool ($5 Good advice, BJ) http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/421 I'd recommend a spare removal tool too, since I found they can be bent pretty easily. The crimpers work great...even better once you have a lot of practice Hope this helped... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted October 26, 2008 Author Share Posted October 26, 2008 Wow, thanks guys, lots of good suggestions. And most importantly a lot cheaper than the $600-1200 that AMP (Tyco) want for theirs. I knew there had to be something that would do a good job for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 It can be done without the tool. But a proper connection that will not pull loose needs the proper crimp tool. You also need to practice with the tool to ensure you get a well set crimp. There is also a pin pusher to release the pins from the sockets. This is a smart purchase unless you never make mistakes. Actually a set of needle nose pliers works pretty good. I did the engine hanress for my dad's 911 this way, did them all by hand, then soldered the connects so they would not ever "pull loose" and short out. Came out very nice. It really doesn't take that long to do either, did it on a piece of cardboard while watching mythbusters at my place. lol. I would buy a tool however if you plan on doing this often. I plan on doing this for the wiring harness after seeing how well his came out and some buddies of mine so I'll probably end up buying one. Just letting you know for one motor you can easily do it yourself. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Actually a set of needle nose pliers works pretty good. I did the engine hanress for my dad's 911 this way, did them all by hand, then soldered the connects so they would not ever "pull loose" and short out. Came out very nice. It really doesn't take that long to do either, did it on a piece of cardboard while watching mythbusters at my place. lol. -Ed This brings up a good question, Is it OK to solder? what and when? Doing a Google search there are 2 camps some say yes and some say no. I know that if the solder wicks up the conductor any vibration can lead to the wire fracturing and a failure over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayz Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Check this one out, It is the one I have, I should have bought all the dies. In my opinion, it is a very good tool, I love it. Scroll to the bottom of the page http://www.vintageconnections.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Nismo280z Thanks for the tip, although, I am a fan of using the right tools for the job. Might cost a bit more up front, but at least it makes the job pleasurable and you are confident it won't stuff up. About soldering connections. I am still on the fence with this one. I prefer to run a single wire with terminal crimps. If I have to splice wires I prefer to crimp rather than solder. I am still not sold on the idea of soldering a crimped join. I can see both sides of the argument. Just havent made up my mind about it yet. I thought I would go with the Delphi unit (since they make the crimps). http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/402 But I am having a hard time finding a Delphi Supplier in Australia (seems stupid). Sent a email off to see if waytek will send one to Australia, just waiting on a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I thought I would go with the Delphi unit (since they make the crimps). http://order.waytekwire.com/productdetail/M37/402 But I am having a hard time finding a Delphi Supplier in Australia (seems stupid). Sent a email off to see if waytek will send one to Australia, just waiting on a response. Here is another supplier of the Weatherpack terminals and tools. http://www.sherco-auto.com/cg.htm I have bought from them and was happy with their service. You might contact them about shipping to to Australia. Here is a eBay seller that has what looks like a kit with the Delphi crimpers. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/160pc-Weather-Pack-Weatherpack-KIT-CRIMPER-PIN-TOOL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1207Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem320313029536QQitemZ320313029536 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 cheers mate, will have to look into those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCchris Posted November 9, 2008 Share Posted November 9, 2008 Another source: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=WEATHERPACK As if you don't already have a bunch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby260 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I've been doing electrical on amateur race cars for some time now. Here is what I was taught about connections: (Doesn't mean I'm right) -Never solder a connection meant for crimping -Always use the right crimper for the type of pins (no pliers) -Splices should be crimped with adhesive heat-shrink, for strain relief and environmental protection -The only solder in the car should be on PCBs, Multi-link splices or Solder splices for cable shields. -Every connector should have some form of positive lock. In the case of spade/bullet/screw-clamp connections. Friction is not enough. These connectors should NOT BE SEEN in any sort of high reliability application (or ever on a race car). Things I Have seen. -Spade connector on fuse-block falls off due to vibration. Fuel lift pump stops. Dropped out of race. -Screw-Clamp connector on back of switch works itself loose due to vibration. Wire disconnects entire circuit stops working. Ended testing for the day. -A Deutsch Autosport connector (solid crimp pins and everything) was used as the firewall connector. Someone used the wrong crimper on the pins, during the race, wires pulled from the connector and we lost and injector and a gearbox sensor. Food for thought: Commercial Aviation and Military standards both mandate crimping only (solid pins, radial crimping)..you will never find a solder joint in an airplane or any military (apart from PCB's, even then there are rules about component height for vibration). Commercial Automotive uses pressed pins and crimping in all of their connections, once again, no solder. In the event of the need for a multiwire splice, they use splice connectors. Automotive wire (SAE J1128) is multi-stranded to allow for sharp radius bends and flexibility. If you solder the wire, it becomes solid. Sharp radii, flex and strain at the junction between the solder and the individual strands WILL LEAD to a compromised joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Kirby I can compleely agree with what you have said. It is correct but not something that cannot be deviated from at all. Solder connections are usually reserved for wires that carry high frequency signals. In that case the connectors sheild the wires from interference and serve as high quality strain reliefs. The S-30 fuse panels and internal splices are often a source of heat and failures on these old cars. Many people solder the rivets on the back of the fuse panels and solder the factory crimps. Someone who has a lot of skill with a soldering station can do a very good job without stiffening the wires too far from the splice. Typical heat-shrink can properly protect his kind of splice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I think for a hobby driven car that will probably see limited use and mileage you are giving up nothing by soldering over a crimp. Just use the right shrink tubing to act as a strain relief. I generally "crimp" where I can, but if I don't have the tool and I can't make a perfect crimp, I'll solder. I've never had a wire fatigue fail on me. Besides, we aren't at 30,000 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryb Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I agree. I used these connectors for my build and any where I wanted a but of extra assurance that everything will hold...I lightly soldered. I didnt have the correct crimping tool so I used small needle nose pliers and reading specs to help me see. Its amazing how tight the crimps were! But a dab of solder gave me a warm a fuzzy! I think for a hobby driven car that will probably see limited use and mileage you are giving up nothing by soldering over a crimp. Just use the right shrink tubing to act as a strain relief. I generally "crimp" where I can, but if I don't have the tool and I can't make a perfect crimp, I'll solder. I've never had a wire fatigue fail on me. Besides, we aren't at 30,000 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted November 14, 2008 Author Share Posted November 14, 2008 Well since you are all wondering, I bought some OEM crimpers from these guys http://www.keefeperformance.com/weatherpack_connectors.html Only decent ones I found in Australia where $600 or $920. Infact even Narva (wouldn't consider them that great) wanted $280 for their non-ratcheting crimpers. I agree with Kirby, if you can get the right tool, the job is always much better, and if Delphi can't make a crimper that will crimp their own terminal, then who can??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARZ_ Posted November 14, 2008 Share Posted November 14, 2008 I have this one http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide08-11.html with the dies at the bottom of the page 30-599 also Frys electronics sells same crimper and the dies but I couldn't find the exact ones online. It has an over center cam on the handle that makes it easier to get that last little oomph and has an adjustable stop for so you dont smash the hell out of it. Trust me you can smash the hell out of them so its nice to have that stop. I agree you will need to practice on a few to get good at it and then cut and crimp away. I love all the sources for Weather pack kits and terminals. When a harness is all finished, with these they look so nice. Also checkout this place, lots of stuff but it doesn't look like as good of prices as others. http://www.delcity.net/delcity/servlet/catalog?parentid=8598&page=1&new=y Also most NAPA's have that stuff but make sure you ask the guy that knows because they keep that stuff hidden behind the shelf and the new kid wont even know they have it. Actually the cheapest way to do this is buy a crap load of these And go to the junk yard and cut the connectors off of a male and female set that look like they will fit your needs. Leave them connected because sometimes they are keyed uniquely (meaning a male flat 4 wont necessairly mate to another female flat 4 off of a different car) sometimes they have little tabs on the inside that will keep them from engaging if they came from different typed of cars. Take them home take the metal terminals out then put them in the dishwasher, and they come out nice and clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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